Visa app help plz

[357mag]

Ok, I'm filling in visa application for me and my partner to go to the emerald isle on August 1st but...

Going through the documen'ts check list they say

4. Evidence of your permission to reside in the UK(stamp, sticker or
residence card) valid for at least 3 months after your date of
departure from Ireland.

Well her visa applications in UK have all failed, shes expecting the Capita letter any day now to get out, so she wont be able to return to UK.
Can anyone tell me, are the Irish visa folk really strict on number 4 or has anyone got their visa without item4?

I'm kind of thinking that after departure from Ireland she will have Irish resident permit.

[357mag]

No going to help me?

I emailed london embassy

Sir, I have a question regarding visa application for partner of EEA citizen exercising treaty rights.
In the document checklist
4. Evidence of your permission to reside in the UK(stamp, sticker or
residence card) valid for at least 3 months after your date of departure from Ireland
Our intention is to stay in Ireland for many months, possibly even permanently if prospects look good. Therefore we have no date of departure from Ireland in mind so we cant understand how we would meet this requirement.
Could you explain please if this documentation is really necessary.

But no reply yet

[Conejo77]

Hi,

I would like to help, but I feel like your question/post is not clear (I might not be the only one thinking this way, as there are no replies to your post).

Can you please explain your situation:
Are you in Ireland?
Which country are you from?
is your partner married to you? or what is your situation?
Why do you want to use Ireland to go to UK?

probably if you explain those points people would be able to help... and please be specific regarding which documents are you talking about. This way ppl will help if they were in a similar situation.

Regards, Conejo

[357mag]

My girl friend is filipino, I am british.
We are both in UK but all the applications for her to stay have failed and we expect the capita letter for her to leave to come any day now.
We are trying to apply for a visa for her to accompany me to Ireland under treaty rights.
But under the documents required (item 4) it says she needs evidence that she has a right to be in UK for at least 3 months after departure from Ireland.
Obviously they would need proof that she can leave Ireland.
But we intend to stay in Ireland, so how can we prove that she has another country to go when we dont know if and when she will leave.

I'm wondering if others have managed to get a visa for Ireland without evidence that they can return to where they came from.

[dalebutt]

Yes wiggsy did, it will take a bit of back and forth letter establishing your rights. Follows wiggy's post on how he did it, post back if you require further information.

[357mag]

Cheers dale I'll see if I can find it.

[dalebutt]

http://www.immigrationboards.com/irelan ... 35190.html

Apologies, I thought I included the link in the previous post.

[adelmurray]

it looks like your girlfriend may be the subject of a deportation order , which will be a huge obstacle for her to gain a visa to Ireland , i am sorry to say that your only option to apply under the EU rules you will need to be married and you the EU citizen need to show that you are exercising your EU Treaty rights ( free movement of people Directive ) , you can do that by 1st get married , second you travel to Ireland and get a job or register as a student , rent a flat in both your names , then you can approach the immigration department and apply for your new wife's visa . one you do that it should not be a problem even if the British authorities have issued your girlfriend with an intention to remove her from the country .

good luck with everything and hope that did help .

[dalebutt]

it looks like your girlfriend may be the subject of a deportation order , which will be a huge obstacle for her to gain a visa to Ireland , i am sorry to say that your only option to apply under the EU rules you will need to be married and you the EU citizen need to show that you are exercising your EU Treaty rights ( free movement of people Directive ) , you can do that by 1st get married , second you travel to Ireland and get a job or register as a student , rent a flat in both your names , then you can approach the immigration department and apply for your new wife's visa . one you do that it should not be a problem even if the British authorities have issued your girlfriend with an intention to remove her from the country .

good luck with everything and hope that did help .

That is not correct, absolutely not correct, they needn't be married before EU law can be engaged in Ireland, Ireland recognises De facto relationships under their national provisions, and this will equally apply to EU citizens.

[dalebutt]

There is also nothing preventing the Irish embassy in London from issuing her with an accompany EU citizen visa in her current position.

[357mag]

Shes not subject to a deportation order,,yet,,
She had a Capita letter before but we submitted another application which trumped that. But her latest application just failed and another Capita letter follows soon after. I know its just to put the wind up us, it says phone this number by susch and such a date and tell us your plans to leave the UK.

Weve really been playing for time hoping her divorce would get sorted, she started the petition in January, also been making up the 2 years durable relationship evidence.

The 2 year evidence is still a bit scrappy but we can hope. The only other shortcoming is the need for more than 3 month right to return to UK after Ireland visa expires. She has no further leave to remain but like I said we are planning a long stay in Ireland so any leave to remain here would run out anyway.

I want to get the travel tickets and submit visa application before we get the Capita letter so they cant have her passport because its away at Irish embassy.

[adelmurray]

i may be wrong , but i don't think the EU free movement of people directive acknowledges de facto relation ships , so here the poster will need to rely on the irish local immigration laws , and when they do of course the irish immigration officials will look at the girlfriends immigration history thus will automatically disqualify the lady from getting the irish visa under local irish immigration laws .
on the other hand the EU directive would be a better option for them because the irish immigration department can not refuse them that visa , and as far as i know in order to qualify under the EU free movement of people directive , the applicant should be married to the EU citizen . unless you can prove that the EU directive clearly states that de facto relationships are also recognised . i urge you not to mix the two immigration laws .

[dalebutt]

i may be wrong , but i don't think the EU free movement of people directive acknowledges de facto relation ships , so here the poster will need to rely on the irish local immigration laws , and when they do of course the irish immigration officials will look at the girlfriends immigration history thus will automatically disqualify the lady from getting the irish visa under local irish immigration laws .
on the other hand the EU directive would be a better option for them because the irish immigration department can not refuse them that visa , and as far as i know in order to qualify under the EU free movement of people directive , the applicant should be married to the EU citizen . unless you can prove that the EU directive clearly states that de facto relationships are also recognised . i urge you not to mix the two immigration laws .

Your understanding is incorrect.

Partner of EU citizen *
*Refers to a long-term relationship with an EU citizen that has existed for at least 2 years
Your Passport
Copy of the bio page of your EU citizen partner’s passport or national identity card
Documentary evidence that will attest to the existence, duration and durability of the relationship e.g. the registration certificate (if it is a registered partnership), evidence of common ownership of property, joint tenancy of property, on-going correspondence addressed to both partners at the same address, financial dependence/interdependence, joint bank accounts or any other relevant documentation
Evidence that you are accompanying or joining your EU citizen partner who is exercising free movement rights in Ireland or will be exercising those rights at the time of your arrival in Ireland - proof that the EU citizen already resides in Ireland (e.g. a utility bill, hotel reservation or receipts etc.) or that the EU citizen will travel to Ireland (e.g. travel itinerary, acceptance of offer of employment etc.)
NOTE: The onus is on the applicant to satisfy the Visa Officer of the bona fides of the partnership.




http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Sh ... ber_States

[adelmurray]

dear 357mag ,

i wish i could give you an answer that would make all your worries go away , i am just stating facts here ... there are 2 ways you can go about this :
1: apply for a de facto visa , which i don't advise , because as i said before your girlfriends immigration history with the British home office would be a huge obstacle because you are relying on local Irish immigration law , therefore the Irish immigration office can do and will do whatever they can to prevent you and your girlfriend from getting the visa , and trust me no body can stop them from doing that , even the EU , as it is a national immigration law .

2: apply under the EU free movement of people directive and the irish immigration office will not have any say on the matter they will just have to approve , once of course you have met the basic conditions which are : being married to the applicant , you have a job or being a student , you have accommodation and you can support yourself and your wife .

but please keep enquiring and i hope you will get a solid and correct answer . best of luck with everything ..

[357mag]

Cheers for the link dale, this bit makes me feel a bit easier.
Article 6 - Right of residence for up to three months

1. Union citizens shall have the right of residence on the territory of another Member State for a period of up to three months without any conditions or any formalities other than the requirement to hold a valid identity card or passport.

2. The provisions of paragraph 1 shall also apply to family members in possession of a valid passport who are not nationals of a Member State, accompanying or joining the Union citizen

Except for the bit that says family members, it does not refer to permitted family members which is what durable relationships comes under.

[dalebutt]

adelmurray Your post have been corrected, there is no reason why you should further maintain your incorrect position, you will be misleading the OP and many other users with such information, if you are unsure of anything please visit http://www.inis.gov.ie, or follow the previous link given.

[adelmurray]

i hope i am wrong as i said , the poster will need to get professional advise on this issue ,
i am not an expert but that is my understanding of the situation and i hope i am wrong , because i have never heard of a non married couple used the EU immigration law route .

[357mag]

You are of course right that de facto or durable relationships are to some extent at the discretion of the issuing authority Adelmurray. As in will facilitate rather than will issue.

I'm just hoping they will facilitate on the evidence we provide that we are in a durable relationship.

[357mag]

There are of course loads who have used the directive route as durable relations rather than married.

I'm 60 years old and disabled so I wont be doing it as a worker, self employed or a student, I will have to rely on C-456/12 if and when we come back.

[dalebutt]

You are of course right that de facto or durable relationships are to some extent at the discretion of the issuing authority Adelmurray. As in will facilitate rather than will issue.

I'm just hoping they will facilitate on the evidence we provide that we are in a durable relationship.

You are mixing it, subject to discretion does not include the powers to refuse on the basis of such things as in her case, even if she was deported for minor crimes in the UK for example, that discretion does not grant the Irish authorities the right to refuse that application.

Discretion means her rights are not automatic as opposed to married couples, her right is subject to confirmation by the Irish authorities, which means, they will have to verify based on the evidence provided in support of the application, if the relationship is subsisting, and akin to marriage, that is the only discretion they have, once that has been confirmed she has equally just about the same rights as you the Brits.

[adelmurray]

[quote="dalebutt"]adelmurray Your post have been corrected, there is no reason why you should further maintain your incorrect position, you will be misleading the OP and many other users with such information, if you are unsure of anything please visit http://www.inis.gov.ie, or follow the previous link given.[/quote

i am not arguing here i am just trying to be helpful and all ways maintained that i hope i am wrong , there is no need to accuse me of misleading the op or maintaining my incorrect position , the op need to get professional advise on this matter , and i hope to god that it is as easy as you are making it for them . as i said before i have never heard of any non married couple using the EU law route .
let's not forget also that the lady here have adverse history with the british home office , so the irish immigration office will use anything in their power to deny them their request , so they have to be very careful as to which route and what way they will do this .

i wish them both the best of luck and hope that they will get sorted please god .

[357mag]

I'm sure I am mixing it dale, read my tag line lol.

Its been a long painful slog and this is our second to last chance. If it fails she goes back to Manila and I go to Ireland alone and we try for her to join me under the same rules.

[dalebutt]

adelmurray. You clearly are wrong and should desist from maintaining your position, I am not saying you are arguing with me, what you are stating is just vague and had no basis in the Irish legislation. The Irish authorities refused to recognise my marriage in 2011, they accepted that my relationship is subsisting and issued me with a visa on that basis as a partner of EU a British citizen. The matter was later resolved with the EU treaty rights section.

[357mag]

Sorry ademurray, I can see some element in what you are saying being correct but its a forum and the best way to use a forum is to select what you think is the most accurate or most usable information. Your input is graciously received but I feel Dales is the most informed response.

One thing I do know is that loads of couples have used the EEA route as unmarried partners. If I had time I would get married before we go.

[adelmurray]

Sorry ademurray, I can see some element in what you are saying being correct but its a forum and the best way to use a forum is to select what you think is the most accurate or most usable information. Your input is graciously received but I feel Dales is the most informed response.

One thing I do know is that loads of couples have used the EEA route as unmarried partners. If I had time I would get married before we go.

whichever way best for you and your partner , that is my wish , and hope that you will not be face with any grievances from the irish immigration officials . best of luck with everything man i wish i could help more . just be prepared for the irish immigration officials trust me they will use any loophole they can find to deny your girlfriends visa , so be very careful with them .

wishing you both the best of luck and please god you will get your partners visa and live happy here in ireland .