Illegal in Italy

Northernjedi · Post by **Northernjedi** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:46 pm

Hello

I have been dating a lady from Moldova for almost 2 years. When we first met she made an application to come to England on a student visa but it was refused. She then made an appeal but again it was refused. Shortly after that she decided to go to Italy on a Szhenghen permit and has been living there for the last 18months. However, she has now overstayed on her Szheghen visa which now makes her an illegal immigrant. Her reason for going to Italy was because she heard that if she works and stays there long enough the Italian government will allow her to be naturalised as part of an immigration amnesty program (it has happened in the past). She is working in Italy as an Au-pair for a wealthy Italian family and they are telling her that they have applied for a residency permit for her and that she should continue to stay there until the permit arrives.

My questions are:

1) Is it possible that she will get a residency permit through "the back door " so to speak?

2) If she could get a permit how long would it take?

3) If she decides to fly out of Italy to go back home would the Italian authorities stamp her passport with "Deported" as she passes through passport control?

4) If she has her passport stamped as "deported" would this effect her application for a fiancee visa to come to the UK? Also, would this effect her right to re-enter Europe even if we are married?

Can any of you offer me any advice?

Many thanks

Dawie · Post by **Dawie** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:32 am

1) This is Italy, so ANYTHING is possible via the back door. Does this family have mafia or political connections? If so then it is possible that the residence permit will be a genuine one, but of course someone will have been bribed to make things go a bit smoother.

2) Well, depends on how big the bribe is.

3) They might

4) If they put any stamp or mark in her passport, she can just "lose" it and get a new one, and no one will be any the wiser.

Marco 72 · Post by **Marco 72** » Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:03 pm

Dawie wrote:1) This is Italy, so ANYTHING is possible via the back door. Does this family have mafia or political connections? If so then it is possible that the residence permit will be a genuine one, but of course someone will have been bribed to make things go a bit smoother.

It's not as easy as you think to bribe Italian officials. Even if it were, it doesn't sound like she's in a position to bribe anyone. The family she's working for has most likely no interest at all in her becoming a legal immigrant (for one thing, they would have to start paying her pension contributions). Much better for them if she stays illegally.

Last year there was some talk about an amnesty to legalise the position of those immigrants who had regular jobs, but as far as I know nothing came of it.

miel · Post by **miel** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:48 pm

I see you were discussing Italy my husband came to Italy illegally but has since been legalised so it can happen! Really anything can happen in Italy I have been going through their immigration laws for years and nothing ever makes sense ...I think Marco is right its better for her to stay illegal!

Northernjedi · Post by **Northernjedi** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:06 pm

miel wrote:I see you were discussing Italy my husband came to Italy illegally but has since been legalised so it can happen! Really anything can happen in Italy I have been going through their immigration laws for years and nothing ever makes sense ...I think Marco is right its better for her to stay illegal!

Hi Miel

How long did it take for your husband to become legalized?

Did he have to do anything special for it...i.e: marriage etc...?

Can you offer any advice for us?

Many thanks

Christophe · Post by **Christophe** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:46 pm

miel wrote:I think Marco is right its better for her to stay illegal!

I think Marco's point (if I understand him correctly) is that the family that she is working for might prefer it if she stayed as an illegal immigrant, because if her position was regularised they would have to pay pension contributions etc in addition to her salary.

Of course, that view might be doing the family an injustice (although - one has to ask - if that is not their thinking, why did they employ her, an illegal immigrant, in the first place!). Be that as it may, though, their preferences in the matter are not really relevant in terms of what she should be seeking to do.

Northernjedi · Post by **Northernjedi** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:56 pm

Hi Christophe

I agree with both you and Marco that her employers have much more to gain if my fiancee remains there illegally. They make an obvious saving on taxes and wages + they gain a totally dependent employee.

I/we just want to know how long this situation could last and what (if anything) can we do to help her gain her residency. Ultimately, I want her to come here and be with me in the UK but she is worried about having to return to Moldova first.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:18 pm

Northernjedi wrote:Hi Christophe

I agree with both you and Marco that her employers have much more to gain if my fiancee remains there illegally. They make an obvious saving on taxes and wages + they gain a totally dependent employee.

I/we just want to know how long this situation could last and what (if anything) can we do to help her gain her residency. Ultimately, I want her to come here and be with me in the UK but she is worried about having to return to Moldova first.

To be honest mate her best bet would be to go home and start there with a clean slate. Whilst it might be possible to regularise her stay in Italy it's gonna either take ages or never happen and prolly need the input of a solicitor.

Christophe · Post by **Christophe** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:24 pm

Northernjedi wrote:I/we just want to know how long this situation could last and what (if anything) can we do to help her gain her residency. Ultimately, I want her to come here and be with me in the UK but she is worried about having to return to Moldova first.

Serious question: is there a problem with her returning to Moldova? I know that there are questions about human rights there, but is she likely to have problems? I ask this because going back to Moldova would enable her to start the process of coming to the UK from a regular position and not from the weak position that she is in in Italy as an illegal immigrant.

Northernjedi · Post by **Northernjedi** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:46 pm

Christophe wrote:
Northernjedi wrote:I/we just want to know how long this situation could last and what (if anything) can we do to help her gain her residency. Ultimately, I want her to come here and be with me in the UK but she is worried about having to return to Moldova first.
Serious question: is there a problem with her returning to Moldova? I know that there are questions about human rights there, but is she likely to have problems? I ask this because going back to Moldova would enable her to start the process of coming to the UK from a regular position and not from the weak position that she is in in Italy as an illegal immigrant.

Hi Christophe/ Wanderer

There is no problem with her returning to Moldova at all. Her only issue is that she is worried that the British authorities may refuse our Fiancee visa because she overstayed in Italy and had 2 UK student visa applications refused.

Personally, I want her to go home and then make an application to come here so I agree with you guys. However, she doesn't want to take that risk because (as she sees it) she is has a better chance to get her residency in Italy if she stays. Additionally, I guess she's worried that if she goes home and then has a fiancee visa refused she is then stuck in Moldova! I can see why she is worried although I don't agree with her thinking. So now I'm just trying to get as much informed information as possible.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:58 pm

Northernjedi wrote:
Christophe wrote:
Northernjedi wrote:I/we just want to know how long this situation could last and what (if anything) can we do to help her gain her residency. Ultimately, I want her to come here and be with me in the UK but she is worried about having to return to Moldova first.
Serious question: is there a problem with her returning to Moldova? I know that there are questions about human rights there, but is she likely to have problems? I ask this because going back to Moldova would enable her to start the process of coming to the UK from a regular position and not from the weak position that she is in in Italy as an illegal immigrant.
Hi Christophe/ Wanderer

There is no problem with her returning to Moldova at all. Her only issue is that she is worried that the British authorities may refuse our Fiancee visa because she overstayed in Italy and had 2 UK student visa applications refused.

Personally, I want her to go home and then make an application to come here so I agree with you guys. However, she doesn't want to take that risk because (as she sees it) she is has a better chance to get her residency in Italy if she stays. Additionally, I guess she's worried that if she goes home and then has a fiancee visa refused she is then stuck in Moldova! I can see why she is worried although I don't agree with her thinking. So now I'm just trying to get as much informed information as possible.

A fiancee visa is near guaranteed, only a Spouse visa is more certain!

You just need to show:

1. It's not a marriage of convienicne

2. You can afford it

3. You have a place to live.

My not marry her in Moldova? Give her family sth to look forward to!! Spouse visa is better too since she can work straight away so she can pay for the visa fees!!

Northernjedi · Post by **Northernjedi** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:33 pm

Hi Wanderer

I've suggested ALL of the things that you have mentioned, however, she expects me to say these things because (as she sees it) I am in a position of confidence and security; my parnter doesn't share the same view unfortunately, hence, the reason why I am here.

Christophe · Post by **Christophe** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:53 pm

Northernjedi wrote:Hi Wanderer

I've suggested ALL of the things that you have mentioned, however, she expects me to say these things because (as she sees it) I am in a position of confidence and security; my parnter doesn't share the same view unfortunately, hence, the reason why I am here.

Don't know what to suggest really. Pity Miel won't post some more details of what happened there. My suspicion though (based on nothing in particular, really) is that it would take a long time for her to gain legal status in Italy.

I don't think that previous student visa refusals would prevent a fiancÃ©e visa or a spouse visa. I also think that it's more likely to be reasonably quick if she applies from her home country than in Italy where she has no proper status.

I can appreciate her point: it's easy to say these things when you're not in a vulnerable position. Equally, though, being in a vulnerable position doesn't necessarily mean that you think as clearly as you otherwise might. It's easy to allow a sort of low-level, chronic panic to take hold.

If she really wants to explore the possibility of getting herself legal status in Italy, I wonder if it would be worth paying for some professional advice - to find out, for example, whether it's likely to be possible in her circumstance, what is involved if it might be possible, the likely time frame, and so on. This would cost money, of course, and you might have to foot the bill, but perhaps it would be worth it.

Northernjedi · Post by **Northernjedi** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:18 pm

Thanks for the reply Christophe. You are hitting all the right notes with me and I've said all the same things to her too. Actually, there is some good news that she has decided to have a meeting with an Italian lawyer this week and hopefully he'll tell her what is possible and what is not.

She's been waiting for this "residency permit" for 18 months now and to be honest I have serious doubts that it will come. I've been very patient and supportive of her so far but I think now is the time to do things differently.

Her employers have scared her from leaving Italy by saying that she will have her passport stamped with "Deported" which I don't think will happen. They are also saying that they have applied for her legalisation but again I have my doubts about it. This has really played on her mind and is a major factor as to why she is still there!

miel · Post by **miel** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:15 am

So all..... I could not get on sooner!

First of all tell your partner to get out of Italy!!!!
they will never give her a visa for the UK from here...as when she gets her permesso di soggiorno it will have on it NOTHING no entry visa which means she entered illegally!!!!
even if they do eventually get round to giving her this permit...my husband has been waiting to be exact 5 YEARS and believe me he is not the only one!

The British embassy will not let grant her a visa! as they have also refused a friend of mines husband on this basis even though he has been here many years and had a permesso before they got married ...they have been married 2 and half years and still no SPOUSE VISA!

The Italian family are using your wife because they are not paying her taxes ...which in Italy mean she would get a lump sum in the summer and at the end of the year for holidays...believe it happens all the time here....and do not go to an immigration lawyer here they will just take money and in the end there is nothing they can really do!

Go back to Moldova get married and apply for a spouse visa!
Tell her not to fly out of Italy and there will be nothing on her passport!

Northernjedi · Post by **Northernjedi** » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:04 pm

Hi Miel

Many thanks for your reply, it's quite an eye-opener!

Miel, can I ask you a favour? Can I pass your email address to my partner so that she can contact you directly for more advice? I think that if she can speak with you then perhaps you can help her more than any Italian lawyer. She speaks very good Italian and English so you will have no problems.

My spare email address is: xxxxxxxxxxxxx

If you send your address there I will get it and forward it to my partner.

)

Many thanks for your help so far Miel

Post by **archigabe** » Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:23 pm

'Illegal in Italy' reminds me of this article I read on the BBC. Seems like the Italians have not formulated any straightforward policies to deal with migrant workers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6926181.stm?lsm

Northernjedi · Post by **Northernjedi** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:45 pm

Hello Archigabe

The article is relevant in some respects but equally a very, very different situation.

Thanks anyway

johnsienk · Post by **johnsienk** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:39 pm

vilkatis · Post by **vilkatis** » Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:50 pm

From what I've read about Italy, they occasionally grant an amnesty for people who can prove they've been illegally in the country for five years or more.

There is no current discussion about such an amnesty.

Also, in talks with the EU in the last year, it seems unlikely that Italy will not do this again in such a blanket fashion as in the past. There is talk about setting the stay at eight or ten years now, too.

If she stays in Italy now, it will be three or four years minimum. Maybe five or never.

This family that is stringing her along is, well, stringing her along.

Make marriage arrangements in Moldova. Get married. As advised, travel by land back rather than air. You can find many ways to get to Romania without presenting her passport, and getting across the Romanian border shouldn't be all that difficult.

Get everything set up, have her collect her final paycheck as if she will be working like normal in the morning, then leave without warning. She owes these creeps absolutely nothing .. they are seriously abusing her.

Your marriage will get her a UK spouse visa without any serious difficulties. It will be smoothest if there are no records of her overstay in Italy. Under the worst circumstances I've seen in this forum, she should be with you in the UK no later than four months after your marriage. It could be quite a bit faster than that. You seem to have plenty of proof regarding a long-term, serious relation.

-- vilkatis

ciaramc · Post by **ciaramc** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:26 pm

I also live in Italy and I can tell you that the chances of your girlfriend recieving her permit in one of these Amnesties is very unlikely...also VILK is right! it is better that there is no record of her in Italy!

Northernjedi · Post by **Northernjedi** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:14 pm

Just as an after thought, can anyone tell me if it is possible to marry my girlfriend in Italy ...even though she is there illegally?

She is too frightened to go back to Moldova because the Moldovan government are trying everything to prevent the mass exodus of their younger citizens (due to potential economic collapse) after many of their citizens has recently gained Romanian passports!

Richard66 · Post by **Richard66** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:37 am

I don't know about all these problems. I live in Italy and I married a Russian girl who had overstayed her schengen visa (in view of our marriage). We asked someone in power, before the visa expired, what to do. He flatly said: OVERSTAY, MARRY and APPLY FOR THE PERMIT; IT'S TOO COMPLICATED TO LEAVE. We did just that and married on a Wednesday at 12:30 am. By Thursday 12:00 (next day, not 5 years later, mind you). she had her residence card valid for 5 years from the date of issue of the Schengen visa. My advice is, marry her in Italy then apply for a spouse visa.

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Illegal in Italy

Illegal in Italy