Best strategy for moving to Ireland with non-EU spouse

[helixblue]

So, I've accepted an offer to relocate to Dublin through the large company that I work for. I've been reading these forums and have seen how much of a pain in the mule it's been for people with non-EU spouses to get residency. I'm an EU (Swedish) citizen living in the US, and have been married to my American wife for the last 4 months. We plan to live in Dublin for at least two years, with both of us holding a job (and no children).

So far as I understand things, the best strategy in this case is for my wife to:

* Arrive in Ireland under a standard tourist visa (Stamp 3)
* Immediately apply for residency (Stamp 4)
* Seek a job and get a work permit for 6-24 months (Stamp 1)
* Hope that the Stamp 4 other-EU-country thing is worked out in the courts before she gets a rejection letter.

If she does not manage to find a job before the 90-day tourist visa is up, do they just kick her out? That doesn't seem to be any way to live.

Thanks again for all of your help. This is a far larger labyrinth than I expected!

[microlab]

Don`t apply with form EU1.
As we already know couples that werent living in another EU country were refused.
I would advise you to use "old system",thats how I applied in the past for my wife(successfully)

Your cover letter(explaining situation)
Both passports
Job contract
Letter from company lawyer(if applicable)
Letter from your company stating that you were offered job in Dublin
Payslips
Bank Statements
Rent/accommodation contract
Marriage certificate

[helixblue]

Don`t apply with form EU1.
As we already know couples that werent living in another EU country were refused.
I would advise you to use "old system",thats how I applied in the past for my wife(successfully)

I can't seem to find any information on the 'old system' method. Does it have a specific name I can search with, or do you have any links to pages with more information?

[microlab]

I can't seem to find any information on the 'old system' method.

Welcome to Ireland
When I was living in Asia I got a letter from Irish Consulate telling me which steps to take once I was in Ireland with my wife.

[BigAppleWoodenShoe]

Well, we're still in the labyrinth, nobody has found an exit yet.
The people who have found the exit, can't explain how they got there.

I am totally confused as to what the rules are for you and I, some people get accepted, some not.

One thing I know is that it will take time and patience, if your wife works in a wide field than I think your wife has a lot of options in Dublin, the best way is to take the work-permit path, if you have a work-permit, you can stay. Forget about residency because nobody has a straight answer.

[archigabe]

I can't seem to find any information on the 'old system' method.

When I was living in Asia I got a letter from Irish Consulate telling me which steps to take once I was in Ireland with my wife.

I think Microlab's wife received the stamp 4 before the E.U 1 regulation came into force.
He writes elsewhere

My wife was granted twice.This was before all this EU1 fiasco.Basicaly she got the letter from EU traety section confirming her residence status in Ireland.With that letter we went to GNIB where she was issued card and got stamp 4 in her passport.

[microlab]

I think Microlab's wife received the stamp 4 before the E.U 1 regulation came into force. [

Yes, thats correct Gabriel.

My thinking behind all this that if you apply with the EU1 you`d be asking for 5 years residence for your partner.In present condition is obvious that Irish Immigration do not issue those unless couple lived elsewhere in the EU.If you ask for something lesser you may get it.

Its unfortunate situation for many because as we know the system is not transparent nor straight forward.I think this aproach maybe is the way forward.

[helixblue]

So, if the visitor visa is up within 90 days.. could she just fly to the US for the weekend and come back and renew the 90 days visa to continue looking for jobs?

[JAJ]

So, I've accepted an offer to relocate to Dublin through the large company that I work for. I've been reading these forums and have seen how much of a pain in the mule it's been for people with non-EU spouses to get residency. I'm an EU (Swedish) citizen living in the US, and have been married to my American wife for the last 4 months. We plan to live in Dublin for at least two years, with both of us holding a job (and no children).

Where in Dublin is the job based? If in the northern suburbs, is it possible to live across the border in Northern Ireland? (then you could sponsor your wife under the U.K. visa system).

Also, are you on a green card in the United States?

[helixblue]

Where in Dublin is the job based? If in the northern suburbs, is it possible to live across the border in Northern Ireland? (then you could sponsor your wife under the U.K. visa system).

Also, are you on a green card in the United States?

The job is in downtown, so I think it'd be a bit of a commute to be in NI. I'm on green card in the United States. Thanks for the ideas though

[JAJ]

The job is in downtown, so I think it'd be a bit of a commute to be in NI. I'm on green card in the United States. Thanks for the ideas though

Have you thought about the consequences for your green card once you're no longer living in the U.S.?

Since 2001, Swedish citizens can have dual citizenship.

[BigAppleWoodenShoe]

It won't be a problem having your wife with you for the first 10 months, pending the application she can stay in Ireland and the application takes ~10 months at least, although she cannot move to the USA and back without you and a lot of hassle.
She just can't get a job for which she cannot be sponsored, ie. being a secretary is not enough, if she is a medical physician, it is much easier for her to get a work-permit. My wife is currently volunteering parttime at the university here, she could get paid, but a parttime job is not enough to be sponsored for a work permit.
So unless your wife has a degree in something for which there is a need in Dublin, it would be hard to keep her here past the 10 month boundary.

[Platinum]

So, if the visitor visa is up within 90 days.. could she just fly to the US for the weekend and come back and renew the 90 days visa to continue looking for jobs?

Well, technically it is illegal to look for work on a visitor's visa. But that shouldn't be a problem, because they probably won't give her a visitor's visa, anyway. When I came into the country with my EU husband, they gave me a one-month stamp that said "join spouse" on it and gave me a month to report to the GNIB. Who can't do anything, so ignore that part.

As long as you have submitted the EU1 form, she can live in the country legally. However, although she is technically legal, they will give no proof of this- no passport stamp, no GNIB card, nothing. So after that one month stamp expires, it will seem like she's here illegally. But technically she will be legal while they process the EU1.

She should be able to look for a job and apply for a work permit (one year, non-renewable) from the DETE as the spouse of an EU citizen. I'm not sure what BAWS has been told, but I believe there are no restrictions on type of employment for this work permit. It's not the kind of work permit where they have to prove that no one in the EU can do the job. A poster here called Static got one as the spouse of an EU citizen. So technically, if she got a job offer as a secretary, she should be able to apply, free, for this work permit.

(This is no insult to BAWS: As you will soon learn, although there are certain rules and laws set in place, none of the people you will deal with in the Irish government will actually be aware of all of them. So there will be lots of times when you'll know more than they, and when you won't be able to convince them of the real laws. It's the luck of the draw whether you get someone who knows what they're doing.)

With the one year work permit, your spouse should be able to get her passport stamped for the year, and then you'll just have to hope that the DoJ gets this all sorted out by then!

[BigAppleWoodenShoe]

I know this spousal work permit, but am still confused with it. It is for spouse of work-permit holders. We Europeans don't need a work permit and therefore don't have one. A requirement of the document is:
• A copy of the registration card, issued by the Garda National Immigration Bureau, of the existing employment permit holder.

But none of this matters, you will still need a company to sponsor you, and it is more likely that a high-paying job will help you than just being a secretary. Those employers will rather go with the Irish equivalent of your wife, because, just like us, they don't no what is going on.

I can only tell you things that are black and white on paper. Some people like you and me have been granted their residence card, but because I haven't heard a good reason why they were accepted, I am not going to tell you that you will get a residence card.

[Platinum]

I agree it will be harder to find a job if you need a work permit, any work permit. As soon as they hear that you require one, they'll probably throw your application away. Your wife will have to be a good salesperson for herself.

Here's the link for the spouse of an EU citizen, by the way; no GNIB card needed for the application:
http://www.entemp.ie/labour/workpermits/marriedtoeu.htm

Of course, to repeat what everyone has said: this is the law, but there's no guarantee that your particular application or question will be dealt with by someone who knows it!

[yankeegirl]

Where in Dublin is the job based? If in the northern suburbs, is it possible to live across the border in Northern Ireland?

This could be possible if you were willing to consider a border town like Newry. My sister-in-law lives in South Dublin and commutes there 3x a week for school. I'll admit, it is a bit of a commute (1hr 20 min or so by train which goes right into Connolly Station in Dublin) but your wife would be in Northern Ireland and able to work in the UK right away with a UK EEA Family Permit. And if you could stick it out for 6 months or so, you could then make the EU1 application for your wife to live in the Republic of Ireland having satisfied the requirement of living in another EU member state.

The family permit would be applied for in the States and is pretty hassle-free. She would be able to work right away and there wouldn't be months of waiting without knowing the outcome.

[walrusgumble]

Where in Dublin is the job based? If in the northern suburbs, is it possible to live across the border in Northern Ireland?

This could be possible if you were willing to consider a border town like Newry. My sister-in-law lives in South Dublin and commutes there 3x a week for school. I'll admit, it is a bit of a commute (1hr 20 min or so by train which goes right into Connolly Station in Dublin) but your wife would be in Northern Ireland and able to work in the UK right away with a UK EEA Family Permit. And if you could stick it out for 6 months or so, you could then make the EU1 application for your wife to live in the Republic of Ireland having satisfied the requirement of living in another EU member state.

The family permit would be applied for in the States and is pretty hassle-free. She would be able to work right away and there wouldn't be months of waiting without knowing the outcome.

and on the bright side at least property would be cheaper (after converting to euro) in a place like newry. look at it this way, many people try and get out of the big smoke (dublin) because the price of living is rediculous. many workers (irish included) live in areas or places known as commuter belts. for many it takes up to 2 hours each way to get to work when you consider traffic congestions etc (at least the trains to the north are nicer and comfortable). i could be wrong as i was never there but doesn't take around that time to get to one part of eg new york city to another at peak times? this might be the quickest and cheapest solution , despite the hardship and Idiot spammer , i

[Zucker]

So, if the visitor visa is up within 90 days.. could she just fly to the US for the weekend and come back and renew the 90 days visa to continue looking for jobs?

I would really like to know the answer to this

[archigabe]

Or they could go to GNIB and apply for the stamp3 permission to remain. It's entirely upto your luck whether the people at the counter decide to give you the stamp.

[Dawie]

Well, technically it is illegal to look for work on a visitor's visa. But that shouldn't be a problem, because they probably won't give her a visitor's visa, anyway.

There is nothing illegal about looking for a job on a visitor's visa. People are issued visitors visas to come to Ireland to attend job interviews all the time from other countries as well. However it would be illegal to start working on a visitor's visa.

[archigabe]

Well, I came to Ireland 2 years ago from the U.S to join my girlfriend on a visitor's visa.I did find someone to sponsor my work visa,but when I went to my home county to apply for the work visa, the embassy conveniently put my application on hold till i lost the job...the worst part was they denied me a second visit visa to visit my girlfriend again. So we had to wait till we got married to be together which was a year later.So I would not advice this route. The Irish government does not belong to a modern Europe...

[Dawie]

Well, I came to Ireland 2 years ago from the U.S to join my girlfriend on a visitor's visa.I did find someone to sponsor my work visa,but when I went to my home county to apply for the work visa, the embassy conveniently put my application on hold till i lost the job...the worst part was they denied me a second visit visa to visit my girlfriend again. So we had to wait till we got married to be together which was a year later.So I would not advice this route. The Irish government does not belong to a modern Europe...they are a remnant from the I.R.A era.

How could they deny you a visitors visa? US citizens do not require a visa to visit Ireland as tourists or visitors.

[archigabe]

I was a foreign national working in the U.S on a H1B then

[Dawie]

I was a foreign national working in the U.S on a H1B then

Aaah gotcha. Non-visa nationals are certainly given more lee-way to do what they want on arrival in Ireland than visa-nationals who have to obtain a visit visa from an Irish embassy first.

For example, as a non-visa national you are well within your rights to come visit Ireland and look for a job and attend job interviews as long as you don't actually start any job before you obtain a work permit.

However, visa nationals might find it very difficult to obtain a visit visa from an Irish embassy purely for the purpose of random job-hunting in Ireland. The embassy would probably want very specific dates and times etc of any interviews you had set up and also assurances that you do not plan to actually start any job without the correct authorisation.

[archigabe]

It's not possible to get a visit visa for the purpose of job hunting or interviews when they want proof of ties to your home country and intention to return when you apply for a visit visa.