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adona
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Work Permits- Advertisement Rules

Post by adona » Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:50 am

Hi all
As we know an employer should advertise the job if it is not in the shortage of skill.!!!!!!!!!!!Is that true
My question is which is the best suitable mediums(s) of IT or accountancy related jobs.
AND
Is this true as well that employer should have to wait for at least 28 days after advertising the job.??????? After then he can apply for WP...
Is 28 days rule is necessary??

Regards
Adona

arnomarga
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Post by arnomarga » Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:55 am

Yes you have to advertise if its not in a shortage list, also employer has to wait for 1 month after advertisement.

olisun
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Post by olisun » Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:54 pm

arnomarga wrote:Yes you have to advertise if its not in a shortage list, also employer has to wait for 1 month after advertisement.
And not only just wait for one month doing nothing but your employer will have to show the details of all the candidates he /she has interviewed and convince the HO why you are the ONLY candidate suitable for the job.

adona
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Post by adona » Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:54 pm

hi.
many thanks.
actually i am working as part time with current employer since 2005 as student and now (Since june 2007) as full time as a SEGS holder.
Since my company is an accounting firm so i dont think it will be in the shortage of skill.
The reason my employer looking for my work permit is they have spend resources and money to train myself. I have been with the company for past 2 years and knows most of the work and any one else will take time to understand the system.
Do you think this favours me and its enough to convience HO

Adona

olisun
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Post by olisun » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:34 pm

adona wrote: The reason my employer looking for my work permit is they have spend resources and money to train myself. I have been with the company for past 2 years and knows most of the work and any one else will take time to understand the system.
Do you think this favours me and its enough to convience HO
Yes.

BUT it depends on how the company presents the case to the HO.

avjones
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Post by avjones » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:37 pm

Hi Adona - no, that won't cut any ice with the Home Office. The job either qualifies for a WP or it doesn't.
I am not, and cannot, offer legal advice to particular people. I can only discuss general areas of immigration law.

People should always consider obtaining professional advice about their own particular circumstances.

olisun
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Post by olisun » Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:08 pm

avjones wrote:Hi Adona - no, that won't cut any ice with the Home Office. The job either qualifies for a WP or it doesn't.
Not quite true.

I am speaking out of my own experience and one of my collagues in my company.

avjones
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Post by avjones » Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:46 pm

It doesn't meet the test under the rules, though?
I am not, and cannot, offer legal advice to particular people. I can only discuss general areas of immigration law.

People should always consider obtaining professional advice about their own particular circumstances.

olisun
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Post by olisun » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:17 pm

avjones wrote:It doesn't meet the test under the rules, though?
Yes

Since the OP has been working with the employer for some time legally, there is no way the HO can make a person umemployed by refusing a WP for the same position in the same organisation.

All the OP needs is a very good, I mean very good letter from the company

adona
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Post by adona » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:38 pm

What does OP stands for?.....?

olisun
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Post by olisun » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:40 pm

adona wrote:What does OP stands for?.....?
Original Poster

adona
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Post by adona » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:40 am

thanks olisun

OP was a new term for me ..

Does any one know how long HO takes for WP decision, I heard it between 6 to 8 weeks and it could be more or less depending on the volume of applications that HO is receiving. I don’t know if this is true or not.

My SEGS visa will expire at end of September 2007. My employer will hopefully advertise the job some time this week. Do you think I have got enough time OR I am running against the time?

Adona

olisun
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Post by olisun » Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:32 am

adona wrote:My employer will hopefully advertise the job some time this week.
I would suggest you download the form and fill it yourself and attach a letter from the employer detailing ALL the reasons why they want to continue to employ you and you should be okay.

In the meantime if required your employer can start advertising the job and conduct the interviews (which I think won't be necessary).

I am talking out of my experience, but I will leave the final decision on you.

adona
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Post by adona » Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:51 pm

thanks
Yes i am doing this now, as you know some time employer doesnt have time unless they have big HR team.
I think i need WP1 form for my application,,,,,,,,,,,,,?>>

A BIT CONFUSING THING..

I find from Work Permit guidelines notes that employer cannot hire any employee until he/she gets WP. But I am already working full time
Thing is I am working under SEGS scheme. What I realize is that its like switching from SEGS to WP.

Does this justify my position in the company...??
adona

olisun
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Post by olisun » Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:05 pm

adona wrote:But I am already working full time
Thing is I am working under SEGS scheme. What I realize is that its like switching from SEGS to WP.

Does this justify my position in the company...??
Yes

PaperPusher
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Post by PaperPusher » Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:33 pm

Hi adona

If you check out the business and commercial guidance notes for employers at http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/6353/1 ... uidmay.pdf it actually says
If you are applying for a work permit to enable a person who has worked for you while here under another category of the Immigration Rules (for example as a Working Holiday Maker or student) to continue in that employment, you will still be required to show that you have sought to fill the post with a ‘resident worker’
which would appear to mean you with a SEGS visa, and
You will need to show why you cannot fill the post with a 'resident worker' (see paragraph 2). In most cases you will also need to give details of your recruitment methods and give credible reasons why you did not employ a suitably qualified or experienced 'resident worker' or one who, with extra training, could do the job.
which covers what you said about the training you have had.

You said earlier
The reason my employer looking for my work permit is they have spend resources and money to train myself. I have been with the company for past 2 years and knows most of the work and any one else will take time to understand the system.
According to this, your employer should still advertise the post and show that there are no suitable resident workers, and even that there are no resident workers who need some extra training.

Your employer would have to give a very, very good reason why they should not have to prove that there are no resident workers or give advertising, IMO.

olisun wrote
Since the OP has been working with the employer for some time legally, there is no way the HO can make a person umemployed by refusing a WP for the same position in the same organisation.
but if this was the case, the HO would have to approve every application for a job on the tills in Tesco, or every extremely senior job that is paid at the National Minimum Wage, if the person has already been doing the job working legally. :?:

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Post by Wanderer » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:14 pm

i hatched a cunning plan similar-ish to this. Not saying the OP is being devious like I definately was!

I have a limited company still from when I used it for contracting, I was thinking of investing some money, and this bit is quite plausible and realistic, starting a translation and interpreting business within my Ltd, employing my student gf as the translator cos:

a: She's bloody good

b: She was being offered self-emplyed work (via the Police who should know better!) and u can't be self-emplyed on a student visa.

But I was advised here I could do it but I'd find it hard not to have to give the job to some other local/EU or qualified person not on a student visa whrn it came to applying for the WP.

So are we saying we could get away with it? It's not a definate, just another avenue to have.....
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

olisun
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Post by olisun » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:48 pm

PaperPusher wrote:
olisun wrote
Since the OP has been working with the employer for some time legally, there is no way the HO can make a person umemployed by refusing a WP for the same position in the same organisation.
but if this was the case, the HO would have to approve every application for a job on the tills in Tesco, or every extremely senior job that is paid at the National Minimum Wage, if the person has already been doing the job working legally. :?:
True but what I have mentioned does not apply to each and every kind of job in the industry.

I have just mentioned my own personal experience and how my company gave me that one letter which got me the WP.

PS: I haven't yet come across any person who is filling the shelves at Tesco or the likes and who is on a WP

PaperPusher
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Post by PaperPusher » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:12 pm

Hello

olisun wrote
True but what I have mentioned does not apply to each and every kind of job in the industry.

I have just mentioned my own personal experience and how my company gave me that one letter which got me the WP.
When you got the WP, was it done exceptionally at the time? What applied to you may not apply now, or to the OP's situation, just being cautious. It seems that the guidance pretty much excludes already being employed and having had some training as reasons not to try to get a resident worker.

If the application is refused because of no adverts, it is a waste of ££s for the sake of free advertising on Reed or some other place. The OP's SEGS visa doesn't run out for a while, there is time.

If anyone has success stories where they got a WP approved without adverts, perhaps they could give advice how to go about it.

olisun wrote
PS: I haven't yet come across any person who is filling the shelves at Tesco or the likes and who is on a WP
What I meant was if an application for a low skilled job in Tescos was refused, then it would make the Tesco employee unemployed, just like it could for the OP if their application was refused. Making someone unemployed may not come into it, just whether the application ticks all the right boxes.

I am sure the HO can make people unemployed by refusing a WP for the same position in the same organisation.

adona
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Post by adona » Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:25 pm

Hello
Thanks PaperPublisher , i am reading the guidelines you provided,
it seems that hiring a non-resident employee is notoriously complicated task. Advertising and rest of the process requires a massive effort.

I personally think that few things are going in my way if few are not..

Adona

VictoriaS
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Post by VictoriaS » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:23 pm

Wanderer wrote: I have a limited company still from when I used it for contracting, I was thinking of investing some money, and this bit is quite plausible and realistic, starting a translation and interpreting business within my Ltd, employing my student gf as the translator cos:

a: She's bloody good

b: She was being offered self-emplyed work (via the Police who should know better!) and u can't be self-emplyed on a student visa.

But I was advised here I could do it but I'd find it hard not to have to give the job to some other local/EU or qualified person not on a student visa whrn it came to applying for the WP.

So are we saying we could get away with it? It's not a definate, just another avenue to have.....
It is unlikely that you would get away with this - and believe me, plenty have tried.

The Home Office are going to want to see your accounts. Theyw ill see that the company has been dormant for a while or at the very least has clearly been simply a one man company established for contracting purposes, and they will immediately be suspicious at this. They will want to see brochures, business plans, and will want to know how you recruited the proposed employee.

Also, what language is she proficient in? It is almost impossible to get work permit for translators these days as there are so many people speaking so many languages.

Victoria
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VictoriaS
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Post by VictoriaS » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:25 pm

olisun wrote:
avjones wrote: Since the OP has been working with the employer for some time legally, there is no way the HO can make a person umemployed by refusing a WP for the same position in the same organisation.
Oh, they can and they do. I have known this for student visa holders who have been working part time then full time during the summer, and I have known them refuse for working holidaymakers who have been working in a role for 12 months. They will give very little weight to the fact that the employee has already been workign there and has made himself indespensible.

Victoria
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