Surinder Singh a second time

[frustratedbrit]

I am a UK citizen who successfully used the Surinder Singh route via the Netherlands (not the easiest route!) to bring my non-EEA wife and stepson to the UK in December 2013. (And many thanks to the gurus on this website for advising me all along the way.) We lived in the Netherlands for 5 months renting a house, I worked a 3-month part-time contract, we registered with the local authorities and my wife and stepson had temporary residency stickers in their passports as part of the process of applying for 5-year residency cards (which they didn't get because we left for the UK before they were issued).

After we came over to live in the UK, I was offered a full-time permanent job in Germany, and we moved over to Germany in March 2014. Again we have registered with the local authorities, and my wife and stepson have temporary residency cards as part of the process of applying for 5-year residency cards. My stepson is attending a local German primary school, and I am paying German taxes including health insurance for me and my family.

We now want to come over to the UK in August for a few weeks to visit my parents. I assumed that we could use EEA Family Permits, but have recently learnt that the UK have, as of January 2014, altered the process. I hear mention that even owning a house in the UK may hinder our application. On the other hand, I also hear mention that residency cards can be used instead of EEA Family Permits. Obviously we would prefer to use the EEA Family Permit or residency cards, rather than 6-month visitor visas, because this is easier, quicker and cheaper.

My questions are these:

1) Would applications for EEA Family permits be almost certain to succeed? Would it be a problem that we have only lived in Germany for 4 months, or that I own a flat in the UK? On the other hand, would our previously successful application make it a formality?

2) Is it even necessary for us to apply for EEA Family permits? Would our previous successful application somehow enable us to enter without another application? Or would my wife and stepson be able to enter using their temporary residence cards? They are due to receive 5-year residency cards soon. Would these be sufficient to enter the UK, without even having to apply for a visa?

[confusedinpakistan]

I would imagine since you were only in the UK for about four months you may still be considered a EU national.

It all depends on what you got upto whilst you were in the UK? Did you apply for residence permits for your wife and stepson? If not the application for a EEA family permit should be pretty straight forward especially considering your last application was successful.


Germany residence cards can be used to enter the UK without a visa, but I am not sure about the temporary residence cards.

[frustratedbrit]

Whilst in the UK we didn't apply for residence permits because after a few weeks we visited family in Vietnam for over a month, and then there was prospect of getting this job in Germany and we knew about the 4-month-or-so waiting time for residence permits.

[Mrs.mdeben]

Me and my husband (British Citizen) stayed in UK for 5 months (December 2013 - May 2014) after living in Cyprus for a long time, we then came back to Cyprus and stayed for a month (May2014 - June 2014) then got married and applied for EEA FAMILY PERMIT straight after the wedding. I got the EEA FP last week and now were back here in UK.

Surinder Singh is a lot more difficult now but if you can prove to them the "centre of life" of the British citizen is already transferred then everything will be ok.

Any questions you have, just ask me, I can help.

[frustratedbrit]

Hi Mrs.mdeben,

Thanks for the encouragement. Can I ask, how did you get to the UK the first time, was it on a Family Permit too? And what type of residence permit did you have in Cyprus? What concerns me about our case is that we have only resided in Germany for 4.5 months when we make the application. so can we pass the new "centre of life" test?

[frustratedbrit]

Hi people, please if anyone can help with my questions I would be most grateful. I need to decide pretty sharpish if we go for Family Visitor Visas or EEA Family Permits. I had absolutely no idea until last week that the Surinder Singh route had been made more difficult; applying for Family Visitor Visas would be very tight in terms of timescales. I need to weigh up the risks of each option and make a decision within a day or so.

[frustratedbrit]

So I decided to go for another EEA Family Permit. I've booked an appointment for Berlin tpcontact. But it's very confusing about whether I need to pay a 59 GBP appointment fee. The poorly designed online application form tells me a few times that I must pay this fee to tpcontact, but at the end of the process tells me the total money I must pay is 0.00 (which is what I would expect for an EEA Family Permit because a basic application is supposed to be free). When I go to the tpcontact website, it asks me to choose my country, which I do but then nothing happens. I sent a query to visa4uk contact email address about whether I need to pay a fee, but I've got no reply after 2 days of waiting. The appointment is on Monday, and yet the message on the online application form said that I must pay the 59 GBP fee within 3 hours or the appointment would be cancelled. I have received no information about whether or not my application has been cancelled. But I have received an email today from visa4uk confirming the appointment!

Very very confused. Does anyone know whether I need to pay this fee, as an EEA Family Permit applicant, and if I do then how to pay it?

[Mrs.mdeben]

Hi Mrs.mdeben,

Thanks for the encouragement. Can I ask, how did you get to the UK the first time, was it on a Family Permit too? And what type of residence permit did you have in Cyprus? What concerns me about our case is that we have only resided in Germany for 4.5 months when we make the application. so can we pass the new "centre of life" test?

Hi. Sorry for my late reply, didnt noticed your message.

I was in UK using visitors visa and stayed for 5 months, came back to cyprus using visitors visa too. I was living in cyprus since I was a kid because my parents are living there, i hold a registration permit but then I left for university, came back to cyprus again after 3 years and had a job in a cruise company so the time I met my husband, I was holding a seafarer book and a landing permit, left cyprus and my job to go to UK, came back again to cyprus with visitors visa.

Its quite confusing cause I jumped around within Philippines, Cyprus and UK.

4.5 months is fine i think as long as u can prove that you already transferred your centre of your life. Just give them strong evidences and you'll be fine.

And you dont need to pay for application. It happened to me when I applied, they keep on telling me to pay for 75 euros which is 59 pounds, gave them the money then when for my appointment, the woman said I dont need to pay and they refunded my money after 3 days.

[frustratedbrit]

That's reassuring, thanks.

You've had a complicated story, and I'm so pleased for you that it worked out in the end.

[surindersingh4us]

Me and my husband (British Citizen) stayed in UK for 5 months (December 2013 - May 2014) after living in Cyprus for a long time, we then came back to Cyprus and stayed for a month (May2014 - June 2014) then got married and applied for EEA FAMILY PERMIT straight after the wedding. I got the EEA FP last week and now were back here in UK.

Surinder Singh is a lot more difficult now but if you can prove to them the "centre of life" of the British citizen is already transferred then everything will be ok.

Any questions you have, just ask me, I can help.

Hi there Me and My husband want to apply for Catagory C visa to do ss route via cyprus, what other things would we need, after the british passport, non eu passport, marriage certificate in english, photographs and cover letters, and application forms?we should be able to send hotel bookings and flight plans.please help any pointers will be greatly appreciated.

[surindersingh4us]

Hi everyone, we want to apply for cyprus to use surinder singh route, what should we send except normal list objects? do we need anything translated in to greek or any pointers , do i have to be in the same country as my husband at the time or can we apply from two different countries ?but travel together to cypru.s

[frustratedbrit]

How easy it is to get into the "host" country (Cyprus) depends on the country (ask their embassy in your country), but you can at least use EU Directive 2004/38, in which case:

1. It helps if your husband has a job offer letter for a job in the host country;
2. You should either be joining your husband in the host country or travelling with him;
3. Your marriage should be recognised by the host country, so the marriage certificate may need to be translated into a recognised language (English should do) and have the relevant authentication stamps on it. Again, check with the embassy about precisely what is required. In what country did you get married?

Note that the place where you make your application may not know the rules properly. When using the Directive to get a visa for the Netherlands from the UK, I was (wrongly) told that I needed to apply from the VFS Global application centre at the Battleship Building in London, who didn't know about EU Directive 2004/38 (let alone Surinder Singh) and refused to process our application. Avoid these multi-country visa processing centres if at all possible - they treat you like cattle and the staff don't know about special cases. Talk directly with the embassy, making clear you are using the Directive and so don't need to supply the normal documentation required for normal visa applications, and ask them about whether for your case it is possible to apply directly through the embassy or a consulate. I found out that I could apply through a Dutch consulate, and even there the staff didn't know the rules and I had to be extremely assertive to get the application processed. I imagine that Cyprus wouldn't have such a bad attitude, but it's something to be wary of. In which country are you going to apply from?

For the UK to recognise that the Directive applies when applying for an EEA Family Permit to get back into the UK, you must demonstrate that you "shifted your centre of life" together to the host country (i.e. lived there together for over 3 months, registered there as residents, whilst your husband performed a job there). If he is unemployed or self-employed or the job is temporary or part-time, then you might get trouble from the UK even though under the Directive you qualify.

Note that, to register as a resident in a country, you may need your marriage certificate to be recognised by the country, and this may require a higher level of authentication than to get a visa into the country. For me the host was the Netherlands first time and Germany second time, and translation into English for the marriage certificate was good enough for the Netherlands, but needed translation into German for Germany, and both times the original and translation required a stamp of authentication from the foreign office of the country in which we got married (Vietnam). First ask the embassy, but note that they might not know all the details, so best to double check by getting directly in touch the relevant authority in Cyprus to make absolutely sure what documents you need when you register there.

[frustratedbrit]

Update: The advice from Mrs.mdeben was spot on, it appears. We applied for EEA Family Permits 2 weeks ago from Berlin, and got them today in the post. Despite the very confusing website, no appointment fee was required. All entries in the application form to do with income, wealth, intended duration of stay, previous employment history, etc were filled out with N/A. We had been living in Germany for 4.5 months when the application was made. In addition to passports, marriage certificate and stepson's birth certificate, we supplied a tonne of evidence about centre of life shifting to Germany, including job contract, wage slips, rental contract, health insurance, temporary residence cards, letters from German school, German bank account, etc. Note that everything had to be photocopied and nothing was returned other than the passports. Also note that it was sufficient for us to supply photocopies of marriage and birth certificate when I told them that the originals were currently held by the German authorities for our residency application.

[manUTd]

Hi frustratedbrit congrats☺ . I have a question and hope you can shed some light on it- regarding the health insurance you had did it cover you in germany as well or was it only for uk

[mak35]

I am a UK citizen who successfully used the Surinder Singh route via the Netherlands (not the easiest route!) to bring my non-EEA wife and stepson to the UK in December 2013. (And many thanks to the gurus on this website for advising me all along the way.) We lived in the Netherlands for 5 months renting a house, I worked a 3-month part-time contract, we registered with the local authorities and my wife and stepson had temporary residency stickers in their passports as part of the process of applying for 5-year residency cards (which they didn't get because we left for the UK before they were issued).

After we came over to live in the UK, I was offered a full-time permanent job in Germany, and we moved over to Germany in March 2014. Again we have registered with the local authorities, and my wife and stepson have temporary residency cards as part of the process of applying for 5-year residency cards. My stepson is attending a local German primary school, and I am paying German taxes including health insurance for me and my family.

Hi Frustratedbrit,

It is really good to read that you have succeeded couple of times using SS route. I need some expert advice on moving to Netherlands and what I need to excercise my treaty rights

I want to exercise SS route for my non-EU dependent parents. They have been visiting UK since 2005 but now becoming old and frail so I want them to live with me since we have lived away from each other for so long.

To exercise this route, Ireland seemed to be a good option but I have been offered a IT Contract role in Netherlands so I am thinking to just take this opportunity and go to NL instead

I am a British National and my wife is Non-EEA national with Indefinite Leave to Remain in UK. We got her UK resident permit last year. My parents still reside in Non-EEA state and are financially and emotionally dependent on me.

My questions are:

1) Does my wife require a visa to the Netherlands even if she is a UK Resident and holder of UK Resident permit? Can she accompany me to NL without applying for any visa?
2) Once in NL, what type of visa do I need to apply for my parents to come join me in NL. They may be able to apply for a visit or some sort of short stay visa but is it better to apply for a long term visa?
3) Generally, how long does it take for NL authorities to issue for a short and long term stay visa?
4) How long do my parents need to stay with me in NL to show that we have created a strong family bond
5) I also own a house in UK. Was that a problem for you when obtaining the EEA permit for UK?

I know you have used SS route for spouse visa but any advice you or anyone on this forum can offer would be absolutely critical for me.

Many thanks

[statelessBOC]

Hi frustratedbrit,

Please, please, please help me. I needed advice and guidance on how to go about the Surinder Singh route so. My husband is thinking of going through Amsterdam but i have just been reading the Holland's immigration website and i have very grave concern. As you did your SS through that country before I thought perhaps you can provide me with guidelines and advice? I am very, very, very desperate. Can you please email me at xxxxxxxxxxxxx ? Thank you very much!!

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[noajthan]

OP has not been active on this thead since 2014 - suggest create a fresh topic for your question!