Bringing non EU spouse to UK

[Sumon]

Dear All

Can anyone please explain why year ending certificate and 12 months business bank accounts are required as part of the financial requirement if I am to bring my Non EU spouse to the UK. I am a British citizen residing in the UK, work in IT as a contractor operating through my own private limited company. Why do I have to wait till may 2015 for my Year Ending? I already can prove through invoices, business bank statements and pay slips that I already have been paid over £18600 before tax. Home Office refuses to respond to my query and skirts around it because probably they do not have an answer.

Looking forward to hearing from you soon.

Regards
Sumon Kar

[MPH80]

There's the short answer to this - 'thems the rules!'

But the truth of it is:

Invoices - I can produce you a realistic looking invoice in 10 minutes in Word - easy to fake. Very hard to verify - you try getting past the front desk of a company asking for 'finance'.
Business bank accounts - easy to manipulate when you're the sole shareholder.
Payslips - easy to fake when you're the sole shareholder. Easy to 'overpay' yourself when you're the sole shareholder.

On the other hand ...

HMRC corporate tax statements - much harder to fake and come with a nice criminal penalty if you mis-state the details. Oh - and one branch of the government can easily check with another the details.
Audited accounts - come with a nice little threat against the auditor of the accounts if they haven't audited properly.
etc.

There's a reason they choose the documents they do.

[Sumon]

Thank you for your response. But if I was faking it, can the Home Office not verify with my client an international business how much they are paying me? I can send them my contract details. Money coming into my business account will come from a legit source. They can check with the bank. I got nothing to hide. They ask for £900 for the application. Do they not check if I am legally earning what I am claiming? In which case I can fake anything and get the visa because they are just plain lazy. Saying that if I can fake all the pperwork what will my CT600 and 12 month business bank statement prove to them?

invoices- I can produce you a realistic looking invoice in 10 minutes in Word - easy to bad quality. Very hard to verify - you try getting past the front desk of a company asking for 'finance'. Invoices are prepared by my accountant, in return the company with whom I am contracted with sends an invoice to my client.

Business bank accounts - easy to manipulate when you're the sole shareholder. How? What my client pays me, can be verified with the business bank account.

Payslips - easy to bad quality when you're the sole shareholder. Easy to 'overpay' yourself when you're the sole shareholder. You are right . I can withdraw all the money as salary. But as per my accountant they have separated the money I should keep aside for future taxes and funds I can withdraw which again is more than £18600.

Why is this so complicated when home Office can just pick up the phone or email and verify with my client and the organisation I am contracted to how much I Have been paid till date?

[MPH80]

Passing in the CT600 will show that you've filed that information with HMRC. As a government agency they can go and check that easily. It also comes with all the legal obligations associated with it. Forge it - they'll be knocking at your door.

Providing an invoice of a company proves nothing. My mate runs a company - he'd happily answer a phone and say 'of course' when asked. Getting to the finance department of a large company is hard - my company's front desk is expert at avoiding passing on a call even when they are asked for by name. Heck - I once had a recruitment agent manage to sneak his way past by claiming to be Dominoes Pizza querying my order for the office.

Getting them to release information over the phone is much harder. Imagine the conversation if the phone rang at your desk "Hello - this is Bob from UKBA - I need to know if you paid £x to y". Would you trust that person - would you answer? Could be a competitor trying to find out a contract value!

But in the end - it doesn't matter - that's what UKBA require. If you submit anything else - it's a simple rejection.

[Casa]

For anyone who is wondering....our spam control auto changes f a k e to 'bad quality'

[Sumon]

So, if I am an employee, why are the rules different? I just have to show the contract letter mentioning my salary. My mate could claim to be my employer too and tell the Home Office I work for his company. But As a contractor Does the contract paper I hold mentioning the amount of my daily wages have no value? It is supposed to be a legally binding document. Invoices provided by my accountant shows the number of days I have worked and issued electronically through a portal. I am sorry if I sound like I am whining, but it still seems to me the requirement are all illogical as I am prepared to provide all the contacts for them to verify.

[Sumon]

So, if I am an employee, why are the rules different? I just have to show the contract letter mentioning my salary. My mate could claim to be my employer too and tell the Home Office I work for his company. But As a contractor Does the contract paper I hold mentioning the amount of my daily wages have no value? It is supposed to be a legally binding document. Invoices provided by my accountant shows the number of days I have worked and issued electronically through a portal. I am sorry if I sound like I am whining, but it still seems to me the requirement are all illogical as I am prepared to provide all the contacts for them to verify.

[MPH80]

Because - as an employee - your 6 months of payslips can be checked against the PAYE RTI database and validated. Your pay entering your bank balance can't be altered at whim because it's your finance department who do it.

Sure - if you work for your mate who makes the alterations for you - then yes - they could manipulate the payslips and pay you more - artificially for 6 months - but now that information is on the RTI database instantly and they'll owe the income tax/ni on it. They'll also owe the additional employers NI. Oh - and if they then try to hide those (at least) £9300 of payments out pre-employer NI - the auditors will start asking questions.

Expensive penalty to help someone out and far less likely to be manipulated.

UKBA have taken a view that a self-employed contractor can manipulate their finances too easily so require evidence from the previous financial year.

If you'd like to challenge that - you can submit the evidence you have and get rejected then take it through the tribunal system - get rejected again - and then submit a judicial review, see if you can get UKBA to respond rather than just bail out and then change the law that way. By the time you've done that - you'll be £££ down from solicitors fees and your financial year will have been and gone - maybe a couple of times.

[Wanderer]

MPH80 - Contractors (in IT) have to work via a Ltd, and the individual is the director and the only employee - it's not self-employment, it's basically a one-man ltd company, so can see where the OP is coming from - PAYE/Div is paid per RTI/CT600, his tax affairs are legally not those of his Ltd...

But, I can see HMRC POV too, I'm in the same industry and I've seen so many just not bother with the tax and take the lot, and hide behind incorporation, and I have to say it, a lot from the subcontinent who just go back home with the lot after 5 years never to come back.

OP is not one of those, he's looking to settle but I feel this is why UKBA/HMRC are reticent, and as MPH80 says - they are connected so one influences the other....

[Sumon]

@MPH80 so you are saying an employee just needs to show his/her contract letter stating gross income as £18600 as HMRC is guaranteed to receive tax on a monthly basis, but contractors need to provide their CT600 as that proves they have paid their taxes. Is that correct?

@Wanderer. Although my origins are from the subcontinent, I am a british born citizen and it is unlikely I will take the lot and move out. But how is it possible someone not pay tax for 5 years and leave? Isn't that incompetency on behalf of HMRC?

[MPH80]

MPH80 - Contractors (in IT) have to work via a Ltd, and the individual is the director and the only employee - it's not self-employment, it's basically a one-man ltd company, so can see where the OP is coming from - PAYE/Div is paid per RTI/CT600, his tax affairs are legally not those of his Ltd...

But, I can see HMRC POV too, I'm in the same industry and I've seen so many just not bother with the tax and take the lot, and hide behind incorporation, and I have to say it, a lot from the subcontinent who just go back home with the lot after 5 years never to come back.

OP is not one of those, he's looking to settle but I feel this is why UKBA/HMRC are reticent, and as MPH80 says - they are connected so one influences the other....

Oh I get that Wanderer - I spent a good part of the 00s as a contractor in IT myself. But I also know that the amount you pay yourself and the dividends taken out of the business are the discretion of the directors. Since there's only one and he's also the employee - he can choose how to setup the company finances as he likes.

As such - there are specific provisions under the spouse visa which require someone who is a director of a qualifying limited company - and it's one with few shareholders or where the shareholders are limited to family - to show the financial details of the company. Since that's easy to manipulate in a company with few shareholders - they require HMRC evidence - which requires the previous financial year.

The easier, most simple, abuse profile for this is (if UKBA went for current financial year):
1) Establish limited company
2) Take out loan on generic business plan
3) Pay self out of loan for 9 months.
4) After 6 - apply for spouse visa
5) After spouse visa obtained - fold company. Rinse and repeat on 2.5 yearly cycles as required.

UKBA is looking for avenues of abuse. An employee has fewer because they can't manipulate their situation as easy as someone when they are the sole director of a limited company - which, let's face it, is only really done for tax purposes!

@MPH80 so you are saying an employee just needs to show his/her contract letter stating gross income as £18600 as HMRC is guaranteed to receive tax on a monthly basis, but contractors need to provide their CT600 as that proves they have paid their taxes. Is that correct?

An employee needs to show their employment contract, 6-12 months of payslips depending on their categories and the corresponding 6-12 months of bank statements showing that pay arriving in their bank account.

A director of a company where the number of shareholders is small needs to show the CT600, evidence of ongoing trading, as well as payslips/bank statements etc for the given financial period.

[Sumon]

Thanks. Its beyond me why the Home Office or MPs running the Home Office refuse to answer my question because as per them it is against their policy as their answer might be misconstrued. They either keep you running around in circles, give out useless phone numbers to call, point you to govt websites that do not answer my question or tell you to get legal advise. Basically want you broke, frustrated and harassed. Wish I found this board earlier instead of chasing the Home Office and MPs for past few months.

One more question if I may, my contract ends by Jan 2015. If I do not get another contract immediately my year ending will still be may 2015 but I will not be able to show 12 month business bank statement, as it will only be till jan 2015. Will these further delay my wifes application? What if I become an employee after Jan? Would I need to wait for further 6 months?

[MPH80]

You won't be closing your bank statements as, unless you wind your ltd company up, it'll still be running. So you'll still have statements you can show. And, providing there is still ongoing trading, you can use the total income from the year.

If you become an employee - then yes - you need to wait a further 6 months.