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Extented family member

Use this section for any queries concerning the EU Settlement Scheme, for applicants holding pre-settled and settled status.

Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, CR001, zimba, meself2

Zoopla22
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Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:03 am

Re: Extented family member

Post by Zoopla22 » Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:45 pm

El patron any comments please?

el patron
Member of Standing
Posts: 335
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:06 pm
Location: Northern Ireland

Re: Extented family member

Post by el patron » Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:18 pm

Read the Pedro case - http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2009/1358.html - which states family members do not have to be dependant in country of origin.

Also read the lebon case, it established claim to benefits does not automatically sever the dependency, read it here - http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/ ... 16&from=EN

The answers you are looking for are there for the reading!

Zoopla22
Newbie
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:03 am

Re: Extented family member

Post by Zoopla22 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:29 am

Thanks El patron.it gives me hope at least i have got some chances to succeed my parents case.

Zoopla22
Newbie
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:03 am

Re: Extented family member

Post by Zoopla22 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:44 pm

Hi El patron and obie I need advice please.i submitted my parents application and recieved confirmation letter from home office unfortunatly my grand dad is really in serious condition my parents want to travel back home my parents already overstayed by 5 weeks.please advice what is the best option for them to ask for passport back without effecting their application.can they also come back on their visit visa their visit visa is still valid until end of this year.

Zoopla22
Newbie
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:03 am

Re: Extented family member

Post by Zoopla22 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:07 pm

Guys please help?

Zoopla22
Newbie
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:03 am

Re: Extented family member

Post by Zoopla22 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:30 pm

Any one who can help please guys?

Zoopla22
Newbie
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:03 am

Re: Extented family member

Post by Zoopla22 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:30 pm

Any one who can help please guys?

Zoopla22
Newbie
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:03 am

Re: Extented family member

Post by Zoopla22 » Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:11 pm

Guys comon please help

Zoopla22
Newbie
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:03 am

Re: Extented family member

Post by Zoopla22 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:45 am

Zoopla22 wrote:Guys comon please help

Ikonkar
Member
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:51 pm
India

Re: Extented family member

Post by Ikonkar » Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:52 am

Hi Zoopla,

I hope the attchement would help, please note this was purely based on my parents personal circumstances where HO refused our initial application on the fact that case worker took into account that my parents (non-EEA national) falls under extended family member and not direct family member. I hope this would outline the facts and case laws and may help your family in securing the residence cards.

Please note this is the letter I received from Solvit at the time of refusal and these were there legal analysis of our case.

Hope this helps.

Thanks
GOD BLESS
Ikonkar

Zoopla22
Newbie
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:03 am

Re: Extented family member

Post by Zoopla22 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:32 pm

Hi ikonakar

Thanks for reply but thier is no any attachment with this message

el patron
Member of Standing
Posts: 335
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:06 pm
Location: Northern Ireland

Re: Extented family member

Post by el patron » Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:20 pm

Ikonkar wrote:Hi Zoopla,

I hope the attchement would help, please note this was purely based on my parents personal circumstances where HO refused our initial application on the fact that case worker took into account that my parents (non-EEA national) falls under extended family member and not direct family member. I hope this would outline the facts and case laws and may help your family in securing the residence cards.

Please note this is the letter I received from Solvit at the time of refusal and these were there legal analysis of our case.

Hope this helps.

Thanks
Yes interested in seeing the attachment too!

Ikonkar
Member
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:51 pm
India

Re: Extented family member

Post by Ikonkar » Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:34 pm

sorry guys it's not letting me attach it. I've copied and pasted it below -

Firstly, in Pedro judgement, the Court did not apply Jia test not because the applicant was EU national, but because Jia was based on article 4(3)(e) of Directive 68/360:

Pedro: “63.
When in Jia [37] the court referred (as relevant to the present case) to the need for material support having to exist in the state of origin, it did so on the basis of what was said in article 4(3)(e) of Directive 68/360. It said as much in paragraph 38. I do not accept Mr. Blundell's submission to the contrary. What was said in that Article may be contrasted with what is said in Article 8(5)(d) of the Citizens' Directive. That says nothing to suggest that documentary evidence of an Article 2(2)(d) dependency need emanate from the state of origin. That is in specific contrast to "other family member cases," where under Article 8(5)(e) the relevant authority of the country of origin is referred to. The basis of the decision in Jia, insofar as it concerns family members, therefore falls away in a case involving the Citizens' Directive.”

Article 8(5)(d) of the Citizens' Directive is exactly the same as Article 10(2)(d) concerning “family members” that are not nationals of a Member State. In contrast, Article 8(5)(e) and equally Article 10(2)(e) clearly state that there should be a document of dependency from the country of origin for “other family members”. As the Court in Pedro stated, that cannot be an accident of drafting. Considering, that Article 8(5)(d) and Article 10(2)(d) are literally the same, I came to the conclusion that Pedro judgement can be applied to our Solvit case by analogy.
Directive 68/360:
Article 4
3. For the issue of a Residence Permit for a National of a MemberState of the EEC, Member States may require only the production of the following documents;
— by the members of the worker’s family:
(c) the document with which they entered the territory;
(d) a document issued by the competent authority of the State of origin or the State whence they came, proving their relationship;
(e) in the cases referred to in Article 10 (1) and (2) of Regulation (EEC) No 1612/68, a document issued by the competent authority of the State of origin or the State whence they came, testifying that they are dependent on the worker or that they live under his roof in such country.

Secondly, even if UKBA decides not to refer to Pedro judgement, but to apply Jia test, in my opinion, they should reconsider the circumstances.
In Jia case, the ECJ stated that:
“37. In order to determine whether the relatives in the ascending line of the spouse of a Community national are dependent on the latter, the host Member State must assess whether, having regard to their financial and social conditions, they are not in a position to support themselves. The need for material support must exist in the State of origin of those relatives or the State whence they came at the time when they apply to join the Community national.”

In our Solvit case, parents-in-law came to UK after they couldn’t support themselves in India (father retired, they didn’t have any other income or property). This was the reason why their came to UK in the first place. The need for material support existed in the state of origin, that’s why they came to live with their family. The problem might be the time they applied for residence permits. It was in UK, not in the state of origin, but at the time they applied for residence cards, they were dependent on the EEA national (see bank statements). If they had waited for some time in India and during that time had received money from family in UK, they would have been considered dependent in the state of origin. But they didn’t wait and came to UK by Visit-Visa. However, that doesn’t change a fact that they cannot support themselves. UKBA formally considers them as “not dependent” on the EEA national, though factual situation is completely different. In my opinion, such circumstances encourage the EEA national to leave her host state and that is not consistent with the purpose of the Directive.
GOD BLESS
Ikonkar

Zoopla22
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Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:03 am

Re: Extented family member

Post by Zoopla22 » Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:27 pm

Hi gurus

I recieved COA today from home office for my parents saying they are treating my parents case as a extended family member and they have got no right to work.as far as I know throw this forum that my parents are direct family member and they should be allowed to work even though they do not want to work but I still want HO to tray my parents as a direct family member.Guys please advice what to do now?

Zoopla22
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Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:03 am

Re: Extented family member

Post by Zoopla22 » Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:48 pm

Guys please help?

Zoopla22
Newbie
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:03 am

Re: Extented family member

Post by Zoopla22 » Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:13 pm

Any1 to comment from thier busy life?

el patron
Member of Standing
Posts: 335
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:06 pm
Location: Northern Ireland

Re: Extented family member

Post by el patron » Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:10 pm

Zoopla22 wrote:Guys please help?
I would write to remind them to process the application as submitted (and fee paid),i.e as a direct family member in the ascending line, of course if they make a decision refusing the direct family member application they are free to look at a possible extended family member case. Can be good to have your argument out in the open at an early stage.

Zoopla22
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Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:03 am

Re: Extented family member

Post by Zoopla22 » Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:57 pm

Appreciate elpatron I would send them email.

Zoopla22
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Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:03 am

Re: Extented family member

Post by Zoopla22 » Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:30 pm

Hi gurus

I sent a letter to HO regarding my parents saying that they should treat my parents case as a direct family member rather a extented family member.i recieved letter from HO apologising and sent new letter with right to work and stating that they are direct family members.

Elpatron and Obie can you please tell me if that would be good sign in for my parents application please?

el patron
Member of Standing
Posts: 335
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:06 pm
Location: Northern Ireland

Re: Extented family member

Post by el patron » Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:04 pm

Can't see it doing any harm, as you have seen often need to lead them by the nose! They should of course be aware of their own correspondence and its meaning, but again who knows, decision making low standards becoming the norm!

Zoopla22
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Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:03 am

Re: Extented family member

Post by Zoopla22 » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:49 pm

Thanks elpatron.

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