Decision letter received today

[santiago1974]

Hey Bigapple, congratulations, I went today to Garda, they did not know what to do with the paper from the Department of Justice, they gave me the card for one year but I unfortunately got stamp 3. They called the Deaprtment of Justice and they told me tey were advice to do so. I iwll appeal and see what happens.

[limey]

Congratulations BigApple!

[efrenirvana]

Bora

[SYH]

HURRAH! I finally received my letter from DOJ today!!! I wasn't granted residence, but I did get a Stamp 4, which permits me to reside and work in Ireland. For me, that's better than nothing, at least for my situation! I don't have the time right now, but I am going to write out everything I did. Maybe something helped me get a Stamp 4 rather than just an outright denial. Wishing you all the best!!!

what about your wife's standing?

[yankeegirl]

I'm guessing it was the BigApple half that posted the good news

[Erik84]

I have quite a follow up here:

Tuesday
We received our rejection letter.
Thursday
We went to the immigration council who helped us fax a letter to the EU treaty rights section pointing out that my wife has a residence permit to Sweden, demanding to overturn the current decision and demanding to handle the issue urgently. We also faxed a copy of my wife's residence permit.
We went to GNIB to sort things out but didnt even get a ticket number by a very unfriendly guy behind the counter.
The EU treaty rights section called us (yes it's true) saying that they hadnt received the copy of the residence permit, and that they would review our application. I answered that the copy was faxed a moment after the main fax and that it should have arrived and asked how long time the review would take. They said it would take a few weeks.
Friday
We went to the immigration council who told us to try again at GNIB, this time with the fax sent on Thursday which we forgot to bring the previous day.
This time a lady at the ticket counter told us to bring my wife's birth certificate. We went home, got the birth cert, remade the ticket queue, got a ticket, waited 2 hours for our number, and were told that GNIB couldnt do anything without a decision from the DoJ.
Monday
Lo and behold, at about 11 o'clock we received a letter from the EU Treaty Rights section saying that my wife was granted her EU treaty rights and that she would get a 5 year EU family residence permit.
We went to GNIB, waited 2 hours and were told that GNIB had not yet received the approval letter - all they knew about was the rejection letter from Tuesday. They tried to call the EU Treaty section but told us they couldnt get through and advised us to come back next week.

[BigAppleWoodenShoe]

Ok, so it's taken me a few days, but I am finally posting my story. I want to do this since the difference between total rejection versus Stamp 4 seems totally arbitrary.

So, WoodenShoe and I were married in December 2006 in America. I moved to Ireland in January 2007, so we weren't even married a full month. (BTW, we have no children.) Since I am American, I did not need a visitor visa to enter. However, my visitor visa did expire while I was waiting for my decision letter.

I applied for my residence card within a week from when I first came to Ireland. After about a month or two, my husband had to make an emergency trip to NL. I only had to call two times, and all my original documents were sent back to me in about two weeks.

After officially waiting six months, I immediately filed a complaint with the Irish Solvit and the Dutch Solvit. At first, the Dutch Solvit said they could not help, but later, they asked for my reference number so they could contact the DOJ. From the sounds of it, they were petitioning on our behalf.

I did send in the originals of all my documents that they asked for on the EU-1. However, as I mentioned before, I sent in additional documents a few months later. I sent in my health insurance cards, a letter from a university that agreed to hire me part-time upon approval, and a new contract for my husband's job. I added a letter and sent it registered post. Send everything registered post!!!

Other people made more of a racket than I did. But I think sending in other documents that you think may be pertinent is helpful. Send in whatever you think could help a ruling in your favor.

PM if you need any more information. I tried to be a little more specific about our case, but I can't help to wonder why some are approved and some are denied. Given, I did not receive a residence card...but at this point I just wanted a visa. BTW, they said my Stamp can be renewed in two years....so if WS and I decide to stay longer, we really shouldn't have any issues.

My thoughts and prayers are with you all...I want to thank everyone for all the support I have received on this site!!!

[Dimy77]

Thanks for the information, we applied for EU1 in May so are not yet at 6 months, but when that day comes we'll contact the dutch (and Irish) Solvit as well.
You should send a copy of your decision letter to the Immigration Council, because they have absolutely no clue what's going on and didn't know anything about people who were rejected a residence card but received Stamp 4. Your case gave us some hope again after the recent debacle with spousal work permits.... So thanks for sharing.

P.S. You should update your signature

[megmog]

Has anyone else noticed that that case of bigapplewoodenshoe and platimun are very similar - both involving one american party, both applied in Jan, both recieved stamp 4...

I am obviously pleased and relieved for both couples but in my experience of the Irish system and culture so far, (yes I know I shouldnt say this but I am) it may help to be American. Even bigapple isnt really sure about what is different about her case to everyone elses.

I was told by the immigration officials at Dublin airport (after they kept my husband in an immigration office for 3 hours) that if "he had been on a plane from the US he would never have been stopped.. we dont like to delay passengers from the US." If he had been on a plane that came in just before a US flight, it would also have been a different story. But surprise surprise all flight from africa/middle east land a good deal earlier or later.

I would love to be a fly on the wall in the EU treaty rights section and see how they really make decisions.

[archigabe]

An additional problem/opportunity in my case is that my wife and I are going to Sweden in a couple of days. I'm Swedish and my wife obtained a residency permit to Sweden after applying for EU1 to Ireland.

Hi Erik, atleast the stamp4 will be arriving soon...you wrote '

'My wife who is the non-EU citizen got a 6 month multiple entry visa upon visting Irish immigration at Burgh Quay in Dec 06. She is like everyone else waiting for a response on EU1''.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... ght=#88422

The re-entry visa application form asks for a GNIB regisration number...
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/ReEntryV ... lJan07.pdf
can you please let us know on how your wife was able to apply for a re-entry visa without a GNIB registration number?
thanks!

[Platinum]

it may help to be American

This would not surprise me.

My personal theory on all this is that someone at the DoJ got hold of Directive 2004/38/EC and the first thing that came to mind was "Oooh, we'll get a bunch of Nigerians marrying Poles to stay in Ireland" or, more charitably "Oooh, there will be an uproar because people will think that we'll get a bunch of Nigerians marrying Poles to stay in Ireland."

I hasten to add that I don't personally know any Irish that think this way. They've all been as outraged as I have about my treatment at the hands of the DoJ. I have, however, read some other forums about this issue and some newspaper articles that have thinly disguised vitriol and hatred on the subject of immigrants.

Anyway, the fact that, as Americans, BigApple and I were maybe thought of by someone, somewhere, as the "good" kind of immigrants and got our Stamp 4s, may not be a completely fantastical scenario.

I would also like to add here, as well, that BA submitted evidence that she could get a highly-skilled job in Ireland, and that I had previously been here on a work permit, and so have some proof that I could get a highly-skilled job as well. This couldn't have hurt.

[BigAppleWoodenShoe]

Speaking of education, my letter from the college did mention that I had a Master of Science in epidemiology...a field somewhat rare in Ireland. That may have been a factor.

However, do I think that being American helped me get a Stamp 4...I am pretty sure it did. But that doesn't mean other people should give up...And if race or country of origin is an issue, than it should be confronted. Maybe because I am American and we like to talk about facial issues over there...but I don't think facial discrimination gets the attention it deserves in Ireland...or even continental Europe for that matter.

[megmog]

I agree with a lot of the points mentioned.

Platinum - I am with you on the "good immigrants" thing.

I find there is a serious under current of beloved/prejudice in Ireland that nobody talks about - it is just sort of accepted.

My husband is a white south african with an afrikaans accent but speaks fluent English (I would go as far as saying his English is better than some of the Irish citizens I have come across!) and when he speaks to people they literally cannot believe their ears - we live in a small village and are without doubt known as the "foreigners".

I dont know if anyone listens to RTE 1 but a woman called in yesterday (bearing in mind this is a national radio station) and referred to the Muslin religion as "all that crap" !! and not a bat of an eyelid apart from mine and my colleagues (who happen to be english and Irish American)

Its not that I have anything against the Irish (most of my family are Irish) but I just never expected such narrow minded opinions in such a developed country and as BAWS mentioned - these need to be confronted.

I also find it very convenient that you have to submit photographs with your visa applications these days.. another easy route to facial profiling that falls under "for our records"

*sigh*

I do accept that you both have good career prospects though and I will definitely make sure to mention this in my letter to the DoJ when they inevitably run over the 6 month deadline.

[Erik84]

Today my wife finally got her EU fam 4 residency card and stamp in the passport. At first they refused to give it because she had two valid passports, one expiring in 2010 and another one expiring in Sep 07. They told us to go to her embassy and have the old one cancelled. When we said that Ivory Coast has no embassy in Ireland and that the embassy in London probably would not help us, the lady at the counter hinted (with gestures without saying it outright) that we should cut off the corners of the old passport making it cancelled ourselves.

We did so, queued again, and got the residence permit until the expiry of my wife's passport in 2010 - ie not five years as the letter from the DoJ said.

Feels very good actually, but I am still thinking of pointing out the problems in the whole application process some way. Maybe suing the DoJ...

Here are the issues I think shoudl have been handled better in the application process:


-My wife was told to register with GNIB upon arrival in December 06. At GNIB she was told that she wasnt allowed to register, but that she should apply with EU1 instead. Today she was asked at GNIB why she hadnt registered.

-The 6 month EU1 limit was not respected in our case

-We were told by INIS at Burgh quay that having a Swedish residence permit would not having any impact at all on the EU1 application. This was incorrect.

-At first she was denied the EU1 application which I believe is a breach of Directive 2004/38/EC.

-In the denial letter the reason stated was that she hadnt resided in another EU country prior to arrival. It is correct that my wife hadnt resided in another EU country but they still overturned the decision, so the statement in the denial letter was incorrect.

-My employer sent a letter to the EU treaty Risghts section to support my wife's case. I believe this played a part in the overturn of the decision. It shouldnt have if people are to be treated equally.

To conclude I would say that it is more of a system failure than malice or incompetence among immigration officials - even though the latter two certainly exist. Coming from Sweden, the whole thing is very surprising - one would never have guessed that a western democratic country would have such an inconsistent and ineffective system that actually to some extent does not comply with basic principles of rule of law. Sweden does have it faults but it practically never happens that you get contradictory information from the same public institution.

[Erik84]

can you please let us know on how your wife was able to apply for a re-entry visa without a GNIB registration number?
thanks!

I think we were very lucky, and it was back in December 06, when things were a bit leaner. We simply said that we wanted to go and celebrate christmas in Sweden with my family (which was perfectly true). The people at the counter at INIS said that they couldnt believe that I wouldnt be allowed to visit my own country with my wife. Then I said that the problem wasnt really entering Sweden but coming back to Ireland. The Swedish embassy wouldnt issue a visa since they saw that my wife only had a single entry (used) visa to Ireland and they wanted to avoid a situation where a person is in limbo between two countries. Then we were told to come back after closing time and my wife was given a 6 months multiple entry visa to Ireland.

[archigabe]

Thanks for sharing that with us Erik!