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LONDON -- Reports have emerged that two students, returning after holidays from Kerala have been deported on the basis that they have violated the working hour norms set out for students by the Home Office.
Deportation of students on account of working more than 20 hours was something which we have just heard of before, but it is now evident as there is first hand information that two Keralite students were sent off after their visa being cancelled. One of them was sent off from the Heathrow airport and the other one from Gatwick (he must have mistakenly thought it a safer port).
One of them who arrived at the airport in the evening was sent back forcefully next day morning. They had to go through the agony of interrogation, detention and at the end a forceful sent-off without being allowed to covey information outside the airport.
According to the reports he was caught red handed by the immigration officials with regard to him working for more than the allotted hours and their records revealed even his nature of contract with his employer.
Ironically both of them had Visas till mid 2008. The big question remains how can they regain their certificates and other stuffs they left in the UK.
The incidents show blatantly the sharing of information between the Inland Revenue Department and the Immigration and Nationality Directorate to keep a check on the violation of immigration rules. This also shows the tightening up of immigration rules for students.
The amount of National Insurance (NI) contributions are been verified by the Home Office, and in any case unfortunately if the data goes against the permitted working hours, termination of leave seems imminent. This is what would have happened in the above cases.
The immigration rules which a student is supposed to skip through before applying for leave specifically forbids the community to work for more than 20 hours a week during term time. Students are banned from doing business or taking full time employment unless it is been a part of curriculum which lead them to graduation.
This all points out to the intention of Home Office while granting student leave, it is for the sole purpose of attainment of UK education. (let alone the worthiness of the same, which we can discuss later in other occasion).
Students need to be aware that the Home Office will not necessarily track down persons who have worked for more than 20 hours when they are in the UK. The individual's records are checked either when they approach the Home office for renewal of visas or when they go for holidays and return, which is the case here with the two students.
The students who have returned to India has advised their mates here, "It is to be noted that Home office is not to be underestimated. Such a view is erroneous. We are monitored at every action. We are perpetually under their scanner. Our escapes are their allowances and not their mistakes. Any one of us can be the next in queue if not sooner surely later".
Totally agree to this. I have received exactly the same information from someone before, who knew the details.Dawie wrote: Therefore realistically Inland Revenue, and therefore the Home Office, can only really build up a picture of your tax affairs at the end of each tax year. But even then they have no way of knowing how many hours you have worked.
Bear in mind the 20 hour rule does not apply during holidays when students may work as many hours as they wish.
I agree, a tip-off is the most likely reason for these people getting busted.Jeff Albright wrote:Totally agree to this. I have received exactly the same information from someone before, who knew the details.Dawie wrote: Therefore realistically Inland Revenue, and therefore the Home Office, can only really build up a picture of your tax affairs at the end of each tax year. But even then they have no way of knowing how many hours you have worked.
Bear in mind the 20 hour rule does not apply during holidays when students may work as many hours as they wish.
So I gather it would have been very difficult for the Home Office to get to those guys without a tip-off.
Yeah well obviously I didn't mean keep all your payslips from the past 10 years. Of course it is recent payslips I am referring to.raniwza wrote:WOW!! I am impressed on how much responds we are getting from this topic - The reason I put this topic forward is because there are so many rules that we get confused ourselves.
I am considering to apply for a permanent residence status based under 10 years long residence. And I have a few friends who'd already got them. Looking at their cases, they have been living in the UK under different visas; spouse visa, student and working holidays visas-i have wondered how would Home Office manage to see if their status during 10 years are violated because they had lived under different rules including that 20 hour rule?
Furthermore, how would you know if somebody is on holiday or not? Different courses certainly have different length of structure-i know a few courses run 3 months study and 3 months holidays etc. How would you consider a course start or finish if different courses start or finish differently? And how would you justify (my cousin) who had finished her course in December and was given clearance until July for a graduation day? Can she work full time during that 7 months (no study commitment whatsoever)!
In regards to payslips, why would you want to keep all of your monthly or weekly records unless if they are recent employment? Who would bother to keep tap? Surely you would have salary calculated on your P60 yearly but there are no indication of hours and how much you are being paid per hour?
Is this why we have different outcomes for same application and circumstances - at discretionary of case worker? Does it mean bias in the system?
Someone asked me this question yesterday and since I was no accountant I referred this to my CA younger brother. He collaborated the above and also said that, the Information for a tax year is not available to the IR until the end of the tax year i.e in April. So in short, the BIA cannot tell how many hours an individual is working until they receive such info. But he also mentioned that, they can get IR contributions from previous years and used that for their estimates and there lie the beast of catching up with people.Dawie wrote:The information you see on your payslip is not the same information that the Inland Revenue sees. The information that Inland Revenue sees is more or less what you see on your P60 form at the end of each tax year.
Furthermore, although your employer has to hand over the PAYE tax that they collect from you every month, Inland Revenue has no idea what proportion of the all the PAYE tax your employer hands over to them is allocated to each employee until the end of the tax year when all the P60's are handed in.
Therefore realistically Inland Revenue, and therefore the Home Office, can only really build up a picture of your tax affairs at the end of each tax year. But even then they have no way of knowing how many hours you have worked.
Bear in mind the 20 hour rule does not apply during holidays when students may work as many hours as they wish.
But if a student has earnings of say 30k pa visible to the IR there's a fair chance more than 20hrs pw were worked to earn that amount.jes2jes wrote:Someone asked me this question yesterday and since I was no accountant I referred this to my CA younger brother. He collaborated the above and also said that, the Information for a tax year is not available to the IR until the end of the tax year i.e in April. So in short, the BIA cannot tell how many hours an individual is working until they receive such info. But he also mentioned that, they can get IR contributions from previous years and used that for their estimates and there lie the beast of catching up with people.Dawie wrote:The information you see on your payslip is not the same information that the Inland Revenue sees. The information that Inland Revenue sees is more or less what you see on your P60 form at the end of each tax year.
Furthermore, although your employer has to hand over the PAYE tax that they collect from you every month, Inland Revenue has no idea what proportion of the all the PAYE tax your employer hands over to them is allocated to each employee until the end of the tax year when all the P60's are handed in.
Therefore realistically Inland Revenue, and therefore the Home Office, can only really build up a picture of your tax affairs at the end of each tax year. But even then they have no way of knowing how many hours you have worked.
Bear in mind the 20 hour rule does not apply during holidays when students may work as many hours as they wish.
Where did you get this 40 hrs line? I understand that there is 20 hrs rule during term time but full time during holiday or term break.raniwza wrote:
that international student can work 40 hours a week when there are no classes i.e term break or when completing a dissertation period?
Any thoughts?
Any one would like to clarify if this is not 40 hrs but full time hours therefore there is no restriction on hours during vacation.Students over the age of 16 who are on code 2 conditions may take part-time or full
time vacation work without needing to seek the permission of the local Jobcentre.
Similarly they will be able to take up work placements which are part of a sandwich
course or to undertake internship placements without the need to obtain permission
from Work Permits (UK).
Students should not work for more than 20 hours a week during term time, except
where a work placement meets the definition of a sandwich course or internship
(please see paragraphs 18.2 and 18.3 below for these definitions). They may work
full time during their vacation period and during the additional 2 or 4 months following
completion of their studies whilst waiting for their examination results, prior to
attending their graduation ceremony or before commencement of their new course. A
student must not engage in business, self-employment or the provision of services as
a professional sports person or entertainer. A student is not permitted to pursue a
career by filling a permanent full-time vacancy.
Isn't there the EU restriction on working week, 48 hours?sashank wrote:Where did you get this 40 hrs line? I understand that there is 20 hrs rule during term time but full time during holiday or term break.raniwza wrote:
that international student can work 40 hours a week when there are no classes i.e term break or when completing a dissertation period?
Any thoughts?
As per the april/07 IDI, Chapter 3,Section 3Any one would like to clarify if this is not 40 hrs but full time hours therefore there is no restriction on hours during vacation.Students over the age of 16 who are on code 2 conditions may take part-time or full
time vacation work without needing to seek the permission of the local Jobcentre.
Similarly they will be able to take up work placements which are part of a sandwich
course or to undertake internship placements without the need to obtain permission
from Work Permits (UK).
Students should not work for more than 20 hours a week during term time, except
where a work placement meets the definition of a sandwich course or internship
(please see paragraphs 18.2 and 18.3 below for these definitions). They may work
full time during their vacation period and during the additional 2 or 4 months following
completion of their studies whilst waiting for their examination results, prior to
attending their graduation ceremony or before commencement of their new course. A
student must not engage in business, self-employment or the provision of services as
a professional sports person or entertainer. A student is not permitted to pursue a
career by filling a permanent full-time vacancy.
Thanking in advance
SAS
I think only the French pay much attention to that. And it's 35 hours, isn't it?Wanderer wrote:Isn't there the EU restriction on working week, 48 hours?sashank wrote:Where did you get this 40 hrs line? I understand that there is 20 hrs rule during term time but full time during holiday or term break.raniwza wrote:
that international student can work 40 hours a week when there are no classes i.e term break or when completing a dissertation period?
Any thoughts?
As per the april/07 IDI, Chapter 3,Section 3Any one would like to clarify if this is not 40 hrs but full time hours therefore there is no restriction on hours during vacation.Students over the age of 16 who are on code 2 conditions may take part-time or full
time vacation work without needing to seek the permission of the local Jobcentre.
Similarly they will be able to take up work placements which are part of a sandwich
course or to undertake internship placements without the need to obtain permission
from Work Permits (UK).
Students should not work for more than 20 hours a week during term time, except
where a work placement meets the definition of a sandwich course or internship
(please see paragraphs 18.2 and 18.3 below for these definitions). They may work
full time during their vacation period and during the additional 2 or 4 months following
completion of their studies whilst waiting for their examination results, prior to
attending their graduation ceremony or before commencement of their new course. A
student must not engage in business, self-employment or the provision of services as
a professional sports person or entertainer. A student is not permitted to pursue a
career by filling a permanent full-time vacancy.
Thanking in advance
SAS
Dunno how's applied tho - I do loads of hours cos I'm a contractor!
Are you serious?zara wrote:if a person has ni number and is overstayed can he still work or he will get caught cos he worked on his NI will that trigger anything
If he's overstayed he's in trouble and if he's working too he's in double trouble.zara wrote:if a person has ni number and is overstayed can he still work or he will get caught cos he worked on his NI will that trigger anything