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Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, CR001, zimba, meself2, Administrator
if i were you, i would become a member of http://www.hsmpforumltd.com ASAP and also apply for ILR, knowing very well you will be refused ILR, but you can appeal the decision in AIT (asylum and immigration tribunal) on human rights grounds / breach of european convention on human rights to which UK is a signatory and it is a binding convention and also breach of 'legitimate expectation' based on guarantees given by UK govt in guidance notes of original HSMP scheme.SYH wrote:That's nice but what concrete action are they going to do to rectify the situation.
For me, its more about the 4 to5 year rule for ILR. When I applied, that was one of the main reasons because it took only 4 years to get ILR and I would get more stability in my life sooner than later. This extension is wreaking havoc on my life.
No freaking way, my 5 year mark is in october why would I apply to get it involved in some administrative black hole.vinay shanthi wrote: if i were you, i would become a member of http://www.hsmpforumltd.com ASAP and also apply for ILR, knowing very well you will be refused ILR, but you can appeal the decision in AIT (asylum and immigration tribunal) on human rights grounds / breach of european convention on human rights to which UK is a signatory
even if the govt does not listen. mostly i think this is what they will do. personally i think this will be decided in courts only. the 3 Judicial reveiws i have mentioned in my message above. AIT cases are important only for the individual involved. they do not become precedents. that is why the JRs are important as they will become legal precedents. the govt is very cunning, that is why it has not appealed the tribunal decisions in higher courts. they dont want to risk losing a case and create a precedent, whereby others will more easily win cases. even when they told candidates winning in AIT that they will appeal decision, subsequently they have back tracked and given visas in order not to create a precedent.bani wrote:Thanks for the link. That is great news! What happens now? Will Brown and Byrne finally listen? This isn't the first time the HSMP changes were criticised (by Dismore, by a number of MPs, by Livingstone, etc.) and they somehow manage to weasel excuses each time. Does the joint committee have authority to revert the HSMP rules? Especially the 4 to 5 rule change? This is also what is most upsetting to me. And I like the analogy of goal posts being moved during a match, that is exactly how I feel.
best of luck for you ILR / naturalisation in octoberSYH wrote:No freaking way, my 5 year mark is in october why would I apply to get it involved in some administrative black hole.vinay shanthi wrote: if i were you, i would become a member of http://www.hsmpforumltd.com ASAP and also apply for ILR, knowing very well you will be refused ILR, but you can appeal the decision in AIT (asylum and immigration tribunal) on human rights grounds / breach of european convention on human rights to which UK is a signatory
At this point, if they some how declare that it shouldn't have been changed, the remedy would be that I could apply for citizenship straight away.
Have you taken the Life in the UK test yet? Which one will you go for - old version or new?SYH wrote:No freaking way, my 5 year mark is in october why would I apply to get it involved in some administrative black hole.vinay shanthi wrote: if i were you, i would become a member of http://www.hsmpforumltd.com ASAP and also apply for ILR, knowing very well you will be refused ILR, but you can appeal the decision in AIT (asylum and immigration tribunal) on human rights grounds / breach of european convention on human rights to which UK is a signatory
At this point, if they some how declare that it shouldn't have been changed, the remedy would be that I could apply for citizenship straight away.
Already took it and I think only the new version is available now.sakura wrote:Have you taken the Life in the UK test yet? Which one will you go for - old version or new?SYH wrote:No freaking way, my 5 year mark is in october why would I apply to get it involved in some administrative black hole.vinay shanthi wrote: if i were you, i would become a member of http://www.hsmpforumltd.com ASAP and also apply for ILR, knowing very well you will be refused ILR, but you can appeal the decision in AIT (asylum and immigration tribunal) on human rights grounds / breach of european convention on human rights to which UK is a signatory
At this point, if they some how declare that it shouldn't have been changed, the remedy would be that I could apply for citizenship straight away.
I hear the English is quite bad in the official book - confusing syntax and stuff.
picking battles is important. in your case i understand you are close to the finsih line.SYH wrote:[Already took it and I think only the new version is available now.
Also picking your battles is iimportant in dealing with the HO, which is why I dont' understand why people are trying to force the issue with TOEFL, just take the stupid Life in the UK test, yeah it sucks to do it if you are already proficient but that's the way the cookie crumbles
The UK test isn't so hard, right?SYH wrote:Already took it and I think only the new version is available now.sakura wrote:Have you taken the Life in the UK test yet? Which one will you go for - old version or new?SYH wrote:No freaking way, my 5 year mark is in october why would I apply to get it involved in some administrative black hole.vinay shanthi wrote: if i were you, i would become a member of http://www.hsmpforumltd.com ASAP and also apply for ILR, knowing very well you will be refused ILR, but you can appeal the decision in AIT (asylum and immigration tribunal) on human rights grounds / breach of european convention on human rights to which UK is a signatory
At this point, if they some how declare that it shouldn't have been changed, the remedy would be that I could apply for citizenship straight away.
I hear the English is quite bad in the official book - confusing syntax and stuff.
Also picking your battles is iimportant in dealing with the HO, which is why I dont' understand why people are trying to force the issue with TOEFL, just take the stupid Life in the UK test, yeah it sucks to do it if you are already proficient but that's the way the cookie crumbles
Yeah I think the test is a breeze, I read the book, made some crib notes boiling down the essential elements based on the practice tests. I'd sell the crib notes for pound if it wasn't against the rules to advertisesakura wrote:The UK test isn't so hard, right?SYH wrote:Already took it and I think only the new version is available now.sakura wrote:Have you taken the Life in the UK test yet? Which one will you go for - old version or new?SYH wrote: No freaking way, my 5 year mark is in october why would I apply to get it involved in some administrative black hole.
At this point, if they some how declare that it shouldn't have been changed, the remedy would be that I could apply for citizenship straight away.
I hear the English is quite bad in the official book - confusing syntax and stuff.
Also picking your battles is iimportant in dealing with the HO, which is why I dont' understand why people are trying to force the issue with TOEFL, just take the stupid Life in the UK test, yeah it sucks to do it if you are already proficient but that's the way the cookie crumbles
Compare that to the US test! Wow, I saw some of the questions...I'd actually happily take it, probably because I'd like to know that kind of stuff anyway (well, I had taken some practise tests just to see...I think I got about 50-60% of the answers right!). But that one is complex.
BTW the links aren't working, vinay...
Also, I'd like to see exactly what the committee can do about things. Many government committees complain about the government's actions everyday, but it doesn't mean things change because they point to the ECHR or HRA.
hey banibani wrote:Thanks for all the info, Vinay. I'm glad that this will boost the JR's. I have contributed to the VBSI one, and will do the same for the HSMPForum.
I have questions about the AIT's. How long do they take to process? And if a person is refused ILR (after the 4 years), could he continue to work while the appeal is going on? I'm just wondering how disruptive it is.
Why did the old hsmp forum split into 2 forums?vinay shanthi wrote: DONT NOT DONATE TO hsmpforum www.hsmpforum.com that is the old forum the barclays bank account is in a few individuals names and they are presently not releasing money for JR.
check out the detailed discussions on both the new and old forums. waste of time repeating it here. so please check out the discussions over this on new forum. legal efforts are underway as far as i am aware to get the funds stuck in barclays bank account controlled by some individuals on old forum and not being released presently for JR. funds were collected initially by the old forum which clearly mentioned on their website about fund collection for JR. now conveniently the old forum has deleted all reference to the JR in the fund collection drive on the old forum website. witnesses who have contributed to old forum will back this. ask people who contributed to old forum account and later banned from old forum for asking queries regarding money. the new forum is owned by the UK registered limited company and so is the new bank account so that there is accountability. see new forum on www.hsmpforumltd.comolisun wrote:Why did the old hsmp forum split into 2 forums?vinay shanthi wrote: DONT NOT DONATE TO hsmpforum www.hsmpforum.com that is the old forum the barclays bank account is in a few individuals names and they are presently not releasing money for JR.
Thanks for the reply..vinay shanthi wrote:check out the detailed discussions on both the new and old forums. waste of time repeating it here. so please check out the discussions over this on new forum. legal efforts are underway as far as i am aware to get the funds stuck in barclays bank account controlled by some individuals on old forum and not being released presently for JR. funds were collected initially by the old forum which clearly mentioned on their website about fund collection for JR. now conveniently the old forum has deleted all reference to the JR in the fund collection drive on the old forum. witnesses who have contributed to old forum will back this. ask people who contributed to old forum account and later banned from old forum for asking queries regarding money. the new forum is owned by the UK registered limited company and so is the new bank account so that there is accountability. see new forum on www.hsmpforumltd.comolisun wrote:Why did the old hsmp forum split into 2 forums?vinay shanthi wrote: DONT NOT DONATE TO hsmpforum www.hsmpforum.com that is the old forum the barclays bank account is in a few individuals names and they are presently not releasing money for JR.
also there will be an evidence trail for any money transactions through banks in uk and also even if websites are altered subsequently i am sure police has resources to track this down. also attempts at changing the directorship of UK registered companies by falsifying signatures is a serious fradulent activity by certain individuals as i have been made aware by new forum leaders, a few complaints have been registered with the body registering companies in UK by the registered company that runs the new forum, with the body registering companies as there were repeated attempts to hijack the ownership of the www.hsmpforumltd.com i.e the UK registered company that owns the new forum by falsifying signatures and documents as i have been made aware. so it is only a matter of time before the law catches up with those involved in illegal activities, same goes for their associates . time can be a great leveller . remember even if the persons doing this have ILR etc their visas can be revoked for criminal acts when convicted if it gets to that. i hope it gets to that and these people get deported as well. good riddance from these nefarious persons.olisun wrote:vinay shanthi wrote:Thanks for the reply..olisun wrote:
Unfortunately there are some kids on the new forum as well who just ban people for voicing their thoughts.
Thank goodness we don't have those here...
the UK is a signatory to the european convention on human rights and it is a binding convention and it superceeds any provisions in uk law violating humanrights of immigrants or anyone else with retrospective laws. this is a separate recourse outside of UK courts as well. see my posts on www.vbsi.org.uk about international conventions protecting migrants also see vbsi submission to parliament document. this option is on the cards as well for future legal action if the govt does not back down following the report.geoffsinclair wrote:The Joint Committee's report speaks almost exclusively about HSMP and states clearly that the changes to the HSMP rules must be corrected. The Government however will argue that it has an inherent right via the Immigration Act, to make any necessary changes. The fact that there was always a clause in the HSMP which states that a further application is needed to obtain an extension of leave, allows the Home Office to decide on the length of this extended leave - i.e they can change it from 4 to 5 years, thus avoiding retrospective application.
Liam Byrne admits that retrospective application is against the principle of fairness, therefore it seems to me that those who were under a visa category, such as a work permit, may have a more solid argument against retrospective changes to the rules, since those persons entered the UK without an "update" clause, but were lead to believe that making the UK their main home and remaining economically active over a continuous period of 4 years would lead to permanent settlement. This report is an unequivocal victory for HSMP holders, they have been put through too much arbitrary legal nonsense and this will act as a great persuasive tool not only in terms of public perception but also in law and may act as a catalyst for the Home Office to repent for its sins (thought I wouldn’t bet on it).
My sincerest hope is that VBSI continues to argue for the position against the ILR 4 to 5 rule changes as this encompasses all employment related categories, as mentioned in the report Para 17, including HSMP. Those entering the UK on an employment related category prior to 2006 should not be subjected to retrospective application of the law. I am in agreement with the argument put forward by the Dinsmore Chaired Committee, stating that it contravenes the Article 8 (ECHR) right to private and family life.