Moving to Germany with non EU family member

[easy_rider]

Hello!

I have already checked the forums and also official EU website about moving to another member state but still
I can't figure out how the things work. I will be glad if you could help me to clear my doubts about settling in a EU state.

My wife is EU citizen but I am not. We have decided to move to Germany this autumn. We have already applied some jobs online but we hope will get in few monthes later move there. We have some savings for around half a year. Anyway we want to prepare ourself against any future difficulties before moving. My main doubts are health insurance system in Germany, my situation as a EU family member and also my wife's registration process.

1-Which one is easy and useful registration option in our case: as a job seeker or self sufficient ?
2-Will German foreign office ask any health insurance, bank account or etc.. if my wife register herself as a jobseeker ?
3-When can I start the work? After I get the residence card or immediatly after my wife register herself ?
4-Will we able to still stay in Germany if I get the job but my wife cant ? I mean, I take advantage from her EU citizien rights but if she can not find a job how would things work ?

Many thanks for your interest...

[Wanderer]

How's your German?

[easy_rider]

Hello Wanderer,

Our German level is b1. If you asked it to warn me about difficulties of getting job, sadly I have already known that German skill is must to survive in job market.

I would like to hear If you had experience with settling in Germany.

[dalebutt]

In most states your wife will not have a problem registering, they usually do not require her to show anything other than she must have anmeldung, it makes no difference if she is a jobseeker or self sufficient person.

You can normally start work as soon as you arrive in Germany, but it will be difficult to convince your potential employer of your right to work, some employers make ask to see copy of your marriage certificate and a copy of your passport and that of your wife's , you must count yourself extremely lucky to find one who would be that much lenient.

If you manage to get a job before she do, you will have a comprehensive insurance that will effectively be sufficient for your family and your wife can register as self sufficient, it is no problem.

Which state are you planning to settle? you will have much luck with smaller Stadt, in places like Hamburg, Munich, Freiburg et al you are very much likely to have it tough with the Auslanderbehorde, but in the end if you have the documents they want it is pretty much straight forward.

In Germany, before you can rent an apartment, you need a job, before you can get a job you will need an Anmeldung, which is a confirmation of your residence,bit of a Catch-22, try and stay away from big cities, especially Munich, your savings will run out pretty much quickly, you will most likely be staying in B&Q for quite sometime, if you already have relatives that lives in Germany, they will make settling down much easy.

Once you settle down, you will very much enjoy the country, They have some pretty looking Bahnofs and Banhs. Good luck

[ecogle]

Hi,
My wife is Geman, I am Non eea member, we moved from Munich to UK 6 years back. Now my residence permit is going to expired in few months, already I got refusal for PR for few times due to non exercising treaty rights for few years. We also plan to move back, the problem is Housing especially in Munich, finding a apartment is nightmare in Germany and also it is expansive. We are not sure about the benefits we are entitled to since my wife and kids are German nationals. Recently I have enquired the housing office in Munich, they told me I need to wait 5 years to qualify for Social housing scheme. Be prepared yourself financially to face difficult situations. Job market is good, at least you will find some part time jobs quickly but problem is cost of living, again especially housing. If you go to small cities, you will find housing cheaper but finding a job is difficult. To get social benefits are not so easy in Germany, You have to do loads of paper works.
cheers

Ecogle

[easy_rider]

Thank you dalebutt and ecogle for your responses and advices.

We want to move to Berlin. I know Berlin has high jobless rank in Germany and also new attraction center for the expats from all around world. There are pros ans cons of big cities. (I know negative sides more than positives) But we like multi kulti population of Berlin.

Dalebutt, do you think it would be difficult to get Auslanderbehorde if my wife register herself as a jobseeker? I guess that time they will ask us to prove health insurance and bank account papers. We have enough savings to prove I guess. But we dont want to get into private health insurance from the beginnig. Because I heard that it is difficult to swap private to public one. I dont know if they accept our application without insurance. I hope she will able to find a job (at least part time) to make our application fast and positive. Do you think part time job would convience them ? Actually its written that jobseekers not required to prove any paper but EU id card and marriage certificate for the family member on offical website of EU. But I dont know how it works in practic.

Ecogle, we have visited Germany several times but havent lived there. But anyway we heard many things about heavy bureaucracy. If there is no problem for you may I ask why did you get refusal for PR ?

[dalebutt]

Why are you so keen for her to register as job seeker? in anycase you will not be asked to show anything more than your Anmeldung and ID to register at the Arbeitsamt, registering as a jobseeker does not mean you will be granted residence card, your focus instead you be on securing your wife's employment. There is nothing restricting you from changing insurer.

Your application for residence card will not succeed without insurance, and you can only apply for residence card if your wife is either self employed, self sufficient, or employed, if your wife is employed, her employer will contribute half towards the cost of her insurance. There is nothing wrong with part time employment, it will be sufficient for your application, I am not just sure if an employer will pay towards the cost of her insurance if she is a part timer

[Wanderer]

Hello Wanderer,

Our German level is b1. If you asked it to warn me about difficulties of getting job, sadly I have already known that German skill is must to survive in job market.

I would like to hear If you had experience with settling in Germany.

Actually it was for the auslanderborde and the finanzamt, my partner spent hours in there, she did move to Germany for a year but she needed a work permit so we had all that hassle too. Her German was top level then but her accent was poor which caused problems. Soon became fluent tho.

It was hard for her but she's glad she did it, her German is perfect now. I was with her for a while and wish we still where - better life than UK....

[easy_rider]

Dalebutt, I am keen to register her as a jobseeker because I thought that way they wouldn't ask for health insurance. (but I see in any case they will ask for health insurance)
Let me tell you also why I am tense about health insurance: If we apply the residence card before we get a job we will need private health insurance. I heard that if we get in the private health insurance system we will not able to change it to public one for 11 months. So that will be extra cost for us until change it to the public one. If my wife or me can get a job then there will be no problem to prove of health insurance.

Also I learned that EU citizen can not be eligible to apply voluntarily have public insurance if he was not public insured at least 2 years in last 5 years by other EU state! We live outside of EU. So she is not eligible to apply voluntarily for public ones. etc.. etc.. etc... So it is quite like catch=22 situation as you mentioned before.

Wanderer, learning language is must. Not only for getting a job but also joining and being a part of the society.

[ecogle]

Thank you dalebutt and ecogle for your responses and advices.

We want to move to Berlin. I know Berlin has high jobless rank in Germany and also new attraction center for the expats from all around world. There are pros ans cons of big cities. (I know negative sides more than positives) But we like multi kulti population of Berlin.

Dalebutt, do you think it would be difficult to get Auslanderbehorde if my wife register herself as a jobseeker? I guess that time they will ask us to prove health insurance and bank account papers. We have enough savings to prove I guess. But we dont want to get into private health insurance from the beginnig. Because I heard that it is difficult to swap private to public one. I dont know if they accept our application without insurance. I hope she will able to find a job (at least part time) to make our application fast and positive. Do you think part time job would convience them ? Actually its written that jobseekers not required to prove any paper but EU id card and marriage certificate for the family member on offical website of EU. But I dont know how it works in practic.

Ecogle, we have visited Germany several times but havent lived there. But anyway we heard many things about heavy bureaucracy. If there is no problem for you may I ask why did you get refusal for PR ?

My PR for UK were refused due to not exercising treaty right for 5 years. But Case workers have not looked the paperwork properly. I also found new evidences like German Helath insurance card were issued for 3 years after moving to UK because my wife was in Maternity holiday, as per German regulations she was eligible for 3 years post maternity pay along with social medical system(AOK, DAK) for your reference I put the time line as below.
From To Treaty rights Months
31/07/2008 31/10/2008 Settling period 3
01/11/2008 30/06/2009 Job seeker 8
01/07/2009 23/06/2010 Student 12
09/09/2010 30/06/2011 Student 10
01/07/2011 30/11/2012 Employed 17
01/12/2013 31/12/2013 Job seeker 1
01/01/2013 Till date Self Employed 23
01/12/2013 30/11/2014 Student
Total 74
Regards
Ecogle

[Obie]

Ecogle, are you seeking to advise OP or hijack his thread.

I seem to be getting confused with your true intention. If it is assistance, then that is fine, but if it appears to me that you are seeking to hijack his thread, i will delete your post.

[ecogle]

Hi Obie,

He just want to know why my PR is not approved. I just want to tell him what happened. If you want you can delete the post.

Regards
Ecogle

[Obie]

i apologise Ecogle.

I take back what i said.

[easy_rider]

So ecogle, EU citizens can get benefits from the state if they register as selfsufficent, freelancer or jobseeker ? For example if I get a job and my wife register herself as a selfsufficient person, she can take advantage my health insurance but can she also recieve benefits like elterngeld for the future maternity?

[easy_rider]

Hello Obie, thanks for your interest but as ecogle mentioned I was curious about his refusal.

By the way how could I get advice from experienced member like EUsmileWEallsmile, Directive/2004/38/EC ?

[ecogle]

Hi Rider,

I will recommend you to find at least a part time job (Teil zeit or mini job), so that your employer will pay for your health insurance. As you said you can able to cover few months on your own, that will be great, I am sure how the foreign office will calculate the income for couples to grant visa on EU regulations. Regarding the Elterngeld you need to wait until your baby born. Then you will get Kindergeld around 190 euro per month and regardless of your wife job status she will get at least 500 euro for next 3 years. If she started works before that she will get 80 percent of her salary as eltern geld for 2 years( I really forgot the system) on third year again she will get 500 euros per month. If your salary is lower than some level you are eligible for kinderschslag -(similar to tax credits), whonuggeld etc. I hope you will settle down in Germany soon.

Regards

Ecogle

[Obie]

I am moving this topic to the Europe Immigration forum, as the query is in regards to Moving to Germany and not UK.

You are likely to get more advise from there.

[JulianaV]

You can normally start work as soon as you arrive in Germany, but it will be difficult to convince your potential employer of your right to work, some employers make ask to see copy of your marriage certificate and a copy of your passport and that of your wife's , you must count yourself extremely lucky to find one who would be that much lenient.

Wait ! let me doublecheck this...in Germany if my non EEA-Spouse presents his passport + mine EU passport + our marriage certificate (maybe officially translated to Germany) he can be hired ?'

We are moving from UK to Germany and at least in UK , the theory is the same, but on the practice...well, my husband need to present a Residence Card or a Certificate of Application because he is not the EEA. If the government decide to investigate the employer, well, nothing will happens with my husband because he have rights, however the employer will need to pay 10k pounds fee as penalty to fail to provide a valid proof of work of a non-eea member. IN other words: You have the right to work , but the others don't have the right to hire you cute, no ? I will really appreciate if someone clarify this point for me. ty !

oh, and one thing more...

In Germany, before you can rent an apartment, you need a job, before you can get a job you will need an Anmeldung, which is a confirmation of your residence

But there is a overlap on this sentence, no ? j confirmation of residence ---> Job ---> rent a apartment. How can you confirm your residence if you need a job first ?

[easy_rider]

Wait ! let me doublecheck this...in Germany if my non EEA-Spouse presents his passport + mine EU passport + our marriage certificate (maybe officially translated to Germany) he can be hired ?'

JulianaV, I am also curious about if that works in practice. But as dalebutt mentioned that it must be difficult to find a employer who would accept and care EU family member only with marriage certificate. I don't know may be there are some users who already experienced that and would like to share with us.

But there is a overlap on this sentence, no ? j confirmation of residence ---> Job ---> rent a apartment. How can you confirm your residence if you need a job first ?

I haven't faced that situation yet but I understood what I read on forum, German landlords are so carefull about their properties. They mostly prefer workers and natives as tenants.

Plus, I would like to learn about getting acces in public health insurance system voluntarily. What are the requirements of it?

[dalebutt]

I do not think there is an overlap in the sentence, that is the practical reality of the system in Germany, you will need an Anmeldung, which is a confirmation of where you live, you first need a house agreement before you can proceed to the Bugeramt to register your address, before you get an house agreement from a Landlord or letting agent you will need an employment contract, however before you get an employment contract, your potential employer would need to see your Anmeldung.

[dalebutt]

The public insurance you talked about is for people who earn less than certain amount annually, you may wish to call tkk to get better understanding of the German insurance system, they used to have an English based customer service.

[JulianaV]

JulianaV, I am also curious about if that works in practice. But as dalebutt mentioned that it must be difficult to find a employer who would accept and care EU family member only with marriage certificate. I don't know may be there are some users who already experienced that and would like to share with us.

Yeah ! Will be awesome ! I hope someone can share with us Great help !

[ALKB]

Hello!

I have already checked the forums and also official EU website about moving to another member state but still
I can't figure out how the things work. I will be glad if you could help me to clear my doubts about settling in a EU state.

My wife is EU citizen but I am not. We have decided to move to Germany this autumn. We have already applied some jobs online but we hope will get in few monthes later move there. We have some savings for around half a year. Anyway we want to prepare ourself against any future difficulties before moving. My main doubts are health insurance system in Germany, my situation as a EU family member and also my wife's registration process.

1-Which one is easy and useful registration option in our case: as a job seeker or self sufficient ?
2-Will German foreign office ask any health insurance, bank account or etc.. if my wife register herself as a jobseeker ?
3-When can I start the work? After I get the residence card or immediatly after my wife register herself ?
4-Will we able to still stay in Germany if I get the job but my wife cant ? I mean, I take advantage from her EU citizien rights but if she can not find a job how would things work ?

Many thanks for your interest...

1. Don't do either. Just register your residence with the local municipality, make an appointment with the Ausländerbehörde that falls within 90 days of arriving (so don't dawdle, get this sorted ASAP) and they can't ask you for finances, job or health insurance. If your appointment is after 90 days when they can and will ask to see those. Applications are usually decided on the spot and your residence card should arrive after three weeks.

2. Not in the first 90 days.

3. Theoretically right away, practically an employer will want to see proof of your work rights.

4. She can be self-sufficient through your income but it would be good if she could manage at least a part time job.

I recommend to have travel insurance for at least the first 90 days. As soon as you start work you can get insured with a public health insurance (try not to get caught up with a private insurer, as indeed it can be very, very tricky to get accepted into public health insurance once you have been insured privately).

I don't agree with the small town/big city comments. For a foreigner, the big cities will always be better, easier to get by with English, more job opportunities, especially if you are part of a visible minority.

[easy_rider]

1. Don't do either. Just register your residence with the local municipality, make an appointment with the Ausländerbehörde that falls within 90 days of arriving (so don't dawdle, get this sorted ASAP) and they can't ask you for finances, job or health insurance. If your appointment is after 90 days when they can and will ask to see those. Applications are usually decided on the spot and your residence card should arrive after three weeks.

2. Not in the first 90 days.

3. Theoretically right away, practically an employer will want to see proof of your work rights.

4. She can be self-sufficient through your income but it would be good if she could manage at least a part time job.

I recommend to have travel insurance for at least the first 90 days. As soon as you start work you can get insured with a public health insurance (try not to get caught up with a private insurer, as indeed it can be very, very tricky to get accepted into public health insurance once you have been insured privately).

I don't agree with the small town/big city comments. For a foreigner, the big cities will always be better, easier to get by with English, more job opportunities, especially if you are part of a visible minority.

Thanks a lot ALKB! You made it so clear for me.

Please don't get me wrong but I would like to ask you (to be sure) if things really work like that in practice? Have you experienced it before (or maybe any friends of you) ? I am asking this because I had same idea with you about not requiet to prove any finances or health insurance if we apply in first 90 days. But some people from here or other forums say that applying a residence card without insurance will be useless. And as you mentioned before we do not want to get into the private insurance at first side.

Do you think Anmeldung would be enough to convince the employers until I get the residence card ?

Plus, can she get social benefits (for example; elterngeld if we have baby in the future) if she lives as a self-sufficient through my income?

We prefer moving to Berlin exactly because of the multi kulti population of the city. Although Berlin has the high jobless rank in Germany, still there are many opportunity for the expats.

So many thanks again for your answers and interest.

[JulianaV]

Wait ! let me doublecheck this...in Germany if my non EEA-Spouse presents his passport + mine EU passport + our marriage certificate (maybe officially translated to Germany) he can be hired ?'

JulianaV, I am also curious about if that works in practice. But as dalebutt mentioned that it must be difficult to find a employer who would accept and care EU family member only with marriage certificate. I don't know may be there are some users who already experienced that and would like to share with us.

But there is a overlap on this sentence, no ? j confirmation of residence ---> Job ---> rent a apartment. How can you confirm your residence if you need a job first ?

I haven't faced that situation yet but I understood what I read on forum, German landlords are so carefull about their properties. They mostly prefer workers and natives as tenants.

Plus, I would like to learn about getting acces in public health insurance system voluntarily. What are the requirements of it?

Have you already researched about Anmeldebescheinigung ? it's sounds the correct document for a scenario like ours. If you have something to share about it..plz let me know..if others know something about Anmeldebescheinigung, let me know as well.