Refusal of family permit to my mother

anyanthony · Post by **anyanthony** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:26 pm

I applied for a family permit for my mum in Lagos to attend my graduation back in April, but this was refused. My mum is wholly dependent on me and after speaking to UK visas, they advised that I applied for a family permit, which I advised my mum to do.

My mum was not given any written reason for refusal, but from what she told me she said that the entry officer did not believe that she was dependent on me since she has seven children. Not quite sure if there are other reasons, but difficult to tell since there is no written reason for refusal.

An appeal date has been scheduled for early October, and now am not sure what to do. I still don't have the written reasons for refusal (the notice sent to me instructed the entry office to provide me/AIT with the written reasons for refusal or the case would be heard in its absence).

What should I do and do I have a legal case. I spoke to someone from the home office today who said that my mother doesn't have a right to be here with a family permit and that I should have applied for a normal visa.Is that the case? Please advise

Thank you

Mr T

VictoriaS · Post by **VictoriaS** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:30 pm

It is unlawful for your mother to have been refused a visa but not issued a refusal notice. Utterly, utterly outrageous.

Do you want her to visit or to live with you? I am unsure, and I am unsure which she applied for.

If she applied for settlement as an elderly dependent relative, then with seven children it is going to be very difficult to prove that there is no one else to support her.

Victoria

OL7MAX · Post by **OL7MAX** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:08 pm

I won't comment on your current situation or your best move forward. I will however tell you how things are likely to pan out given the above facts.

1. You will attend the AIT hearing
2. They will send a poorly prepared mug to present their case
3. The IAT judge will rule in your favour (they don't like parties ignoring their demands for paper)
4. You mother will still not be allowed in
5. You will rant and rave and contact your local MP to get the HO to implement the Court Order
6. MP will write to HO. They'll reply with some BS about papers getting lost in the post
7. They still won't get off their butts and implement the court order
8. Your lawyer will tell you that your options are now to launch some expensive judicial review proceeding or drop the whole case

anyanthony · Post by **anyanthony** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:41 pm

Thanks Victoria.

My mum was only comimg for my graduation, and she was meant to stay with us for about 3 weeks. That's it.

And now my wife is due to deliver in three months time and we/she would like to visit.

VictoriaS · Post by **VictoriaS** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:37 pm

Bizarre.

I just can't see what has happened. You need to force the consulate to issue the refusal notice. Complain to everyone you can think of. I'd start with the complaints form on the UK Visas website.

Victoria

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:01 pm

Isn't Family Permit for those exercising treaty rights in EU?

stmellon · Post by **stmellon** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:22 am

Does anyone else think that this could be a case of very bad advice from UK Visas? If Mother was only coming for three weeks, surely all she needs is a visitor visa, which would not require evidence that she was wholly dependent on anyanthony?

yankeegirl · Post by **yankeegirl** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:24 am

Anyanthony, what is your nationality?

immigration1 · Post by **immigration1** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:29 am

Family permits are issued to non-EEA dependants who are coming to the UK with or to join the main EEA national who is exercising a Treaty Right. Why did she apply for this visa? Are you an EU citizen? If you are not an EU citizen then I think that person at the HO was right, your mother should have applied for a normal visitor's visa for single entry. I would definitely get the MP involved and force them to provide you with the Refusal Notice and the relevant documents including the Interview notes and Expalantory Statement. Also, if you do not receive these before the Hearing date, tell the Immigration Judge that the ECO cannot rely on the documents as they have not complied with Rule 13 (1) (c) of the The Asylum and Immigration Tribunal (Procedure) Rules 2005. You must see these documents before hand as they might contain some detrimental information that you need to prepare to counter-argue. In addition, I'd also complain to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office as suggested above and would definitely get an immigration solicitor involved. However, you have to bear in mind that your graduation is now over so what would be the primary purpose of the visit if she came to the UK now? This might likely come up at the Hearing. Best of British luck.

jes2jes · Post by **jes2jes** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:42 pm

anyanthony wrote:I applied for a family permit for my mum in Lagos to attend my graduation back in April, but this was refused. My mum is wholly dependent on me and after speaking to UK visas, they advised that I applied for a family permit, which I advised my mum to do.

My mum was not given any written reason for refusal, but from what she told me she said that the entry officer did not believe that she was dependent on me since she has seven children. Not quite sure if there are other reasons, but difficult to tell since there is no written reason for refusal.

An appeal date has been scheduled for early October, and now am not sure what to do. I still don't have the written reasons for refusal (the notice sent to me instructed the entry office to provide me/AIT with the written reasons for refusal or the case would be heard in its absence).

What should I do and do I have a legal case. I spoke to someone from the home office today who said that my mother doesn't have a right to be here with a family permit and that I should have applied for a normal visa.Is that the case? Please advise

Thank you

Mr T

Bad advise. My Mother-In-Law (MIL) who has been visiting for a couple of years now went to the BHC 1st Q of this year for a VV. The agents for the BHC (these days they use some agents to forward the application) told her she needs to apply for a Family Permit (FP).

She called me with this news and I told her no just apply for a normal VV as usual but these guys don't know what they are talking about

They told her she would be refused and her form would not be accepted. I called them and told them, their job there is to make sure the application form has been filled right and all necessary documents have been attached. The decision on the application I informed them rightly lies with the ECO so they should not try to misinform my MIL.

It turns out I was right and she was granted a multi entry Visa without any interview.

You need to 'put your foot down' when it comes to some of these things since you would loose.

Sorry mate but re-apply for a VV if you have the money and time.

VictoriaS · Post by **VictoriaS** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:06 pm

And complain!!!!

The 'courier' firms are screwing people all over the world, and complaints must be made!

Victoria

anyanthony · Post by **anyanthony** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:34 pm

Am Nigerian but my wife is an EU citizen exercising full treaty right. I also know my graduation is over but right now we' re expecting a baby and my mum would like to visit. However am not sure whether they will look at today's circumstances or the circumstances at the time of the refusal.

Also do I have to have a solicitor or can/should I defend myself.

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:38 pm

Even if your mother is going to be visiting you and your EU wife, since she is not a dependant, she has to apply for the Visit Visa under the UK laws and not the EEA Family Permit. As adviced above, best to re-apply for the VV using the correct documents.

anyanthony · Post by **anyanthony** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:21 pm

She is dependant

sakura · Post by **sakura** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:15 pm

anyanthony wrote:She is dependant

I am getting confused;

1. Did you want your mother to visit you (and then return home) or live with you for a long-term?
2. Was she intending on staying in the UK permanently, using the EEA family permit route?
3. What visas did you apply for? What proof did you submit?

If she just wants a visit, then apply for a UK visitor's visa. If she wants to move here permanently, then apply for the EEA permit showing proof of dependency. What'll happen to her other children - how old are they?

pantaiema · Post by **pantaiema** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:35 pm

I would have told so. It is certainly raise an eyebrow. WHy do U need Family Visa just for your graduation not just apply for visiot Visa.

stmellon wrote:Does anyone else think that this could be a case of very bad advice from UK Visas? If Mother was only coming for three weeks, surely all she needs is a visitor visa, which would not require evidence that she was wholly dependent on anyanthony?

anyanthony · Post by **anyanthony** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:21 pm

The application for a family permit was solely on the basis that my mum was dependent on me. There was no plan for her to stay here long term but does she have to want to stay here long term to be issued with a family permit?

From my experience with the BHC, I don't think that appling for a normal visa would have made any difference.

Meanwhile, I received this morning documents from AIT and among d documents was the notice for refusal. Unlike the impressiom my mum had about the reason for refusal, the main reason given for refusal is that there was not enough evidence/documents to establish/confirm that she is genuinely related to me as claimed. This is even though my mum attended the interview with some family pics. It doesn't make sense.

I appreciate all your responses but some people don't seem to have bothered to read the whole case b4 posting their advice. Pls read up as this will enable u give better advice. Thanks

avjones · Post by **avjones** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:32 am

anyanthony wrote: Unlike the impressiom my mum had about the reason for refusal, the main reason given for refusal is that there was not enough evidence/documents to establish/confirm that she is genuinely related to me as claimed. This is even though my mum attended the interview with some family pics. It doesn't make sense.

It is harsh, but does make sense. A few photos don't prove a blood relationship, in some ECOs eyes.

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:54 pm

the main reason given for refusal is that there was not enough evidence/documents to establish/confirm that she is genuinely related to me as claimed

What?!! She is your mother. Don't you have a Birth Certificate that mentions her as your mother? That along with both your passports should prove her relationship to you. If that is the only reason given, and you had originally given the above mentioned documents, appeal the decision. This is an appaling reason and should not be tolerated if you had presented your Birth Certificate! Unless you have one similar to the old short Birth Certificates like from over here that states only your name and DOB.

VictoriaS · Post by **VictoriaS** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:05 pm

You'd be surprised. They sometimes insist on DNA tests...at the applicant's expense, of course.

Victoria

Docterror · Post by **Docterror** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:43 am

Yes, I had seen that in the DSPs. But it is a fairly recent addition. Wasn't there till about last year.

OL7MAX · Post by **OL7MAX** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:43 pm

Don't you have a Birth Certificate that mentions her as your mother?

For $1.50 you can get an "officially issued" Nigerian birth certificate certifying that your parents are Mother Theresa and ... Blackbeard.

VictoriaS · Post by **VictoriaS** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:02 pm

Docterror wrote:Yes, I had seen that in the DSPs. But it is a fairly recent addition. Wasn't there till about last year.

Maybe not, but they've been doing it for ages.

Victoria

pantaiema · Post by **pantaiema** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:46 pm

I do not know about BHC in Nigeria we need to hear more from people applying for visiot Visa. But in other countries I am pretty sure that applying visitor visa will be much easier than family permit.

For other category, U need solid evidence that she enterily depends on U. There is already a long discussion about this in this forum. Use the search facilities

anyanthony wrote:
From my experience with the BHC, I don't think that appling for a normal visa would have made any difference.

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