Urgent: Query on Schengen visa

[petrohead]

Hello everyone,

I am looking for some help and advice. I hold an Indian passport and am currently on a Tier 2 Visa (Work permit with a reputed IT firm) which leads to ILR in December 2015. I got married last month (May 2014) to a British Citizen. We went on honeymoon for a week to Greece (June 2014) and I obtained a Schengen visa for this purpose. Now this Schengen Visa is valid until November 2014 wih a multiple entry sticker affixed to my passport. I am back in the UK now. I am confused about the following

1. I plan to visit France in August for few days. Now will that same (Greek) Schengen Visa allow me to go to France or do I need to apply for a new Schengen visa?

2. Having married a British Citizen do I need to apply for a tourist visa? From what I understand as I am on Tier 2 I will have to apply for one. However, do I mention being married to a British Citizen in the form? Will it make a difference to the cost/application of the visa?

Hopefully the experts can shed some light on this for me. Many thanks in advance for your time.

Kind regards,
KK

[Donutz]

1) A Schengen visa is valid in all member states, there is a field saying such ( valid in: Schengen states). Unless it was issues with a restriction, then it will contain the country code(s) instead. So you can visit France. Don't forget that you can only stay 90 days within a rolling 180 day period: on any given day count back 180 days and then do not exceed 90 days. On a normal visa of single entry your main destination needs to be the country you applied at though you can enter, visit and leave through any member state aslong as you can convince any borderguard that your main stay is the country that you applied for. On a multiple entry it would be silly and hard to check, assuming you did infact visit Greece it's plausible that your visa request was indeed genuine.

2) As a spouse of an EU citizen traveling together or joining your EU spouse in an other member state you are entitled to a free visa with minimal hassle and documentation. There is no need for sufficient funds or insurance either. If traveling alone you will need to meet these general requirements though.
See: http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/tr ... dex_en.htm

When the current visa (was it free?) expires, get a new free visa, leave the questions with a * unanswered. For reason check "other" and write "joining UK spouse to ...". Show evidence of your family ties, your passports and that you wil travel together (statement from your spouse, possibly flight or ferry reservation).

Save travels!

[petrohead]

Thanks for that Donutz! Do you think I can call the French embassy to double check that this is the case?

[chaoclive]

Calling probably won't be easy. Check their website. What Dnoutz said is correct. My civil partner has had visas for Spain and the Netherlands in this way, all for free and with very little documentation. These were issued in Beijing however, not in the UK.

[petrohead]

Calling probably won't be easy. Check their website. What Dnoutz said is correct. My civil partner has had visas for Spain and the Netherlands in this way, all for free and with very little documentation. These were issued in Beijing however, not in the UK.

My UK Residence Permit is basically a Work Permit (Tier 2). It doesnt say anywhere on it that I am married to a UK citizen. All I have for proof of marriage is the marriage certificate. I am not on a spouce visa. Hope the same rules apply!

[petrohead]

Calling probably won't be easy. Check their website. What Dnoutz said is correct. My civil partner has had visas for Spain and the Netherlands in this way, all for free and with very little documentation. These were issued in Beijing however, not in the UK.

Here is the extract from the TLS France visa application page;

If your UK residency does not state "Family Member of an EEA national", you will need a visa to travel to France. In support of your application, the following documents will have to be produced:
- Evidence of the family link between the visa national and the EU/ EEA/ or Swiss National (civil status document)
- Evidence of EU/ EEA/ or Swiss Nationality (passport or national ID card)
- Evidence of stay in France of the EU/ EEA/ or Swiss National (proof of travel and accommodation)

This bit threw me. I did not understand it. If my wife is British citizen what out of this applies to me

[liksah]

You don't need another visa if your Schengen visa is printed without any exceptions (does it say "Valid only for Greece" ?).

I don't understand why you're asking here if you still want to double check with the consulate. Just do that if it gives you peace of mind. As far as anyone here is concerned, you're good to go until your visa expires unless you already stayed 90 days in a rolling 6 month period.

[petrohead]

You don't need another visa if your Schengen visa is printed without any exceptions (does it say "Valid only for Greece" ?).

I don't understand why you're asking here if you still want to double check with the consulate. Just do that if it gives you peace of mind. As far as anyone here is concerned, you're good to go until your visa expires unless you already stayed 90 days in a rolling 6 month period.

No offence however I am looking for answers from SME's/experienced members or moderators tbh. For some reason a newbie's answer doesnt give me much confidence...haha!

[Donutz]

You won't need a new visa untill your multiple entry visa (printed by the Greeks) expires.
When your visa expires in the future you could ask for a new visa, which should be free. Just like your visa to Greece should have been free if you IDed yourself as a family member joining the EU/EAA national. All embassy websites should have info on EU/EAA spouse, sadly not all do ( violating the EU rules).

If the EU webpage is not clear enough, check the freedom of movement act. 2004/38/EC.
See PDFs and check article 1-6: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/ ... 32004L0038

As far as supporting documents for EU/EAA spouse go:

3.6. Supporting documents
In order to prove that the applicant has the right to be issued with an entry visa under the
Directive, he must establish that he is a beneficiary of the Directive. This is done by
presenting documents relevant for the purposes of the three questions referred to above, i.e.
proving that:
• there is an EU citizen from whom the visa applicant can derive any rights;
• the visa applicant is a family member (e.g. a marriage certificate, birth certificate,
proof of dependency, serious health grounds, durability of partnerships …) and his
identity (passport); and
• the visa applicant accompanies or joins an EU citizen (e.g. a proof that the EU
citizen already resides in the host Member State or a confirmation that the EU
citizen will travel to the host Member State).
It is an established principle of EU law in the area of free movement that visa applicants have
the right of choice of the documentary evidence by which they wish to prove that they are
covered by the Directive (i.e. of the family link, dependency …). Member States may,
however, ask for specific documents (e.g. a marriage certificate as the means of proving the
existence of marriage), but should not refuse other means of proof.
For further information in relation to the documentation, see Commission Communication
COM (2009) 313 final 26 .

Source: Schengen Visa Handbook http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/po ... 620_en.pdf
Basically you will need your marriage document, passports of the applicant, passport of EU citizen, statement from the EU citizen and optionally but if possible a transport ticket reservation such as a ferry reservation from Dover to Calais.

Finally TLS (and VFS) are optional, direct access must be maintained and if the embassy does a proper job they do mention this.

[petrohead]

You won't need a new visa untill your multiple entry visa (printed by the Greeks) expires.
When your visa expires in the future you could ask for a new visa, which should be free. Just like your visa to Greece should have been free if you IDed yourself as a family member joining the EU/EAA national. All embassy websites should have info on EU/EAA spouse, sadly not all do ( violating the EU rules).

If the EU webpage is not clear enough, check the freedom of movement act. 2004/38/EC.
See PDFs and check article 1-6: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/ ... 32004L0038

As far as supporting documents for EU/EAA spouse go:

3.6. Supporting documents
In order to prove that the applicant has the right to be issued with an entry visa under the
Directive, he must establish that he is a beneficiary of the Directive. This is done by
presenting documents relevant for the purposes of the three questions referred to above, i.e.
proving that:
• there is an EU citizen from whom the visa applicant can derive any rights;
• the visa applicant is a family member (e.g. a marriage certificate, birth certificate,
proof of dependency, serious health grounds, durability of partnerships …) and his
identity (passport); and
• the visa applicant accompanies or joins an EU citizen (e.g. a proof that the EU
citizen already resides in the host Member State or a confirmation that the EU
citizen will travel to the host Member State).
It is an established principle of EU law in the area of free movement that visa applicants have
the right of choice of the documentary evidence by which they wish to prove that they are
covered by the Directive (i.e. of the family link, dependency …). Member States may,
however, ask for specific documents (e.g. a marriage certificate as the means of proving the
existence of marriage), but should not refuse other means of proof.
For further information in relation to the documentation, see Commission Communication
COM (2009) 313 final 26 .

Source: Schengen Visa Handbook http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/po ... 620_en.pdf
Basically you will need your marriage document, passports of the applicant, passport of EU citizen, statement from the EU citizen and optionally but if possible a transport ticket reservation such as a ferry reservation from Dover to Calais.

Finally TLS (and VFS) are optional, direct access must be maintained and if the embassy does a proper job they do mention this.

This is really helpful! Shall go through this in detail. BTW when I went to Greece I had booked everything before the marriage so I applied for a standard tourist Schengen visa. When I applied for the Greek visa I put down single as I wasnt married then. I am not sure how they gave me a multi entry visa.

I went to Barcelona in 2011 and Amsterdam in 2012 and both of those were single entry Schengen's!

[Donutz]

You're welcome.

Ah good to hear you didn't get screwed over by the Greeks.
As a general rule of thumb embassies should consider issuing a multi entry visa on the third application: frequent and bona fite travellers can get a multiple entry visa (MEV). Depending on the embassy they may automstically give you a MEV on the third application for a Schengen visa. Some embassies are more difficult though and hand them out more rarely. Ofcours people can always request a MEV at any time which the embassy should then consider. Other embassies give MEV on the first or second application for certain types of applicants... So embassies have some room to maneuver here.

Currently the European Commission is working on new rules to automatically issue MEV on all third visa's:
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-14-347_en.htm

[petrohead]

You're welcome.

Ah good to hear you didn't get screwed over by the Greeks.
As a general rule of thumb embassies should consider issuing a multi entry visa on the third application: frequent and bona fite travellers can get a multiple entry visa (MEV). Depending on the embassy they may automstically give you a MEV on the third application for a Schengen visa. Some embassies are more difficult though and hand them out more rarely. Ofcours people can always request a MEV at any time which the embassy should then consider. Other embassies give MEV on the first or second application for certain types of applicants... So embassies have some room to maneuver here.

Currently the European Commission is working on new rules to automatically issue MEV on all third visa's:
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-14-347_en.htm

Thank you! Would you know if it has been 90 days between my return from Greece and before my arrival in Paris that the Schengen MEV from Greece would be void? Hope I am making sense!

[Donutz]

The visa itself doesn't become void it can only expire on the date printed. Aslong as you don't exceed 90 days over the past 180 days you are fine and can travel around the Schengen area untill the visa expires. When it does expire, get a new one for free.

[petrohead]

The visa itself doesn't become void it can only expire on the date printed. Aslong as you don't exceed 90 days over the past 180 days you are fine and can travel around the Schengen area untill the visa expires. When it does expire, get a new one for free.

Here what the visa stamp says;

Valid for: ETATS SCHENGEN
From: 05.05.14 Until: 04.11.14
Type of visa: C
Number of entries: MULT
Duration of stay: 45 DAYS
Issued in: LONDON
On: 15.04.14
Number on passport:
Surname, Name: ABCD, XYZ

As mentioned earlier, I've only used this to travel to Greece for 4 nights in May and I returned to UK thereafter. Now, wish to use this same visa to go to France in August. Hope I won't be denied entry!!!

Moderator edit: removed passport number for security

[Donutz]

"Etats Schengen". That means it is valid in all Schengen states (including France) untill it expires in november.

I'll report your post though and ask if the passport number can be removed, I'd be careful with mentioning any unique details such as numbers tied to a specific person or application. Just to be on the save side.

[Casa]

Thank you Donutz - post edited.

[petrohead]

"Etats Schengen". That means it is valid in all Schengen states (including France) untill it expires in november.

I'll report your post though and ask if the passport number can be removed, I'd be careful with mentioning any unique details such as numbers tied to a specific person or application. Just to be on the save side.

Ok great, thanks for all your help! Is there any website that could affirm this. I totally believe what you have said however I wish to take a printout of something official to back me up in case I get an entry clearance officer who doesnt know the rules in detail (quite often the case) and tries to deny me entry.

Btw, the passport number was made up!!!

[Donutz]

Lol @ passport number.

Not sure if there is a very specific article that says "Schengen" means all member states. As fas as I know they simply talk about a common EU visa policy and "member states" , followed by some countries that opted out of all or some rules and further on detailing when and how to issue a visa with limited territorial validity. It has been a while since I read the entire code though, haven't learnt it by heart and don't plan on doing so. I am currently on a smartphone, but from a computer you could open the PDFs on the visa page or border policy page and search (ctrl F) for a keyword such as "Schengen" and what it means when printed in the sticker. I think you're being a bit too cautious but if you want to be 100% sure (for the extremely unlikely change you get into an argument at the border), check out the PDFs here:
http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/wh ... dex_en.htm

Especiaaly the Visa Code and first handbook of 111 or so pages.

[petrohead]

Lol @ passport number.

Not sure if there is a very specific article that says "Schengen" means all member states. As fas as I know they simply talk about a common EU visa policy and "member states" , followed by some countries that opted out of all or some rules and further on detailing when and how to issue a visa with limited territorial validity. It has been a while since I read the entire code though, haven't learnt it by heart and don't plan on doing so. I am currently on a smartphone, but from a computer you could open the PDFs on the visa page or border policy page and search (ctrl F) for a keyword such as "Schengen" and what it means when printed in the sticker. I think you're being a bit too cautious but if you want to be 100% sure (for the extremely unlikely change you get into an argument at the border), check out the PDFs here:
http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/wh ... dex_en.htm

Especiaaly the Visa Code and first handbook of 111 or so pages.

Once again many thanks for your valuable inputs. I will go through this when I have a chance.

Meanwhile, I have emailed the French Embassy in English and French to confirm I will be ok with my visa to enter France. Hopefully, I will get a reply and if its positive I will take a printout of that which should be enough in case a situation arises. I like to be well versed with the law and personally enjoy when I teach someone a little more about their own job. It gives me a lot o pleasure to show them how they are in the wrong often leaving them speechless. The reaction is totally worth it.