Info needed about ILR- indefinite leave to remain

[adnantps]

i got my visa stamped for 2 yrs starting june 6 2007....

i am planning to leave to UK on aug 17 th 2007 ..

after 2 yrs i.e. june 6 2009 ill be filing my FLR which will be for 3 yrs..

now my question is...after 5 yrs i.e. june 6 2012...i'll have to file my ILR...
some body told me i have to leave wihtin 28 days starting of my initial VISA stamp date or else i cannot apply for ILR since i am not in UK for continous 5 yrs...is that right....???

a total of 6 mnths or less is allowed outside UK to qualfy for ILR ...does my delay in intial entry count into it..

Please reply... i'm worried abt my future plans?? thanks

[gordon]

Unless I misunderstand (either the regs or your post), your work authorisation under HSMP takes effect for two years in the first instance from 6 June 07, with the expectation that you will thereafter apply for FLR (HSMP) for a further three years from that date in 2009. However, your settlement clock, for the purposes of counting time under HSMP toward ILR, starts from the date that you arrive, 17 August 07. Unless I miss my guess (or the regs change again), you will be eligible to apply for ILR 4 years and 11 months after your arrival, ie circa 20 July 2012.

Or so I've been given to understand.
AG

[adnantps]

rightly said..but thats the issue...if i apply for FLR they wud issue me 3 yrs extension...

june 6 2007 + 2 yrs(FLR) =june 6 2009 + 3 yrs(ILR) = june 6 2012..

as u said i am eligible to apply for ILR in july 2012 but my visa extension would expire in june...??

what to do then ??

[gordon]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think it means that you apply for FLR (HSMP) again in 2012, to give you coverage until you are eligible for ILR later that year ...

[adnantps]

WOAH....

that will totally shift my age brackets ..i might not get any points in that category .....it may lead to my failure to score enuff points ..its a big shocker to me ...that 2 for only for 1 mnth lag???

i did google and went thru all the guidance notes...this case is not mentioned any where though its a very common one

[gordon]

It's rather tricky, isn't it ? I was thinking about this myself when I applied for entry clearance, and I asked for entry clearance post-dated to 15 August, so that my work authorisation clock (under HSMP) and my settlement clock (for ILR) would start on the same day - since I plan myself to arrive the 15th. I did it that way so that I would only have to apply for FLR (HSMP) once, in 2009.

Of course, there's always the possibility that the regs will change, but assuming that they more or less remain the same, I wanted to save myself the bother (and the expense) of applying for another round of FLR in 2012.

AG

[adnantps]

i also asked for a post dated entry clearance i.e 15th Aug on the EC form and also clearly mentioned in the other notes section...

but they just stamped my visa on the same date they issued it and sent it to the courrier service...

it is definitely tricky...a legal consultant might shed soem light into this topic...

[gordon]

It seems that some ECOs are rather more obliging than others. I wonder whether there is a way for you to get around having to apply for FLR once again in 2012; it seems absurd to be obliged to do so for the sake of six weeks. AG

[olisun]

It seems absurd to be obliged to do so for the sake of six weeks. AG

If we use this logic then every person (not just HSMP candidates) who have overstayed by a few weeks without a vaild LTR is will use this as an excuse to get around it.

That's one of the reason's why it's one's responsibility to look into all the minute details and plan accordingly and not take the HO lightly / for granted.

Who knows the OP may get around with the 6 weeks shortage in 2012 but nobody can predict the future.

[adnantps]

exactly..thats why i asked the EC dudes that i intend to leave on 15th august and also mentioned the reason in other notes section...but still they stamped it much earlier...

there must be a work around...it doesnt make any sense that i go for flr for 5 weeks and there may be a case i dont have enough points because of age bracket shift....although i have no issues in filing an FLR for 1-2 mnths.... provided i get it without any disqualification....

legal dudes please shed some light in current regulations...

[adnantps]

cmon guys...i think this issue wil be faced by many....

please shed some experience or some legal advice...

[SYH]

cmon guys...i think this issue wil be faced by many....

please shed some experience or some legal advice...

That doesn't encourage anyone to answer you more swiftly or at all

Why do you think there is a work around? HO is not concerned that their new rules causes timings issue in regards to points obtained for age. They are only concerned that you meet their criteria.

[gordon]

adnan - I am not sure what more can really be done about this, but the plus side is that you will have nearly five years to meet the points threshold, and you can arrange your earnings growth accordingly. AG

[apeterso925]

i got my visa stamped for 2 yrs starting june 6 2007....

i am planning to leave to UK on aug 17 th 2007 ..

after 2 yrs i.e. june 6 2009 ill be filing my FLR which will be for 3 yrs..

now my question is...after 5 yrs i.e. june 6 2012...i'll have to file my ILR...
some body told me i have to leave wihtin 28 days starting of my initial VISA stamp date or else i cannot apply for ILR since i am not in UK for continous 5 yrs...is that right....???

a total of 6 mnths or less is allowed outside UK to qualfy for ILR ...does my delay in intial entry count into it..

Please reply... i'm worried abt my future plans?? thanks

I asked the government this question a few months ago, via email. The email response I received said that you will not qualify for ILR until at least 5 years have passed since your initial arrival into the UK, not the start date of your visa.

I've shared this information with the forum at least a few times, so if you do a search, you can find the relevant threads.

So, in your case, you will have been there for 5 years in August 2009, not June...and you'll need a third visa to make up those 2 months from June-August 2009.

That rule is precisely why so many of us requested a post-dated visa during EC and are arriving on the exact start date of our visas. Of course, none of us really know what the options will be in 5 years, but it's worth a try.

But the upshot is, the start date of your visa is irrelevant for ILR purposes, it's the date on your arrival stamp for initial arrival that matters.

[adnantps]

point well taken....

but as said ...its not necessary the ECO acknowledges yr request of post dated stamp; as in my case and all of my frnds applying from pakistan; the eco didnt consider their post dated request.

I know i have to file n FLR again 2nd time; but that creates an issue of age bracket shift and may totally disqualfy me on points criteria.

FLR adds two yrs in age bracket so that we may not lose any points; what will happen in this case??

what worries me is; there must be a work around; some legal thing to over come this issue; as for 1 mnth lag out of 5 yrs one really cannot leave UK or is this some point Home Office has missed altogether??

Filing another FLR is no issue; chances of getting disqualified is a big one...

[apeterso925]

point well taken....

but as said ...its not necessary the ECO acknowledges yr request of post dated stamp; as in my case and all of my frnds applying from pakistan; the eco didnt consider their post dated request.

I know i have to file n FLR again 2nd time; but that creates an issue of age bracket shift and may totally disqualfy me on points criteria.

FLR adds two yrs in age bracket so that we may not lose any points; what will happen in this case??

what worries me is; there must be a work around; some legal thing to over come this issue; as for 1 mnth lag out of 5 yrs one really cannot leave UK or is this some point Home Office has missed altogether??

Filing another FLR is no issue; chances of getting disqualified is a big one...

Well then I'm sorry the post-date request wasn't honored, that stinks But I guess that goes back to what everyone else said...there is no work around, it is what it is.

The reason some of us get to use points for age is to offset the fact that since we're younger, we haven't had a chance to earn as much as our older fellow applicants. But at the same time, we can be expected to be of use in the workforce for longer, because we're young. In other words, we're allowed into the program based more on our potential than on our previous abilities.

But why would you expect to be considered highly-skilled if you don't earn the required salary *and* you're above the age for the points you would otherwise need? In that scenario, you are not considered highly-skilled. You have much less potential at that point and you need to show that your previous abilities are enough.

Looking at it from the perspective of the value you offer to the UK economy (which is the true purpose of this program, like it or not), if you are earning a salary too low to be considered highly-skilled *and* you've reached the age limit for age points, you are not highly-skilled, per the HSMP definition.

[gordon]

I don't suppose that there's any inherent reason that the ILR requirements should be necessarily coordinated with the HSMP timeframes, or that the same parameters should apply at the end as at the beginning. After all, MBA grads (from the selected 50-odd business schools) get 75 points for their degree qualification straightaway for initial approval, but thereafter only receive 35 points for that same degree in FLR, and there's no work-around for them either. AG

[apeterso925]

I don't suppose that there's any inherent reason that the ILR requirements should be necessarily coordinated with the HSMP timeframes, or that the same parameters should apply at the end as at the beginning. After all, MBA grads (from the selected 50-odd business schools) get 75 points for their degree qualification straightaway for initial approval, but thereafter only receive 35 points for that same degree in FLR, and there's no work-around for them either. AG

And going further with that logic, it seems safe to guess that the reason the value of their MBA degrees plummet 40 points when it comes time for FLR is this:

You are automatically allowed entrance into the HSMP program upon graduation from one of the schools listed because your very degree suggests significant potential in the workforce, so much so that any previous abilities are irrelevant.

But fast forward to FLR...if you've been in the UK on your original HSMP visa for 2 years and have done nothing with your MBA (as in, can't make up the now missing 40 points with income and perhaps age), then by the HO's definition, you did not live up to the potential they anticipated and are no longer highly-skilled. It's no longer enough that you have the degree, you should have done something with it by then.

Now, 40 points is quite a bit to expect in income...but it's a fair expectation and assumption that an MBA will allow a person to earn quite a bit. Especially if your degree is from a big name school, as all the schools on the list are.

By the same token, you might get into the HSMP by getting points for age, but the HO expects that after 2 years, you'll have increased your earnings by enough to no longer need the age points.

Now, if we were to get into a really deep conversation about the spirit of what is and is not truly highly-skilled, we could explore the fact that with the current point system, you cannot possibly qualify unless you have at least an undergraduate degree.

And I know more people than I can count who are far more intelligent and skilled than I will ever be and not only do they not have degrees, a few of them never graduated from compulsory schooling. Yet I am considered highly-skilled and they are not.

[adnantps]

"By the same token, you might get into the HSMP by getting points for age, but the HO expects that after 2 years, you'll have increased your earnings by enough to no longer need the age points.
"

please review this point....after 2 yrs the age brackets shift by 2 yrs n u get the same points for age u got initially + 5 points for working in the UK...

in my case i need 20 points in earning section when i file FLR after 2 yrs...

[apeterso925]

"By the same token, you might get into the HSMP by getting points for age, but the HO expects that after 2 years, you'll have increased your earnings by enough to no longer need the age points.
"

please review this point....after 2 yrs the age brackets shift by 2 yrs n u get the same points for age u got initially + 5 points for working in the UK...

in my case i need 20 points in earning section when i file FLR after 2 yrs...

I apologize! I stand corrected...I was sure that the age points stayed static for FLR, but it's been awhile since I looked at the FLR guidance notes. Meaning that I thought that if you were 32 by the time you applied for FLR, you got zero points for age.

But I just did and you're correct, the age brackets move by 2 years. Which actually seems odd to me...were I confident that it even matters (because in all likelihood there will be no HSMP in 2009 and so this particular FLR formula might be irrelevant), I'm selfishly glad...that means that all I (we) would have to do is maintain my initial earnings to gain the needed points.

That seems a bit generous though...I'm not sure it's true to say that if I didn't get a raise at all in 2 years, that I'm highly-skilled. Shouldn't I be expected to excel at least a little in my career in order to qualify for FLR?