Driving license

anishpadela · Post by **anishpadela** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:34 am

Hi

I have valid UAE Driving license for car..can I exchange it directly to UK driving license...or if I get International license from UAE, can I drive in UK..?? Do Insurance company object to give insurance to vehicles which are driven by international driving license holder....

Pls share some info.

Anees

Chess · Post by **Chess** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:47 am

anishpadela wrote:Hi

I have valid UAE Driving license for car..can I exchange it directly to UK driving license...or if I get International license from UAE, can I drive in UK..?? Do Insurance company object to give insurance to vehicles which are driven by international driving license holder....

Pls share some info.

Anees

Answers to some of your queries can be found at

www.dvla.gov.uk

MWazir · Post by **MWazir** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 9:28 am

You are allowed to drive on your international driving license for sure. Your insurance may be higher initially espically if you are a first time insurer or below the age of 25 years.

UK insurance companies also give no claim bonuses. Therefore if you havent made any claims from your insurance in the UAE or elsewhere (I think for 4 years), get those documents along as well and you should be paying much lesser insurance.

anishpadela · Post by **anishpadela** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:38 am

Thanks for the info...

Well unfortunately UAE license can not be converted to UK's so have to go for whole proceudre again....to pay lesser insurance I can bring no claims certificate from insurance company and age is above 25....

MWazir · Post by **MWazir** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:49 am

Get an international driving license made for the moment which will allow you to drive here. Once you are here, you can take your time and get a UK license.

try-one · Post by **try-one** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:31 pm

DVLA says that you are allowed to drive 12 months under your foreign license (valid full license) then you need to get the uk one.
They have a remporary license for uk learners, i suggest you get that one the moment you arrive.....(first months) and start preapring for the test....

MWazir · Post by **MWazir** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:34 pm

try-one wrote:DVLA says that you are allowed to drive 12 months under your foreign license (valid full license) then you need to get the uk one.
They have a remporary license for uk learners, i suggest you get that one the moment you arrive.....(first months) and start preapring for the test....

A driving instructor told me that once you have a UK driving license, even if it is provisional driving license, then you cannot use your foreign license any more. Check the DVLA to confirm.

Chess · Post by **Chess** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:37 pm

try-one wrote:DVLA says that you are allowed to drive 12 months under your foreign license (valid full license) then you need to get the uk one.
They have a remporary license for uk learners, i suggest you get that one the moment you arrive.....(first months) and start preapring for the test....

You are not allowed to obtain a Provisional Driving Licence or Full UK licence until you have been ordinarily resident in the UK for atleast 180 days

try-one · Post by **try-one** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 2:41 pm

Sorry,
The 180 days is a requisite and I'm not sure about provisional licenses affecting the international one..... I think it would be better to call the DVLA, in any case those guys are faster than the HSMP team.......

tvt · Post by **tvt** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 3:21 pm

The regulations say that you can drive with a foreign licence for a period of 12 months since your last arrival.

In theory therefore, whenever you go abroad and revisit the UK the clock is set to zero.

However, in "Flores" case the court held that when you become habitually resident in the UK you cannot gain another period of 12 months of foreign licence validity simply by reentring the UK and you must therefore hold a full UK driving licence.

However, case law precedents are only binding when they form a "ratio decidendi" based on the specific facts of the case. If the facts in your case are different, the implementation of the precedent can be different by distinguishing the case in question from the precedent. In Flores the Mexican foreign driver's licence has expired. He therefore held no valid driving licence at all.

hk_007 · Post by **hk_007** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:05 pm

tvt wrote:The regulations say that you can drive with a foreign licence for a period of 12 months since your last arrival.

In theory therefore, whenever you go abroad and revisit the UK the clock is set to zero.

The DVLA website says:Ordinary licence holders
Provided your full licence remains valid, you can drive any category of small vehicle shown on your licence for up to 12 months from the time you became resident.

So going out of the UK and returning after a visit for example will not set the clock to zero. The clock effectively begins from the day you entered the UK with purpose of taking up a job or setting up business etc. If your visa expires and you leave UK and return even the next week on another visa, then you could argue that you are starting a new residency period.

tvt · Post by **tvt** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:51 pm

DVLA is not a source of law yet but a governmental agency with no legislative or judicial powers . I quoted the authoritative regulation. Please read my message in its entirety to find out that the case law (Flores is the only relevant case) points to DVLA interpretation and my view that this case law is not completely binding. I am sorry, as a lawyer I can only rely on official legislation at source not on web sites however respectable they might be.

hk_007 · Post by **hk_007** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:01 pm

Where can the authoritative regulation in print be obtained? This could help thousands of people who hold a valid drivers licence from their home countries but pay out hundreds of pounds to get the UK licence in the belief that DVLA regulations are valid.

If what you say holds up in the court of law then what prevents anybody with a valid foreign national licence to set the clock to zero at will by going out and coming into the UK again and thereby not bothering to get a UK licence.

tvt · Post by **tvt** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 2:18 pm

The regulation says:

"2) Subject to the provisions of this Article, it shall be lawful for a person resident outside the United Kingdom who is temporarily in Great Britain and holds—
(a) a Convention driving permit, or

(b) a domestic driving permit issued in a country outside the United Kingdom, during a period of twelve months from the date of his last entry into the United Kingdom to drive, or for any person to cause or permit such a person to drive, in Great Britain—
(i) in the case of any such person who is resident in a Member State of the European Economic Community, any public service vehicle or heavy goods vehicle; and

(ii) in the case of any other such person, a public service vehicle or heavy goods vehicle brought temporarily into Great Britain, which he is authorised by that permit to drive, notwithstanding that he is not the holder either of such a licence as is required by section 22 of the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981[9], or of such a licence as is required by section 10 of the said Act of 1988."

The regulation counts 12 months from last entry to the UK not from when you became resident.

The question is what the words "resident" & "temporary" mean. There is no definition for the word "resident" in the regulation. You can still claim that by definition if you don't have an ILR status / EU /
UK citizen your stay in the UK is only temporary.

In addition the panctuation of the regulation is so ambiguous, that you can always claim (in criminal cases any doubt is playing for you) that the 12 months period relates to the time of issuance of the "domestic driving permit issued in a country outside the United Kingdom" but not to "a Convention driving permit". Convention driving licence is an International Driving Licence. If that is the case, an international (Convention) driving licence is not subject to the 12 months capping.

hk_007 · Post by **hk_007** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:12 pm

What if one agrees to make UK their main home and begin to live in the UK as in case of HSMP visa holders, does that not make them residents at least for the period they are here?

On another note, as a lawyer what would you say it costs (lawyer fees and other associated fees/charges) a person on HSMP using a valid foreign licence after 12 months of entering the UK if taken to court by police/DVLA, but wins the case? Just trying to figure out if it would be cheaper for people to pay £300-£500 in trying to get a UK licence or be taken to court.

tvt · Post by **tvt** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:05 pm

It will definitely cost you more to defend your case, unless you are on legal aid. The main problem, as I see it, is not with the police but with motor insurance validity.

try-one · Post by **try-one** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:46 pm

The problem here is that no insurance company is going to cover you if you don't have a full UK driving license......and you can't drive without insurance, that's ilegal.....

f2k · Post by **f2k** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:51 pm

other than the cost, if you can drive it should be straight forward enough to get a licence there really is no need to try any scams

try-one · Post by **try-one** » Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:10 pm

I read the report on the mexican and it is too dangerous, if you go to a web site from any of the insurance companies you can get insurance, but if you have bad luck and get into an accident, then you will have to pay for damages, for the person, police will book you for driving without license, without insurance and even for insurance fraud, plus the insurance company will get you too...
be patient, use a rental car, they are covered by their insurance and your drivers license is valid, then get the full UK license and stay legal...NOT WORTHIT....if this board should work for something it should be to help people avoid mistakes that would cost a lot....

tvt · Post by **tvt** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:36 am

I strongly agree with you.

hk_007 · Post by **hk_007** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:37 pm

Issues are being confused here. We are not talking about scams or avoidances. It is a question of how the law is applied.

try-one....you will get insurance cover for your car but there might be a higher premium since the foreign licence is being used. And, if the licence is not valid for using a private car it will also be not valid to use a rental car. For the sake of argument, if the law recognises the individual to be "temporarily" present in the country since he/she does not have ILR status then it can be argued that the insurance provider must also use that definition to determine residential status and hence the validity of the licence and therefore the person is covered.

However, as tvt mentioned it would be cheaper to get a UK licence rather than go to court. The choice then becomes obvious.

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