Hi John, Sakura, Victoria please help

[avjones]

"avjones, what would you do if you are in his situation?? Will you tell immigration officer while leaving UK that you came to country in someone else's passport and worked in UK illegally?? Be real.
Its nothing harm in telling a lie in a no win situation."

I am real. And one of the aspects of reality which I have in mind is the criminal offence of aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring a person to attempt to obtain leave to enter or remain in the UK by means of deception.

But as a more general point, I think advising people to lie in this way is both legally and morally wrong.

[John]

Amanda, totally agree.

A further point ... there is a difference between telling a lie and being expedient with the truth. That is, if someone is not asked a question about a particular matter, no need to volunteer the information.

Also, it is not always the case that there are embarkation checks at all ports/airports. In other words, no guarantee at all that a person will get asked anything at all.

[eliasuk4u]

I am real. And one of the aspects of reality which I have in mind is the criminal offence of aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring a person to attempt to obtain leave to enter or remain in the UK by means of deception.

I never said to lie to entry clearance officer to obtain leave to enter or remain in UK. I said its for leaving the UK port, If you read my post properly once again

[jimquk]

Avjones said

I think advising people to lie in this way is both legally and morally wrong

It may be inadvisable, but in my opinion the immigration system is fundamentally immoral, and I cannot get exercised by the supposed immorality of lying when dealing with it.

In general, lying will only get you into more trouble, but if you can get away with it........ The mere fact of gaining entry to the UK illegally or by lying does not make someone a bad person.

[avjones]

"I never said to lie to entry clearance officer to obtain leave to enter or remain in UK. I said its for leaving the UK port, If you read my post properly once again"

It could well be part of the same thing - if you lie to avoid being found out about previous illegality, and then rely on that lie to attempt to get entry clearance, that could well be a material deception for the purposes of getting leave to enter.

I do quite a bit of immigration-related crime. People can be and are prosecuted for this offence, and IME they ALWAYS go to prison.

[marita25]

I am now befuddled.

I have read all the posts over again and I do not know what will be the best course of action to follow while leaving UK.

If at all my fiance is asked why he has a travel document or more importantly what his status was in this country;Should he say he was an illegal immigrant and get the dreaded form - IS15A? and fingerprints which if I am correct AVJones has advised will affect the application for a spouse visa.

If he does say he was on a visitors visa but his passport was lost and embassy provided a Travel Document, then AVJones has advised they will verify this information on their Database and found out to be false liable for prosecution.

I am certainly in a dilemma??? / Stressed.

[avjones]

He should, in my opinion, tell the truth. Even if he is served with illegal entrant papers, that doesn't render it impossible to ge a spouse visa. You just have to make sure your application is a good one.

[marita25]

I was compiling all the documents that we will need and have noticed that on the full birth certificate my husbands occupation is noted down ITConsultant as he works as an IT Contractor(though he is an Illegal Immigrant). I also have the short birth certificate. Should I only provide the short birth certificate as it would still show my childs surname as my husbands/fiance without the occupation details or they do require the long birth certificate.

Do not know what to do please help.

[avjones]

Being labelled as an illegal doesn't prevent someone getting a spouse visa, whether they've been working or not. IMO it's far better to provide the full documentation, rather than be refused because you've only supplied the short certificate.

It may be the case that the ECO might look for reasons to refuse because of the illegal status previously, but that's not a reason to refuse of itself. Just make sure you've got as much evidence as you can of the accommodation, income, and genuineness of the marriage.

[eliasuk4u]

Do not know what to do please help.

If I was you, I will submit the full birth certificate.

[VictoriaS]

I would also stress that lying to the ECO is not a good idea.

I have recently spoken to someone who had a visa to enter the UK as an HSMP holder refused. The reason was that he claimed to have never visited the UK, but the ECO matched his fingerprints with someone who came to the UK in 1996 to claim asylum, and the application was refused due to his having lied on the application form.


Victoria

[marita25]

I am now in my fiance's country and will be getting married on Saturday afterwards we will submit his application on Monday.

1.Could you please clarify Section 3.7:
Does children include only those from our previous relationship if any or it also refers to those from our relationship in this case our daughter.

Please clarify.

2. Can my husband submit without a backup letter from a solicitor in UK or it would be advisable to have a solicitor's letter as he is applying when he was an illegal immigrant so a bit complicated. We have however gathered all the required documentation regarding Accomodation, Finances, and a solid evidence of our relationship e.g bills in our names, official documents at same address , letters from our vicar, landlord,letter from my mother highlighting our relationship, copies of passport visas showing my relatives visiting his African country for the wedding on Saturday and our childs birth certificate. Do you still advise we have a letter from a solicitor in UK? If so I will gladly get upon my return to the UK and will defer submitting for a week or so.

Thanking you in anticipation.

[marita25]

I am waiting patiently for a reply to my above question. Could someone kindly offer some advice on these 2 questions.

Regards

[VictoriaS]

You application is, I believe, to complex for me to assist on this forum.

If you would like my professional assistance, please PM or e-mail me.

Victoria

[marita25]

i am now back in the Uk and my husband will submit his application beginning of Oct as he is still waiting for his passport. I am DHLing/sending my copies of my passport to him as I have checked through the posts and noticed any copies will have to be certified by a UK solicitor??? Is this so.

if this is the case then not only copies of my passport will need to be certified by a UK solicitor but the marriage certificate as well though we had our wedding in his country.

Should my husband if asked in Interview what jobs he did admit he worked for a government organisation (Tax Office) as an IT Consultant or will it be expedient to say he only did Cash in hand jobs. I ask this as I do not want him to be so honest to the point he implicates himself.

Can anyone advise on what the chances of a successful application are when we have provided all the evidence Accomodation, Relationship and Marriage(living together - bills, child birth certificate letters from my mother and auntie who attended the lavish wedding, and Finances( my Wage Slips bankstatements and his qualifications) All this clearly indexed!!!

However what worries me is his adverse immigration history (illegal immigrant). Will the ECO need to send his application to the HO seeing he was in UK as an illegal immigrant???(entered UK using with the help of an agent using an assumed name) and this alone be a reason for refusal when all else fails?We have been living together for 2 years

[marita25]

I was perusing through Howardlee post and it seems more than anything his spouse visa application was refused on the grounds of not observing section (320) of the Immigration Rules.

In light of his post http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 368#118368 is it therefore the case that if my husband satisfies Sec(281) of the spouse visa application but because he was an illegal entrant so is not able to provide evidence of entry visa to the Uk(now has a new passport) they can refuse solely on Section (320).

I am now befuddled. Please assist.

[marita25]

On UKVisas there are :(320)Grounds on which entry clearance or leave to enter the United Kingdom should normally be refused:http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/lawand ... ules/part9


(11) failure to observe the time limit or conditions attached to any grant of leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom;

(12) the obtaining of a previous leave to enter or remain by deception;
(In my husbands case he was assisted by an agent to enter Uk, came with a false passport). He accepts he did wrong and as you may imagine not gloating about it.

On balance can these Rules outweigh my husbands application even if we satisy Sec(281) and I suppose his right to familylife. Please your help will be much appreciated as our child and I really miss his presence. Only need clarification.

[marita25]

Will await your responses with anticipation to my earlier post.

Thank you in anticipation

[John]

...... they can refuse solely on Section (320)

Well they can, but any use of Rule 320 of the Immigration Rules amounts to "throwing the book" at the applicant. Postings on this Board show that whilst Rule 320 is sometimes quoted, there are many occasions when it could be used, but is not actually used by the ECO.

Totally appreciate that this answer is hardly likely to give you much comfort.

[clm]

Marita I can understand your worry, I was in the same situation this time last year.

My husband was an illegal immigrant in Ireland for 3 years, I am Irish but have lived in the UK for 6 years which meant I could apply for a spouse visa under UK law.

He travelled home to Moldova with a travel document from his embassy in July-no questions asked at the airport. He applied for a new passport, we married in September and applied for the spouse visa in December (we had the biggest evidence folder possible). We told the complete truth throughout the application and the interview. We didnt provide any of his payslips as we didnt want to highlight the issue.

We got refused the visa in March, the refusal letter brought up many minor issues, such as my family not attending the wedding,along with his previous immigration history and concluded that the ECO did not believe we intended to live together as a married couple. We put in notice to appeal 28 days later, I found evidence to challenge each of the points the ECO refused us on.

We heard nothing until I recieved a phone call at my flat on 25TH May at 9am from the manager of the visa section in Moldova telling me that the ECO decided to stand by his decision to refuse us BUT the manager looked through our application and appeal again and overturned the ECO's decision and granted us the visa!!!!

We have been back in London together since July.

I hope this helps,

Claudia

[hmm]

marita25,
I think you are worring too much. worked here illegally or claimed to be someone else in the past shouldn't be the reason for refusal of spouse visa.
submit as many documents as possible and include a letter explaining the situation would help too. Better not lie to ECO, if you lie to ECO and found out by them can result to visa refusal over and over again. Don't forget spouse visa doesn't automatically gurantee the entry to UK...there might be questions in UKairport by immigration officers on arrival. so be prepared to answer any questions and keep all documents in hand in case needed.

Good luck.

[marita25]

My husband has been called for an interview end of this month. They have requested for him to provide his degree he completed which he will and this is were I am at a loss; Evidence of his travel history and previous passport.

Now what I do not understand about this request is when he submitted his documents we found it pertinent in the first paragraph to address that his previous residence in the UK was without leave and he did not make any applications whilst in the Uk to legalise his staye.g asylum and he however decided to leave the UK voluntarily and expressed remorse for his previous breach of UK regulations.

So I do not understand why they have now asked for him to provide evidence of entering UK and his former passport, they surely cannot expect him to present a passport an agent arranged for him with a name he hardly remembers bearing in mind he discarded the passport as soon as he entered.

If he does not provide evidence of his travel history(I think they already know he most probably will not) on the balance of probabilities will the weight of evidence tilt against him? Can he simply explain that he used a passport and visa arranged for him by an agent and he does not remember the name as is the truth.Will this implicate him.

please advise

[marita25]

Hi everyone
Can anyone please advise on my post. I am at a loss as to why they have requested evidence of his travel history and previous passport when he has highlighted in the supporting letter that he was an illegal entrant. Even if he were to produce the passport as requested would that not contravene 320 (12) coupled by the infamous (11).
Please advise
- in our case he does not have the passport he used to enter uk

[SYH]

Hi everyone
Can anyone please advise on my post. I am at a loss as to why they have requested evidence of his travel history and previous passport when he has highlighted in the supporting letter that he was an illegal entrant. Even if he were to produce the passport as requested would that not contravene 320 (12) coupled by the infamous (11).
Please advise
- in our case he does not have the passport he used to enter uk

If you don't have it, then what can you do. However by the way you are acting, it sounds like you do have it, but don't want to show it.

[marita25]

Hi everyone
Can anyone please advise on my post. I am at a loss as to why they have requested evidence of his travel history and previous passport when he has highlighted in the supporting letter that he was an illegal entrant. Even if he were to produce the passport as requested would that not contravene 320 (12) coupled by the infamous (11).
Please advise
- in our case he does not have the passport he used to enter uk