Telecommuting and Self-Sufficiency

[splanky]

I'm about to travel to the UK as a non-visa national (Australian) where I'll apply for a derivative residence card as the primary carer of a self-sufficient EEA minor child. I have a reasonable amount of savings. I can also derive income from my business in Australia by telecommuting to continue work for my current clients.

I am unsure if I should count the telecommuting work in my application for the derivative residence card. The migration agent I've been working with says I should not, that I should not be doing that work in the UK. But I have done the telecommuting several times in the UK, and have been completely up-front about it when I entered the country. None of the immigration officers at the border have had a problem with it. A lawyer I have talked to said I would not have a problem working like this.

So can I use the telecommuting work to prove self-sufficiency in the application, or should I just rely on my savings?

Splanky

[Hubba]

I don't see why telecommuting would bring any problems to you on your application. You're not working in the UK (your earnings are received abroad, your customers are abroad, everything is abroad besides you). I'd say your migration agent doesn't understand properly what you would do and is afraid Home Office would classify that was working illegaly here in the UK, which is not the case.

[Obie]

This agent is talking utter rubbish.

You are entitled to work in the UK. Provided you are indeed a primary career, and on the day you comnenced work, there is a CSI covering you and the child, and you can show that you are in possession of sufficient resources which will ensure tou do not become an unreasonable burden to the UK's resources.

[splanky]

Good to know I would be doing nothing illegal! But would it be legal without my rights as a Chen parent? The first time I did this I wasn't a Chen parent and I was allowed into the country when I said what I'd be doing. If it's separate to my Chen rights I can use it to prove self-sufficiency. If's it's dependent on them, I can't (see http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... g/chen.pdf)

Splanky

[Hubba]

Good to know I would be doing nothing illegal! But would it be legal without my rights as a Chen parent? The first time I did this I wasn't a Chen parent and I was allowed into the country when I said what I'd be doing. If it's separate to my Chen rights I can use it to prove self-sufficiency. If's it's dependent on them, I can't (see http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... g/chen.pdf)

Splanky

I believe it would be legal. As I've said, you wouldn't be working to an UK registered company and you wouldn't be receiving your earnings in the UK. You would not be employed in the UK.

[splanky]

Thanks hubba. I'll give it a go. I've got nothing to lose. It will always be legal under Chen, so the worst case scenario is just that they won't count the income, not that I'll be prosecuted.

Splanky

[gonzo]

Splanky-

I saw in your separate post that you are now sorted immigration wise- congrats.

I know this thread was originally about immigration- but your original post, along with Hubba's comments, implied that your telecommuting work may not really be "work" here in the UK.

Not true from both a taxation and immigration perspective. At a high level, taxation is based on where you are physically when you do the work, not where your clients are.

Anyway- the telecommuting tax issues can actually be quite complicated- and not for this board, but just wanted to give you a heads up if you think your australian earnings "don't count" here.

I'm a USC married to a UKC, and was successful with my EEA2 using Singh via Ireland. Our sole economic activity was telecommuting back to our USA consulting business (and was the only income/treaty right activity listed on our EEA2/singh app). While in Ireland, we had to register as self-employed, and now have an Irish tax bill. Now that we are settled in the UK, 100% of my USA telecommuting income is taxed by the HMRC.

I thought the immigration law was complicated- until I started diving into international tax law!

[Hubba]

Splanky-

I saw in your separate post that you are now sorted immigration wise- congrats.

I know this thread was originally about immigration- but your original post, along with Hubba's comments, implied that your telecommuting work may not really be "work" here in the UK.

Not true from both a taxation and immigration perspective. At a high level, taxation is based on where you are physically when you do the work, not where your clients are.

Anyway- the telecommuting tax issues can actually be quite complicated- and not for this board, but just wanted to give you a heads up if you think your australian earnings "don't count" here.

I'm a USC married to a UKC, and was successful with my EEA2 using Singh via Ireland. Our sole economic activity was telecommuting back to our USA consulting business (and was the only income/treaty right activity listed on our EEA2/singh app). While in Ireland, we had to register as self-employed, and now have an Irish tax bill. Now that we are settled in the UK, 100% of my USA telecommuting income is taxed by the HMRC.

I thought the immigration law was complicated- until I started diving into international tax law!

Huh, the more you know. I thought that as long as his company was registered in AUS and his customers were paying his company through his company's aussie account, his company would not be taxed there. Of course that if you have your company registered here in the UK, it doesn't really matter where your customers are.

[splanky]

I did discuss the tax side of things with my accountant before I left Australia. I think what he said was as long as was working for part of the financial year in Australia then it's okay, I can keep paying tax there. But thanks for the warning - I'll be prepared! I have done this before for up to six months at a time in 2006 and 2012, and no one suggested I should be paying tax in the UK. Also every immigration officer I've talked to seemed to think I'm doing nothing illegal by telecommuting.

Splanky

[gonzo]

I thought that as long as his company was registered in AUS and his customers were paying his company through his company's aussie account, his company would not be taxed there. Of course that if you have your company registered here in the UK, it doesn't really matter where your customers are.

In terms of whether its 'logical'- think about my situation. 100% of our income is from US sources. Here in the UK, our kids go to UK state schools, we drive on UK roads, use the NHS, get protection from police & fire, etc.... Would it be fair that we don't pay any UK taxes while living here?

Of course not- which is why in principle employment and tax laws generally follow where you are physically located.

Now how much you actually pay is very complicated, because it relates to the tax laws of both countries, as well as the tax treaties between the countries; and there are myriad rules/exceptions for partial year residencies, types of income, protections to avoid double taxation, protections to keep people from slipping into the gap and avoiding tax in both countries, etc.

[Hubba]

I thought that as long as his company was registered in AUS and his customers were paying his company through his company's aussie account, his company would not be taxed there. Of course that if you have your company registered here in the UK, it doesn't really matter where your customers are.

In terms of whether its 'logical'- think about my situation. 100% of our income is from US sources. Here in the UK, our kids go to UK state schools, we drive on UK roads, use the NHS, get protection from police & fire, etc.... Would it be fair that we don't pay any UK taxes while living here?

Of course not- which is why in principle employment and tax laws generally follow where you are physically located.

Now how much you actually pay is very complicated, because it relates to the tax laws of both countries, as well as the tax treaties between the countries; and there are myriad rules/exceptions for partial year residencies, types of income, protections to avoid double taxation, protections to keep people from slipping into the gap and avoiding tax in both countries, etc.

Well, I guess you are right, it wouldn't really be fair. Damn, you were right in your first post, this is a rabbit hole I'm really not keen to get into!