Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to ECJ

[Praha]

Yes of course, I will write an email to the airline to inform them that I am about to buy a flight ticket and travel to Luton and ask them what all documents I shoul bring with me.

In the european convention, is it written that an RC holder must travel with their spouse?

[rogerlongships]

You must be travelling with, or joining your spouse. Its more unusual for the spouse to be travelling after the non EU, but not an impossible situation, and immigration will take evidence that your wife will be joining you later into consideration.
Dont be surprised if the airline say you need a visa.

[Kolner_Mike]

Just to be clear on this. Does this mean my Wife (Non-EEA Thai) who holds a German Residence Card. Can fly back and forth to the UK and Ireland (Dublin) without applying for a daft EEA Family Permit every 6 months?

Please say it's so!

[rogerlongships]

Sounds like you are in luck. The UK is accepting residence cards from Germany and Estonia at present without the need of an EEA permit. It would still be wise to check with any airline before travel that they will let you board. Normally email confirmation from an adviser on the airlines helpline would get you through the gate.

[Kolner_Mike]

Thank you Sir. That's just the info I was looking for.
And she can travel without me? For sure?
And Ireland is also fine with this? (she has a flight booked to Dublin later this month)

[Kolner_Mike]

As an aside. My Wife had a German RC issued in Jan 2011. It was a flimsy, folded green piece of card with her photo and written almost entirely in German. Stapled in her passport and valid for 5 years.
We were at the Auslanderamt about 6 weeks ago taking care of some other stuff and the staff there told us we should apply for the new RC. By this stage the green one had started to deteriorate. Having been scrutinised and manhandled by countless Immigration Officials. Now they did charge us something for the new card I think. It may have been €25. We supplied a biometric photo. They captured my Wife's prints and helped us fill in the application form. We were told this is processed in Berlin and we would receive a letter with the PIN and PUK codes for the card. (this is for certain websites were you can use the card as a means of authentication, like a digital signature) Once this letter arrived, we should wait 2 weeks and go pickup the card from the Auslanderamt.
Whole thing went exactly as described and she now has a nice fancy plastic card. Which she shows to all her friends

[rogerlongships]

The non EU is supposed to be travelling with or joining their spouse. If you was in the country already and your wife was to follow, that would seem to be more "normal" to immigration. I only travel with my wife, and i would not be surprised if she was refused entry if travelling alone, even if she is entitled to. The UK Border Agents are not encouraged to oblige EU law and lone travellers have a disadvantage unless you can be at the airport waiting. I dont see why there should be an issue with Ireland, but always worth asking. I have not yet met an airline check in person who is aware of EU law, most of the rules they have to follow come from the machine on the desk which normally says your wife needs a visa (depending on the airline). Best to sort out before arriving at the airport, or as a last resort if refused, ask to see the airports head immigration officer, who should confirm that your wife cannot be REFUSED leave of the country with a valid passport, wether she has a visa or not. EU case law in this is on your side. Good luck.

[Kolner_Mike]

She will be travelling with our 2 year old Daughter. Who holds a UK Passport. If that makes any difference?

[dalebutt]

If you are a British Citizen in Germany, the UKVI still require that your family member apply for an EEA-FP before visiting the UK, if they are a visa national. Your family member can visit Ireland.

[Obie]

That cannot be right, as Brits who have exercised treaty rights, are in the same position as any other EU citizens.

The case of McCarthy sort of dealt with that in its opinion.

[dalebutt]

I concur that in law it is not sustainable, but that is still the official position of the UKVI.

[rogerlongships]

As previously mentioned, its always a good idea to contact the airline you are flying with in advance, let them know that your spouse has the right under EU law to travel without an EEA FP, and can be cleared at the border.It is a reasonable reason in some cases that you cannot wait for a EEA FP to be issued, and need to travel. They (airline) usual response may be that they will be fined if landing anyone without a visa; from my own fredom of information request no such fines have ever been issued to family members who have the right under EU law. The UK has no right to deny a person with a valid passport leave of another country. You may still have problems, then revert to the immigration at Bratislava to say you are being denied leave of the country. Depending on who you speak with, they should support your rights under EU law, or be guilty of breaking it. Sad to say a lot of officials are unaware of some rights, so its helpfull to have documents and case law to help persude them to assist you. If you get refused by anyone/everyone, you have the right for a full written explanation as to why you are being refused, specifically ask what part of EU law you are of in breach off.

[bescotian]

I am a UK passport holder who has retired to Crete. My wife, who is Russian, lives with me in MY house in Agios Nikolaos..she has a Greek Residence Card.
When we last visited UK my wife had a visa, but we were told at Gatwick Airport by UKBA staff that we could apply for an EEA permit, even though I specified that I was not working in Greece and was retired. He said that the employment status did not matter.
We are going back to UK in March next year and, as the time and cost of actually trying to get a visa from Athens..yes, ATHENS, (even though the UK has a Consulate Office only 60km from my house, we both have to fly to Athens, stay overnight and fly back...€200+), we are looking the possiblity of taking all of our evidence with us to UK
On reading, "Well, after a lot of aggrivation just getting tickets, and being held onboard ship for 6 hours waiting to be landed by UKBA, my Russian wife was admitted to the UK on a code 3, with just our passports, marriage certificate and Swedish resident permits.", I wonder if this is possible?
As long as we contact the airline and tell them of "our right", is this possible?
ANYONE???

[rogerlongships]

I have only ever had confirmation from an Easy Jet operative that we could fly without an EEA Family Permit, but i also had a letter from the local UK Embassy stating that although we should have no problem gaining access at the border, they took no responsibilty of saying we could actually get on a plane,quoting "they have their own guidelines" . We have the same issue of travelling to the otherside of the country to get a permit we are not legally (under EU law) obliged to have,and waiting for a month for what supposed to be issued on an expediated basis is a joke.
If you are prepared to put in hours of time talking to people ,then its quite possible, you just need copies of everything to show anyone who questions your rights.
We did actually get an apology for the long wait. UKBA generally are not going to assist you entry without a visa, and airlines have refused us travel despite the evidence shown to them they would be in breach of law, which is normally the point emails are never responded to, and i have put in several petitions with the EC with breach of EU law by airlines involved,though it seems the court is very lax on enforcing the rights of free movement when it comes to the system the airlines use for visa/immigration purposes.

[bescotian]

So, you seem have been in the same situation as me, having a Russian wife and living in the EU. Although I'm retired, not classed as "working ", but self sufficient, do you think that if I can get an email from the airline stating that they are prepared to carry us to the UK, especially as they would be in breach ok EU law if refusing access to the flight, AND I make sure that I have the original house deeds, bank details, marriage certificate with apostile, letter of invitation stating where and when we would be staying in UK, together with flight details.....that this is an option....I really think that my wife is entitled to an EEA permit under EU law....?
I just hope that someone can try and make it easier for us as a weekend in Athens, plus the cost of hotel etc, is just a ridiculous amount!!!

[rogerlongships]

If you can get to the border,they can only refuse entry under health and danger to the public clauses. The UK seems to have updated their version off EEA rules to refer to someone who is "economically active" in another EU state, but the ECJ have already stated that this would deny free movement to many who are retired or economically independant. Defintely worth contacting the airline to check the response.

[bescotian]

Thanks for that support!! I have also contacted Europe Direct and their workers, after taking advice from their lawyers, state,
"Thank you for your message.
Based on the information provided, we have not been able to determine why your non-EU spouse should not be entitled to an EEA family permit.
As you were already informed in our previous reply (case number 923016), information applicable to pensioners living in an EU country other than the one they are a national of and their non-EU family members is available but, the UK's updated version of EEA rules with reference to someone who is "economically active" in another EU state, but the ECJ have already stated that this is in breach of EU Law."

I'm going to try and find the actual nubers of the laws, if I can, and then quote them to the airline when I write....hopefully they'll accept this and let me get my wife to the UK border.....here's hoping!!

[mama3]

I just refused yesterday at Galsgow International Airport to travel to Poland by Wizzair airlines. I am married with Polish guy and I hold a UK Permanent Residence Card. Before I book ticket to Poland I emailed Visa Dept in London to ask if I need a visa to travel to Poland with My Uk PRC, tthe london polish consulte/embassy emailed back to with the list of visa reqiuremqnt forr family member of the EU nationals. The email said on the basis of Directive 2004/38/EC, you do not need a visa to enter Poland if you fulfill the folloeing conditions:
1) You are a family mememer of EU means: Spouse, descendant of EU citizen under age of 21
2) You are holder of: Uk Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National
30 You are travelling together with the EU citizen to Poland or joining the EU citizen in Poland
Please make sure you hold the original of the document proving the family ties with EU citizen( e.g marriage or birth certificate) when crossing Polish border.
I meet all the above conditio, I had the email fro the visa dept, but still Wizzair the flight was suppose to flight with refused to takeme. The servceair peole tried to use KLM and see if they will accept, but no it was the same story.
I was joing my husband(Polish ) and the kids in Poland.
I felt helpless and useless, its was in the eveinh departure was 20:55, so I couldnt even try to contact embasyy to clarify to them. The check in lady phone Poland in Warsaw they all said I need Schengen visa to enter Poland. I am really lost , dont know what to do appeal or what. I lived in Aberdeen so back to Aberdeen completely sad and upset as it is said clearly.

[rogerlongships]

sorry to hear that. Both Wizzair and KLM re clearly in breach of EU law, and you should report both of them. You should also report Wizzair for denying you leave of the UK if you have a valid passport. You should complain to the head immigration officer at the airport involved, to the airlines head office, report the breach of EU law to Solvit, and you could also open a petition with the European Commission. As you have a permenet residence permit in the UK, you should also take this up with your local Euro MP. I hope you aked for an explanation in writing that you are entitled to after being refused.

[iyomski]

I am a British national and married to a Nigerian we have a nine months old baby. My husband has been detained by the home office since the 7/07/2014. Let me try and give a brief details. my husband was convicted for sham marriage and served a 21 months prison sentence. he was issued a deportation order and removed from the UK in 2012. all of these happened before him and I got married last year. We've been living Spain since last July last year and he was issued with a 5 years eea family member residence card by the Spanish authorities because I was working there. On our way to the UK on the 7th he was stopped and arrested for illegal entry.
I thought the deportation order is no longer in force since hes now an eea family and member and has a card that shows that?

Any suggestions will be appreciated please

Thanks

[dalebutt]

I am a British national and married to a Nigerian we have a nine months old baby. My husband has been detained by the home office since the 7/07/2014. Let me try and give a brief details. my husband was convicted for sham marriage and served a 21 months prison sentence. he was issued a deportation order and removed from the UK in 2012. all of these happened before him and I got married last year. We've been living Spain since last July last year and he was issued with a 5 years eea family member residence card by the Spanish authorities because I was working there. On our way to the UK on the 7th he was stopped and arrested for illegal entry.
I thought the deportation order is no longer in force since hes now an eea family and member and has a card that shows that?

Any suggestions will be appreciated please

Thanks

DO may be invalid if it isn't in accordance with regulation 20 or Article 27, one will have to know on what basis DO was issued, if it doesn't comply then detention may be unlawful. Detention may be justified if the UKVI can prove that he met the criteria in those regulation. 21 months seems an awful lot for a person convicted of sham marriage, are you sure that was the only crime he was convicted of? Pejury and obtaining leave to remain by deception?

[Obie]

I am a British national and married to a Nigerian we have a nine months old baby. My husband has been detained by the home office since the 7/07/2014. Let me try and give a brief details. my husband was convicted for sham marriage and served a 21 months prison sentence. he was issued a deportation order and removed from the UK in 2012. all of these happened before him and I got married last year. We've been living Spain since last July last year and he was issued with a 5 years eea family member residence card by the Spanish authorities because I was working there. On our way to the UK on the 7th he was stopped and arrested for illegal entry.
I thought the deportation order is no longer in force since hes now an eea family and member and has a card that shows that?

Any suggestions will be appreciated please

Thanks

This is not the right forum for that.

Have you been given a right of appeal? and why did they say he was detained?

[londonimm1]

Dear Iyomski,

I would like to make contact regarding this matter and would welcome the opportunity of investigating the circumstances of your husbands detention by the UK authorities.

Hope to hear from you soon
londonimm1

[bobikaa]

Hi, Can please someone help me with my problem ... One year ago when I come to UK borders they refussed me entry to country, because I was separated with my ex-wife and sent me back to my country (in that time I held EEA residence card issued in UK) ... Now, I am married again (we lived together with my current wife in England before my removed and we were together on borders when they removed me and she come back with me) ...She is also EEA national and I have EEA residence card as her spouse. We asked one month ago for EEA family permit but they refused my application, because of absent my divorce certificate, they think that I am still married with my ex-wife. But it is absoluttely nonsene. I enclosed my original marriage certificate with apostille and in any EU country you can not be married without previously enclosed divorce certificate! I can re-apply and enclose my original divorce certificate but the problem is that we don´t have time to wait another month on decision. So I need to know when I come at borders with my wife, and with all documents as a marriage certificate, divorce certificate ..and with my EEA residence card if they can refuse me enter to country and sent me back or if I can get ban to entry ? (because it will be the second time to come there without visa) ... I think that under the EU law they can not do it, but on the other side they accept residence cards issued just in UK.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I am a UK passport holder who has retired to Crete. My wife, who is Russian, lives with me in MY house in Agios Nikolaos..she has a Greek Residence Card.
When we last visited UK my wife had a visa, but we were told at Gatwick Airport by UKBA staff that we could apply for an EEA permit, even though I specified that I was not working in Greece and was retired. He said that the employment status did not matter.
We are going back to UK in March next year and, as the time and cost of actually trying to get a visa from Athens..yes, ATHENS, (even though the UK has a Consulate Office only 60km from my house, we both have to fly to Athens, stay overnight and fly back...€200+), we are looking the possiblity of taking all of our evidence with us to UK
On reading, "Well, after a lot of aggrivation just getting tickets, and being held onboard ship for 6 hours waiting to be landed by UKBA, my Russian wife was admitted to the UK on a code 3, with just our passports, marriage certificate and Swedish resident permits.", I wonder if this is possible?
As long as we contact the airline and tell them of "our right", is this possible?
ANYONE???

Getting on the plane for somebody who would normally require a visa is the problem. If you were driving to the UK it would be somewhat more straight forward.

http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/ has details about travel without a visa as the spouse of an EU citizen