Complicated and long, please help!

[missy25]

Hello there, and thank you for reading my post.

I am a UK citizen and my partner is from a non-EU country. Although he came in 2001...his visa situation has not been resolved and I was wondering if any one had some advice, ideas, or routes to take...

In 2001, he entered on a Tourist Visa, and was 16 years old.
He was accepted at an English Language School, and a college to study for A-Levels. He therefore applied for indefinate leave to remain as a dependent on his brother. His brother had gained UK citizenship in the 1990s, has a family in UK and a business in the UK.
It took nearly 2 years for the case to come to hearing, but for some reason it was rejected. And so it was rejected on appeal also. The solicitor then decided to apply for Discretionary leave to remain, based on him being a dependent on his brother...

He is still waiting for the outcome. He is now in his 20s, at university.
Is it common to wait so long for an outcome? Further, will they argue now that he is a man in his 20s, so cant be called a 'dependent'?? However, this would not be his fault due to the case taking so long to be heard. To note though, he is still dependent on his brother in UK for living and has no money from anywhere else.

This is also where I am anxious - we recently spoke to a lawyer who told us that his application has only a small chance of success and as she read over his documents, she saw many mistakes his own laywer had made. So, if all this leads to a negative outcome, and the case lawyer was neglible, can this work in his favour and help him get a visa?

Im sorry if my qestions sound a little naive, as I have so many thoughts I feel like i need to cover everything. Please forgive me.

It is likely that once he has graduated, even with a degree he cant apply for a job or another course until this is resolved due to his case still pending.

I hope that this application does succeed..however, if it does not, i guess his next option would be to apply for a student visa or work permit?

I feel like he has many things in his favour: he entered legally, he has a UK education, he is dependent on his brother who is a UK citizen. Further, he even had indefiniate visa as a child as his family used to stay here over summer.

What do you believe the outcome may be? Thank you.

[missy25]

Oh, apologising that I'm adding more,.. i just wanted to add that we are very much in love, and want to get married in the future as we talk about it all the time. But we are unable to live together until we get married, and cant get married until his visa is sorted out due to the views of our families...quite traditional etc. We fully respect them all, so are so hungry for him to be able to get a visa on his own merits. I wish love and hope and faith was a good enough criteria for a visa, esp given many individuals here are experiencing the same emotions.....

Thanks once again for your time.

[Docterror]

I wish love and hope and faith was a good enough criteria for a visa, esp given many individuals here are experiencing the same emotions.....

Ever thought about making the marriage part sooner rather than later? But, legally speaking, are you eligible? I mean, how old are you and trust me when I tell you this... emotions have nothing to do with visa. Nothing at all! Only documents works.

[missy25]

No offence taken. Im in my mid twenties, and hope to graduate in next few years with a PhD. I have tought about this rationally, emotionally and logically. Even if we were not partners, it would be a waste for him not to ber here and fulfil his dreams. He also wants a chance at further education and make a good life for himself and his future family.

You are right, I havent let emotions run wild, otherwise we would have married ASAP...but we know the effects that would have on our relationship with our own families etc, so we are trying so hard to do what is best.

All comments are much appreciated!

[missy25]

If only Humanists wrote the immigrations laws...

So until that day..any advice??

[SYH]

If only Humanists wrote the immigrations laws...

So until that day..any advice??

Well I hope you are not crying human rights issues.
In any case, the lawyers negligience does not help your case

[jimquk]

I'm no expert on this but for what it's worth I would think that the chances of getting a dependent visa were pretty small. Any errors made by his lawyer would not be likely to help you - the lawyer is only his agent, and he is responsible for finding a good lawyer.

A more likely option might be for him to return to his home country and apply to rejoin you on a fiance visa, or for you both to get married over there, and him to come back on a spouse visa. However, you would need to have evidence of your own accommodation and income to support both of you.

I suppose you could have a religious ceremony now, which would allow you to live together "guilt-free", and might strengthen his application to return as fiance/spouse ..... but such a ceremony would in no way change his immigration status or guarantee success; and I guess it might nullify his dependent visa application (can you be dependent on your family and at the same time married to/living with someone else?).

[missy25]

Would it be possible for him to leave after his degree, and then come back on a student visa if he got accepted on a course? Or a work permit if he got a job offer?

That's true about the solicitor, although in his defence, when he first came here, he had to rely on others to help him being only a minor, and only as he got older could he start to read up on things for himself.

The solicitor we recently spoke to asked him if his case laywer had made him aware that the current appliction had limited chance...and apparently she was supposed to give him a statement about this, but there was no such verbal or written info.

Anyway, that's the past, and have to focus on now. I guess the reason for taking a long time is due to many many cases in the HO.

[missy25]

Just to clarify, we personally aren't religious, so we cant have such a ceremony.

PS Until i began reading this forum, i had no idea about all these issues. Good luck to everyone here with their cases.

[sakura]

Just to clarify, we personally aren't religious, so we cant have such a ceremony.

PS Until i began reading this forum, i had no idea about all these issues. Good luck to everyone here with their cases.

I'm curious to know, what fee status is he under at university? I assume it must be international fees - if so, how does he pay for the fees?

As for applying for ILR - I don't see how he, or anyone else, thought he qualified. ILR...even most visas...are not given just because you have a sibling. Unless he had no parents to be dependent, then he could have applied based on exceptional circumstances...and I do mean exceptional! Like having neither parents or adopted parents. That is why it was rejected. Plus...do you mean he came on a tourist visa and has since overstayed (i.e no visa at all), or he was on a student visa? It doesn't sound to me that he applied for a dependent's visa (because he wasn't eligible), so he most certainly wouldn't qualify for ILR!

If he applied for DLR - it really hinges on whether or not he has parents, IMO. I don't see how he can apply based on his brother - plus he's too old anyway. When did he lodge this application?

What kinds of mistakes were made?

About the 'humanist' immigration rules - what do you mean? There has not ever really been an option for siblings to apply for residency. It is only exceptional circumstances - there is nothinig wrong with that - most EU countries have this same policy. There isn't even anything really 'religious' about the rules - it just states marriage or living together for a specified time, to qualify based on one's partner. (Not sure you meant all this!)

BTW - where is he (and his family) from?

[missy25]

He has to pay international fees, which his brother paid for.

His father passed away, and his mother is frail, so there is absolutely no money back in his home country to support him.

This is what i mean, who knows why they decided to start an ILR application initially. As i said, he was a minor and relied on the advice of others. He has never been in this country illegally, having entered above board, he is merely waiting for the outcome of his case.

My point also, how can the solicitor claim for him being a 'dependent' when he's in his 20s...although, he is solely dependent on the money his brother can give him (which is all within the UK as the brother has a business here) so can be fully documented.

So, considering only his brother here can support him, is this 'exceptional circumstances'? Would this be a plus point for his case?

I dont think he can even apply for the Graduate Visa scheme (sorry, not sure of the official name) once he has graduated cos of all circumstances.

Home country is Iran.

[avjones]

I can't say for sure without seeing all the papers, of course, but it sounds most unlikely that he would qualify to stay with his brother. He has a parent outside the UK, and he is over 18, and presumably fit and healthy.

[missy25]

Yep, he is fit and healthy. But his mother back in Iran is old and frail so could not support him. Also, as he has had a UK education, his home country is unlikely to recognise this so it is unlikely that he can support himself there. Catch 22, he cant support himself here cos he cant get a job without some sort of visa, so, he remains a dependent until he can get a job...

Considering all that has been said. What are his options now?

Should he apply and assuming he gets a letter of acceptence, to a Masters course, then withdraw the application and apply for a Student Visa. Two points though, this would have to be next year as he can chance a disruption as he has one year of his uni course to go. Also, would this mean going back to Iran to get the student visa. And a big problem is, will they let him out again?

Or, is it best to get, next year, a job acceptence, and then apply for a work permit? Does he need to leave the country for this? We have a friend from Taiwan (living here as a student) who, nearing the end of her student visa had a job offer, and did not need to go back to obtain a work permit. Again, if he goes back to Iran, will he get the work permit?

All in all, if he does have to leave here for student/work permit, how can he when the HO have all his documents like his passport?Also, all the time he has spent here, he could be applying for natuaralisation by now! so this is so frustrating, and assuming he gets a student/work permit, he will have to start counting the years again.

[missy25]

Does having an MP support the case help? (just reaidng thru other threads and came acorss the idea). He previously spoke to his local MP (who has since changed) and was told he couldnt help the case.

Thanks again for all the replies. It really means a lot.

[avjones]

"Yep, he is fit and healthy. But his mother back in Iran is old and frail so could not support him. Also, as he has had a UK education, his home country is unlikely to recognise this so it is unlikely that he can support himself there. Catch 22, he cant support himself here cos he cant get a job without some sort of visa, so, he remains a dependent until he can get a job... "

That wouldn't be seen as much of a barrier. He's young, fit and healthy, he could work in some capacity.

If he went back and applied for a student visa, he might well be refused on the intention to return home.

[Wanderer]

"Yep, he is fit and healthy. But his mother back in Iran is old and frail so could not support him. Also, as he has had a UK education, his home country is unlikely to recognise this so it is unlikely that he can support himself there. Catch 22, he cant support himself here cos he cant get a job without some sort of visa, so, he remains a dependent until he can get a job... "

That wouldn't be seen as much of a barrier. He's young, fit and healthy, he could work in some capacity.

If he went back and applied for a student visa, he might well be refused on the intention to return home.

And a UK education would be a major plus in most countries even though unis here are money making enterprises and the actual standard of education low. Little rant there from me!

[OL7MAX]

Also, as he has had a UK education, his home country is unlikely to recognise this so it is unlikely that he can support himself there.

Playing devil's advocate ...he choose to get a UK education. It seems a strange thing to do if it isn't recognised back home.

The likely story is that he dragged out his education in the hope of getting a visa on the strength of his brother's residence. No harm in that but let's not pretend it's all somebody else's fault. He took a chance and things didn't pan out for him as he didn't really have any grounds for residence anyway.

He was accepted at an English Language School, and a college to study for A-Levels. He therefore applied for indefinate leave to remain

There is no therefore about it. That someone has been accepted into a language school is not some admission by the UK government that they are eligible for ILR.

He came in as a visitor, applied to stay as a student, tried to change that to ILR based on the flimsy plea that his brother is resident, failed, appealed, failed again and is now arguing that he deserves exceptional leave because he didn't use the right reasons in his original application (he forgot to say he was dependent on his brother).

Just to clarify, we personally aren't religious, so we cant have such a ceremony.

Hmm, you don't have to be religious to have a ceremony. If you opt to not have one that is a choice you're exercising. I thought it was a very sensible suggestion as the only other route of having some chance of success appears to be both of you eloping to Iran, living there for a bit and applying for him from there. Strangely, of the examples we see here, love tends to stop at such drastic steps

[Wanderer]

Another thing is he (should) have near native at least fluent practical English, worth a lot in most countries, so if he has to return to Iran for a bit, he should do very well.

My gf is Russian, when she goes home she's offered very good rates for teaching English, cos she has lived in UK and that adds value. Not as much as me tho - I'm native, I get offered more, which even I find tremendously unfair. She spends 15 years studying English, I don't know a subjunctive mood from a noun inflection and I am more prestigious to employ. That;s life tho, for all of us. We deal with it.