Strategy to solve E.U 1 Issue?

[Carlipao]

well after all of that we (my husband and i)are really tired about the mess of the immigration i think that it doesn't work so good and instead of that sometimes is luck and nothing else. We are waiting sinde 4 months and now is more difficult for us, we dont know how to handle this situacion.

we are looking for the options that we have, so one of them is to get EU family permit in UK and because my husband is working here en Dublin we want to move somewhere so near from here to Newry for example.

On last weekend we went there to see how is the accomodation but we couldn't find anything even in the newspapers. Is there somebady that is already living in Newry? can you give us an advise of the best options to find some place to live? where i can start to search? any sugestion will be very helpfully for us. Thank you very much

[exploited]

I think it's high time all of us who have been shafted by this exploitative rule went on the offensive against the authorities! My wife has been sitting around almost a year only to be told to f@*k off after wasting all this time. It has been an extremely difficult and expensive time for us living in Dublin, which is a very difficult place to live if only one spouse is earning. The application just sat on some lazy idiots desk for months and we didn't even know what was going on. Every time I would try to get in touch, months later I'd get a response, saying that they needed this document or that. In the end after wasting all that time they rejected the application for same old reason that she hadn't resided in another EU country before coming here. So anyone who has gotten married outside the EU while living in Ireland would get shafted by this wholely illogical rule! They could have told us that the DAY they got the application instead of wasting a whole year of a persons life! I have a mind to get together with other couples who have had the same problem and sue these bastards for LOST WAGES and causing distress for almost a year! I think we have a genuine case and can hit them for millions if we get a decent lawyer. Thats the only way these rude time-wasting c*@^s will learn how to treat human beings as HUMAN BEINGS! Probably the LAZIEST AND MOST DISRESPECTFUL GOVERNMENT department of them all!

[CloggieVodka]

No offense meant, as your frustrations are very understandable as we are all in the same situation: one income, not being recognized, and not being treated in a way that we deserve.
However, I would like to remind you that cross posting the same message in various threads is not the way to go about using this forum.

Also, to sue the Irish Government on immigration issues? no chance.. first of all, this is not America where lawsuits are rule contrary to exception, but also, as immigrant affected by the policies of the State, you will not stand a chance in court, given that they have not changed the law, but are merely not abiding by their service levels.

hope you'll find a way to deal with all the frustrations that INIS/DoJ/GNIB cause... if you do, then make some recommendations to us!

[archigabe]

Lets petition the main opposition party (fine gael) to ask some questions in the Dail (Irish Parliament)

1. What is the government (Finna Fail) is doing about Non E.U Spouses of 2000 E.U citizens who are in Ireland legally and who find themselves unable to work/study and E.U citizen families are being pushed into poverty because of the government's illogical decision to require residency in another E.U country.

2.Why are the Department of Trade (DETE) issuing fast track spousal work permits to spouses of third country nationals while refusing the spousal work permit to spouses of E.U citizens? This is treating E.U citizen families even worse than families of third country nationals.

Main Contact :Denis Naughten TD,Immigration spokesman
Dublin 2
Ireland 086 6992080

http://denisnaughten.finegael.ie/repres ... pe/contact

http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:l9eH ... =clnk&cd=3

http://www.metroeireann.com/index.php?o ... &Itemid=50

[archigabe]

Once you have Stamp3, you get the GNIB registration number so it's easy to apply for the re-entry visa within Ireland if someone wants to travel to their spouse's country to apply for a residency permit there.Make sure to check the requirements for residency permits in the E.U spouse's country before you leave.

[Ulla]

Hi all,

I have been reading up on all the posts, a big thank you to everyone for sharing their experiences and helping us to figure out the mess.
So after reading through, we have decided to do the following:

Eu-citizen, not Irish, with non-Eu spouse, not from a visa-requiring country, currently living in another EU country for the last 18months, want to move to ROI in August.
Downloaded the EU1 application form, sent it off with registered mail to Dublin with the following: (all originals)
1. passports
2. birth certificates
3. marriage cert
4. residence permit of non-EU spouse for other EU country
5. Irish health insurance taken out for non-EU spouse
6. passport photos
7. invitation letter from friends where we will be staying on arrival (showing an address)
8. bank statements (showing our savings)

We have supplied everything that we think may show our good intentions. Also havent found a reason to believe one cant apply from outside. It is better to carry on here and wait for the 6 months to pass than to sit frustrated in Ireland. Now the long wait begins...

Any thoughts from anyone?

Cheers

[microlab]

Also havent found a reason to believe one cant apply from outside.

Definitely, it is not possible to apply from abroad.

For Family Members - A Family Member (i.e. spouse, child, dependant relative, other family member requiring the personal care of the EU citizen on health grounds, member of the household of the EU citizen, partner) who is not a national of an EU Member State must apply for a Residence Card which will confirm that he/she is a family member of an EU citizen residing in Ireland.

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP07000025

[microlab]

Downloaded the EU1 application form, sent it off with registered mail to Dublin with the following: (all originals)
1. passports

currently living in another EU country for the last 18months

Which country is that?

[archigabe]

Currently living in another EU country for the last 18months, want to move to ROI in August.Downloaded the EU1 application form, sent it off with registered mail to Dublin with the following: (all originals)

Sending your passport abroad by post is illegal, and DOJ will not return your passport to a foreign address. Also the E.U citizen in Ireland should be exercising 'treaty rights' in Ireland.ie. working,studying,looking for a job.
I wish you had asked some questions here before sending off the application.

[microlab]

Sending your passport abroad by post is illegal,

Archie, in this case probably is but there are different cases where is not.

[archigabe]

I guess she would still be exercising E.U treaty rights if they both moved to Ireland together,but they would both have be physically in Ireland if they want to apply for the E.U spouse residency.

[Ulla]

I have asked DOJ to return my passport to our friends living in Ireland, which will also be our address of residency.

I am sure I have read of one case on here where someone applied from abroad. Unfortunately she never posted again to say how it went. I also wrote to a lawyer in Ireland who assured me it will be no problem and they could handle our case for around 700euro.

When I applied for a residence permit to go to my husband's country, I also applied from outside. Copies of my passport was accepted, I never had to let it go out of my hands. As we all know, Ireland DOJ needs to see the originals. So what you are telling me is,, its illegal to fulfil DOJ requirments.

Anyway, what's done is done. We will have to wait and see what happens now. Will let you know- expecting the worst, hoping for the best.

Cheers

[sms82]

Hi there. I stumbled upon this issue and am a lawyer specialised in EU Law. When I heard about this I was astonished! I know that the Commission is taking infringement proceedings, but that is a rather drawn out process. But the problem with the High Court judgment, from what I can see, is that they were unaware of the "correct" interpretation of the law. The European Court of Justice clarified this issue in the case of C-1/05 Jia, which concerned the requirement for non-EU spouses to have a previous EU residence when applying for a Swedish residence card. The Court of Justice said this was not a requirement of Directive 2004/38, and thus not allowed. If anyone has this issue you can appeal and EVERY court in the EU must give effect the the judgments of the European Court of Justice. If you get a domestic court to rule in your favour it is the quickest way to resolve the issue.

[astartes]

I have to say that it is sad to see people trying to jump through the unreasonable hoops created by the Irish government.

The issue is very simple: Ireland is in direct violation of EU law. Torturing yourself in order to satisfy their attempts to harass you only plays into their hands.

I also heard recently of some people who had received the full residence cards inspite of not having lived in another E.U country...I don't see how that is possible unless they or their lawyers pulled some strings.I am planning on filing a request under the freedom of Information act to find out how many people have recived papers like that.

It's probably based on corruption or connections. Ireland is notorious for being one of the most corrupt countries in the EU.

The ROI have enjoyed so much benefits from the EU Funds and have no moral reason(s) to toy with the EU citizens and their families living in Ireland.

They have plenty of such reasons, one of them being the obvious attempt at exploiting foreigners.
This is simply because Ireland has very little home grown competence that could support a modern economy.
They need to rely on foreigners in order to remain competitive, but they try to reduce them to servitude since
they need to hide the lack of competence of their own "specialists". The basic idea is that foreigners will keep the country running while the Irish will be their bosses --
even though most of those "bosses" are utterly incapable of managing anything. It's not the only nation who imagines that they can get away with that sort of thing.

You are naive if you imagine that this isn't being discussed behind closed doors. The lack of transparency is just a smokescreen devised to hide what is really being done.
Lack of transparency is a prime indicator of corruption.

I remind everyone that Ireland, a country whose GNI per capita is the second largest in the EU (after Luxembourg), and one of the highest in the world, has arranged for itself that it will continue to be a net recipient of EU funds until 2013. Those EU funds originate from the tax being paid by other EU citizens, in particular by the co-nationals of many of those whose EU mobility rights are currently being violated by the Irish government.

http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/1214574422.91/
http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews ... 2675.shtml

Thousands of non-EU spouses in deport threat

This is a clear attempt to frighten foreigners living in Ireland while pandering to Irish chauvinism (which is extremely widespread). A government which is in direct violation of EU law tries to bully and frighten those whose rights it is illegally violating. They are trying to condition you into accepting that you are inferior to an Irish national, and that you should not defend your rights -- of which Irish nationals avail themselves daily in your own country.

It is a well-known strategy of abusers, namely trying to convince the victims to give up fighting by abusing them some more. Take this into account when you assess what you are dealing with.

[astartes]

double

[astartes]

Citizens of all nations living in Ireland need to do the following:

1. Contact their nation's Embassy in Ireland and provide a factual report of how they and their families have been mistreated.

2. Contact their Foreign Ministry and provide a similar report (in the case of the US, contact the Department of State).

3. Contact their national press and raise attention to the issue.

4. If they are EU citizens, contact their nation's EU commissioner.

5. If they are EU citizens, report the issue through SOLVIT

6. If the are EU citizens, report the case to all EU institutions concerned with EU mobility rights, and contact the EU press.

7. If they are EU citizens, raise the issue on all websites provided by the EU for discussion of such matters.

8. Inform all their contacts about the problem, and about any other mistreatment to which they have been subjected. Use your professional and alumni networks to spread awareness of this and other issues. Give special attention to your contacts within government, large business, the media and academia. Also prioritize contacts within international institutions such as the UN, World Bank and IMF.

Both spouses need to act on this issue with their corresponding governments. Please do keep all correspondence and use dated and certified mail. Keep all emails as well. Attach copies of these to your reports.

Ireland is a very small country, which is completely dependent on the generosity of others for its survival. Its continued attempts to play "smart guy" with the EU and the US are likely to lead to its utter economic and political annihilation. As you all know, there is very little substance behind the "Celtic tiger" and behind the propaganda image of that country. The Irish government is bluffing, they are counting on your apathy and fear. It is well-known to be one of the most corrupt and incompetent governments within the European Union.

Many EU governments are sick of the behavior of Ireland. Your complaints will not fall on deaf ears, and the accumulation of such reports provides powerful arguments to your governments. You and your nations do not need Ireland in the least, but Ireland has no chance to survive without your countries' benevolence and handouts.

You have much more power and influence than you realize, as well as a clear-cut case against the Irish government. Do not allow yourself to be mislead by certain propaganda agents of that government, who are being paid to post here in order to confuse, manipulate and discourage you.

They are all terrified that the truth of what they have been doing for the past 15 years will be exposed, now that so many EU insiders are determined to make Ireland pay for its attitude. I can assure you that the EU has not been fooled by Ireland.

[scrudu]

astartes: What exactly is the point in resurrecting tonnes of old posts, merely to rant about the Irish Government and country. Why not simply start 1 NEW post, and shout all you want there. Instead of wasting peoples times by commenting on each and every old post with basically the same rhetoric, i.e. Ireland is crap and you are very unhappy here!

[astartes]

That was the first time I was reading this site, and I felt that I had something to add to those threads. You seem to have something against that, and I would be curious to know what. Please do tell us what your problem is. Are you scared of something ?

I did not add the same message to old posts. That's just something that you made up, or perhaps you have an agenda of attacking all posters who don't compromise on EU legal principles.

Maybe you have a propaganda script saying that the Irish government somehow isn't violating EU law, isn't abusing EU citizens and their families, isn't lying about it and isn't corrupt. Or that Ireland isn't extracting EU funds under false pretenses. I would be glad to see your evidence.

By the way, I do not live in Ireland. And yes, many in the EU are disgusted with and exasperated with Ireland's behavior, and have a very realistic picture of Ireland's true level of development -- unlike so many Irish politicians who seem to be entirely cut off from the realities of their country, while lining their own pockets and imagining that "image" can substitute for reality.

Or perhaps you are one of those who imagine that Ireland can get away with abusing EU citizens, lying to the EU Commission and manipulating EU treaties. Uncomfortable that Europe isn't willing to tolerate that any longer ?

If so, just get out of the EU altogether. Should be rather easy once Lisbon is implemented by the other 26 members.
Really, the EU would be quite glad if Ireland just called it quits.

[Christophe]

Maybe you have a propaganda script...

Actually, if you look through scrudu's posts you will see that this is very far from the truth. She has had her own struggles with the Irish immigration system and has actually given some very helpful to a lot of people in their struggles, based on her own experiences and the things she has learned.

[astartes]

Then why defend what the Irish government is doing ?

Is she somehow in denial of what those people are about ?

The Irish "transposition" of the mobility directive is probably the most abusive lie perpetrated regarding EU mobility. What the Irish government does is blatantly illegal.

Interesting that the Irish EU center seems to work together with the Irish government in attempting to hide the problem from the EU. That is a case of maladministration.

Of course that's only one of the multiple ways in which Ireland lies and has been lying to the EU. I won't even mention the gross industrial corruption, mis-allocation of EU funds, the budget scandals, the disaster of higher education (funded by the EU) etc. Clearly they mistake the EU Commission for a bunch of idiots.

It's not clear what the Commission will do in the end, but obviously some extremely serious measures will be needed in the case of Ireland. After the games they played with Lisbon (so similar to those they played with Niece)-- both perpetrated in collusion with the Irish justice system, it is quite possible that they could be forced out of the Union.

[Christophe]

Then why defend what the Irish government is doing ?

I don't think she was defending the Irish government. She was merely talking about someone ranting... I really don't think you're being fair to her, in fact. But anyway, no matter: I don't want to start an argument particularly, I was just saying...

[Ben]

In fairness astartes, you did just recently register on this forum, then proceeded to post virtually that same rant on so many threads (not that I necessarily disagree with the content).

The majority of us here are suffering or have suffered the mistreatment of the DoJ, so we know what you're saying is true. But as scrudu said, why not just start one new thread and rant, rather than reply in a similar way to so many existing threads?

[scrudu]

asartes: I wish you had actually read my comment before you started off another rant, filled with conspiracy theories about my agenda. If you simply checked up on my previous posts, you could very easily find out more information about my situation and why I post on these boards. Unfortunately for you, my "agenda" is much more mundane rather than the fantastical ideas you have thought up yourself! That said, they were quite humourous to read

asartes: ... or perhaps you have an agenda of attacking all posters who don't compromise on EU legal principles. Maybe you have a propaganda script saying that the Irish government somehow isn't violating EU law, isn't abusing EU citizens and their families, isn't lying about it and isn't corrupt. Or that Ireland isn't extracting EU funds under false pretenses. I would be glad to see your evidence.

With your last two posts, you have simply proven my point. Instead of actually adding anything of value to the current topic "Strategy to solve E.U 1 Issue?", you've launched off on an angry rant again. I am not opposed to anyone critising the DoJ/INIS, but I felt the number of posts (13 on Jul 13th) which mostly merely reiterated similar points against the Irish Government, Irish membership of the EU etc. were unnecessary. I still stand by my suggestion that if you wish to simply complain broadly about Ireland/Irish Gov/Irish membership of the EU/Irish Immigration policy, then simply start a new post and put all your energy into that one. I suggest a title of "Pissed off European suggests Ireland be forced out of EU for daring to vote no to Lisbon".

When you add to a post all those people who have subscribed to that post receive emails notifying them that the post has been updated, prompting those interested to read it. It was rather tedious to go to each post and find similar rhetoric on each.

[Ben]

... It was rather tedious to go to each post and find similar rhetoric on each.

I couldn't agree more.

That said, welcome to the forum, astartes. You've certainly made an introduction! Hope you stay. We're all singing the same tune, but calm down a bit, yeh? You can make friends with like-minded people here, but don't give yourself a hernia mate!

[astartes]

Well what I can say to all of you is the following.

Trying to make excuses for what Ireland is doing to you only increases your chances to be further victimized. If you are an immigrant from a poor country, or if this is the first time you deal with immigration issues, you might have been conditioned to believe that if you just jump through enough hoops created by some government then you'll be OK.

That is not what you should be doing in this case. EU law states very clearly that the spouse of a EU citizen has an immediate right to reside and work in the EU country where her/his spouse choses to reside. Any "conditions" invented to deny that right are illegal.

As I said somewhere else, it is sad to see that so many people who are being victimized by the Irish DoJ seem to be ready and willing to put up with such victimization. If you have the mentality of a slave, then you should not be surprised when you are treated like one.

Nothing I said is a "rant", but correctly expresses the way in which Ireland's behavior is perceived by a large number of EU insiders. Some of you seem to have been greatly affected by the propaganda strategy of the Irish government, part of which consists in the creation of a deliberate wall of silence intended to hide the problems of that country.

I won't be posting further on this site, but I want to repeat my advice, to all EU citizens who care about their rights, that they proceed as I suggested above. Do this not only for yourself, but also in order to help the EU Commission establish the correct dignity of the status of EU citizen.

Do not play into the hands of those who want to violate your rights.

Regarding the status of Ireland, it is indeed quite possible that it will end up being marginalized in the EU or even forced out if continues playing games (that involves much more serious issues than its deliberately faulty transposition of EU directives). It is quite clear that many people here do not understand the seriousness of Ireland's current position.

For your information, I work for the EU. Also for your information, I happen to know who scrudu is. Nice try, anyway.