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Spouse MUST arrive in UK BEFORE Non-EEA husband?!?!

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Peter Kartalov
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Spouse MUST arrive in UK BEFORE Non-EEA husband?!?!

Post by Peter Kartalov » Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:43 pm

I am a Bulgarian national married to a Lithuanian. My question is;
Can we arrive in the UK together, or must she first get there, find a job, get all the work papers, and only then apply for my joining her?
Thanx for the help.

John
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Gaining entrance to the UK

Post by John » Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:23 pm

In practice no airline is going to let you board an aircraft going to the UK unless you have a permit or visa already in your passport. Airlines get fined £2000 per passenger they bring in who need authorisation and don't have it.

Your details say that you are in New York. Accordingly contact the British Consulate in New York. Enquire about getting an EEA Family Permit put into your passport. Under EU regulations there is no charge for such a permit. Have a look at :-

Nationals of the European Economic Area (EEA) and Switzerland

But the list of EEA countries? Suspect that this has simply not been updated after new countries joined on 01.05.04.

The answer to your question? Given I think by the section headed "What entry Clearance is required?". So indeed is it an EEA Family Permit you need, or a visa? The Permit will be a lot easier and cheaper to get.

Peter Kartalov
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Post by Peter Kartalov » Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:20 am

I believe I need to fill up VAF1(or somthing like that) form that is for entry clearance based on being the husband(dependent) of a EEA national(my wife is Lithuanian).
My question was:
Can I apply for entrty clearance before my wife has established herself(has arrived and found job) in the UK?
We would like to enter the UK together for the first time.
I hope I make myself clearer.
Thanx for the help.

John
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Post by John » Sat Nov 13, 2004 9:01 am

VAF1 is indeed the form that needs to be used. And yes, you can submit that form before your wife travels to the UK .... so that after the granting of the EEA Family Permit the two of you will be able to travel to the UK together.

That is, your wife will be exercising her community rights to enter the UK, and once here is fully entitled to work. However, being a national of one of the new EU countries she will need to register under the special registration scheme currently applying to such nationals. That is not the same as applying for permission to work, but nevertheless there is the need to register, so that the UK Government knows how many workers from the new EU countries have entered to work.

You are entitled to accompany her but need an EEA Family Permit.

In the link already provided to you, you will see that there is an ability to apply via "Fastract". Certainly do that, and then obviously follow all the instructions you are given.

Hope it all works out, but why not? :D

Peter Kartalov
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Post by Peter Kartalov » Sat Nov 13, 2004 1:57 pm

Thanx John.
Does anyone know how much money we should declare as a proof of sufficient funds?
Thanx again
Peter

John
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No set amount

Post by John » Sat Nov 13, 2004 4:06 pm

Peter, I don't think there is any set amount. That would depend upon personal circumstances.

Q6.10 of the form VAF1 asks "How much money is available to you for your stay?". Fully understand if you don't want to answer publicly, but what sort of amount are you intending to show there?

The following page gives lots of additional guidance, including much about getting Residence Permits once you and your wife are in the UK :-

EEA/EU nationals

That includes :-
You have a right of residence in the United Kingdom if you are an EEA national and:

* you are working in the United Kingdom; or
* you do not work in the United Kingdom but you have enough money to support yourself throughout your stay without help from public funds.

Public funds include Income Support, Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit.
In other words, the likelihood of getting a job may well impact upon how much money would be needed to prove that no claim on Public Funds would be needed.

Peter Kartalov
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Post by Peter Kartalov » Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:10 am

I believe we(my wife and I ) will have about $US 50,000.
How does that sound? Is it enough?

John
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Is US$50000 enough?

Post by John » Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:00 am

Is US$50000 enough, as an answer to Q6.10 on the VAF1 form?

Clearly that sort of amount will clearly show that no claim for UK Public Funds would be require, even in the most pessimistic circumstances. That is, worse case, if both you and your wife could not find any work for say a year, well you are not going to be starving, are you! And by then you would have concluded that maybe trying to live in the UK is not such a good idea after all.

Seriously, most people needing to prove that no claim on UK Public Funds will be needed probably show significantly less than the Sterling equivalent of US$50000. But still show that amount as as answer if that is indeed the sort of amount available.

Peter Kartalov
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Post by Peter Kartalov » Sun Nov 14, 2004 2:19 pm

Yes, $50000 will be available!
Now, before I ask another question, I'dlike t othank you for the quick response so far. It's been very helpful.
On the VAF1 for there is a section which asks for the current employment of mine. Are they talking about my employment in New York? I believe it will be better if I apply from Bulgaria. Am I right? And if/when I leave USA to go to Bulgaria to arrange all the documents for UK I don't think I will be looking for a job there. Bottom line, right at the moment of application I will not be employed. Should I state in the form that I DO NOT WORK(leave the fields blank)?!?!.
Additionally, even though, I have a Bachelors degree in Computer Information Systems from a college in NYC, I work as a waiter here. Do you think this will be a "minus" for my application?
OK, too many questions already. I will be so greatful if you give me some reliable answers to them. Thanx a lot
Peter

John
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Where to apply?

Post by John » Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:57 pm

If you are currently living in New York then I think that is where you need to apply. I can't see any logic in travelling back to Bulgaria just to make an application there, and indeed as the general rule is that you need to make the application where you are normally living at the time. So it is conceivable that the British Embassy in Bulgaria may even decline to deal with the application, or would refer it to New York (causing a long delay).

But can I ask, how long have you been living in the States?

How to complete the form VAF1? You will appreciate that the form attempts to deal with a number of different situations, not just an EEA Family Permit. You refer to Section 6 of the form. I think ... if in doubt .. .answer the questions honestly, even if it does not appear logical to do so. You will see that there are sections of the form, such as Sections 7, 8 and 9, that will not need to be completed by you. I agree that logically Section 6 does not appear too relevant to you but as the designer of the form seems to want it completed by everyone, I think you need to do so.

However, Section 10! That provides a great chance for you to explain that the employment mentioned in Section 6 will of course be ended shortly before you move to the UK.

Of course if you have given up the employment when you apply, say that in Section 6. Don't just leave the section totally blank.

Working as a waiter a minus point? Certainly not. But again, why not use Section 10 as an opportunity to give details of your Degree?

Finally, it would be wrong to think of the issue of an EEA Family Permit as a total formality, but really it is one of the easiest applications to make. On proving your family relationship with an EEA National, and assuming you have not disclosed horrendous criminal convictions in Section 4 of the form, the permit will be issued! It is not a question of you needing to prove that you will be able to get a wonderful job and earn lots of money, or anything like that. It is as simple as :-
  • your wife as an EEA Citizen having the right to live and work in the UK (to work subject only to her simply registering that fact)
  • your as a non-EEA citizen being her Family Member, you have the right to live with her, and accordingly the same rights as her
The only difference is that whilst your wife's passport proves her rights, you need an EEA Family Permit in your Bulgarian passport in order to prove your right to be with her.

Peter Kartalov
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Post by Peter Kartalov » Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:32 am

Thanx again for the detailed and quick response.
On why I think I need to go back to Bulgaria and apply from there.
I came to US in 2000 on a summer student work exchange program. Before the end of my stay I decided to enroll into a college would normally let me switch my immigration status (as long as I maintain full credits at college). However INS(Immigration and Naturalization Services) denied my(and my wife's application-we both went through the exact same procedure) application. We were never asked exclusively to leave the country and we decided to stay and complete our education. We have basically been out of status. That is why I was thinking that the UK Gov may not look with a good eye on the fact that we have unlawfully overstayed in the US. I was thinking that applying from Bulgaria may save us some difficulty. What is your opinion on the whole idea and situation?
Thanx
Peter

John
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Where to apply?

Post by John » Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:33 am

That is why I was thinking that the UK Gov may not look with a good eye on the fact that we have unlawfully overstayed in the US.
First point ... I don't see a problem. As you say, "We were never asked exclusively to leave the country".

Second point ... even if there is a problem, surely that would be disclosed by your passport, wherever you apply?

Why not ask the British Consulate in New York where you should apply? That surely cannot do any harm. Given that you have been living in the US for over four years, it seems to me that you should be applying there, but why not get that confirmed by the Consulate?

Final point. It is surely easier for you to apply there in New York rather than in Bulgaria. I think ... don't complicate matters unnecessarily. Contact details :-

British Consulate-General
New York, NY

Peter Kartalov
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Post by Peter Kartalov » Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:45 pm

You see, even though we were not exclusively asked to leave the country, I am sure (and lawyers have confirmend) that we've screwed up. Also, I am afraid that if I contact the UK Consulate in NY they will say that there will be no problem just so I can apply, give them all the information and fill up all the papers, and then get rejected...
I realize that this is not a question, but rather my concerns. I was just looking for opinion by someone who's been in my situation( I can't be the first one)
Thanx alot for the help again.
Deeply appreciated.
Peter

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