UK Passport for Child Born and Living Abroad

[Feb4]

I need help.

I am British, living in the UK. My wife is a Nigerian and she gave birth to our son in Nigeria last year.
She applied for a spouse visa and has got it; She will be here in UK on 5 March 2015.

My son is British by descent since at the time of his birth I was already a British citizen.
If we apply for a British passport for my son in Nigeria, the process takes at least 12 weeks to complete(too long).

However, if he is in the UK and apply for a British passport, it takes about 3 weeks.

In that case, can I apply for a child visitor for my son to accompany his mother on 5 March, and then apply for a British passport for him whilst here in the UK?

Thanks.

[akhurshid]

I need help.

I am British, living in the UK. My wife is a Nigerian and she gave birth to our son in Nigeria last year.
She applied for a spouse visa and has got it; She will be here in UK on 5 March 2015.

My son is British by descent since at the time of his birth I was already a British citizen.
If we apply for a British passport for my son in Nigeria, the process takes at least 12 weeks to complete(too long).

However, if he is in the UK and apply for a British passport, it takes about 3 weeks.

In that case, can I apply for a child visitor for my son to accompany his mother on 5 March, and then apply for a British passport for him whilst here in the UK?

Thanks.

You can apply for COE/ROA instead to bring child to UK then apply for passport from here.

[Feb4]

Many thanks, akhurshid.

That's a viable way to go. It's good to know we have options.

However, it is more expensive and the processing times are no shorter than applying for a child visitor visa for my son.
The goal is to get him in the UK and apply for his British passport from inside the UK. So, we are leaning towards a child visitor visa.

Do you think a certificate of entitlement is a better way to go? If so, can you suggest why?

Thanks again.

[akhurshid]

Many thanks, akhurshid.

That's a viable way to go. It's good to know we have options.

However, it is more expensive and the processing times are no shorter than applying for a child visitor visa for my son.
The goal is to get him in the UK and apply for his British passport from inside the UK. So, we are leaning towards a child visitor visa.

Do you think a certificate of entitlement is a better way to go? If so, can you suggest why?

Thanks again.

All British citizens have right of abode where as visit visa application has requirements which need to be met and if person dealing with application is not satisfied, they might refuse the application whereas ROA is entitlement.
That is the only thing I can think of. I don't know anything about fees either.

[vinny]

If they know that the child is British, then they should refuse a visa application.

[akhurshid]

If they know that the child is British, then they should refuse a visa application.

Cheers Vinny, I didn't know that.

[Feb4]

All British citizens have right of abode where as visit visa application has requirements which need to be met and if person dealing with application is not satisfied, they might refuse the application whereas ROA is entitlement.
That is the only thing I can think of. I don't know anything about fees either.

Thank you very much. A very good advice, akhurshid.

[Feb4]

A big eye opener for me

refuse a visa application.

Thanks, Vinny. You've been helpful to me over many years.

[Feb4]

Problem, gurus please help.

We submitted an application for a certificate of entitlement with all the required supporting documents. We got this email from them UK High Commission:

"We would like to inform you that we are unable to issue a right of Abode Certificate as the Visa Section does not have the authority to determine that your child is a British Citizen."

Is this normal? They recommend that we instead apply for a British passport for our son.

Please help, we are going crazy and don't know what to do.

[vinny]

It's not normal.

If they do not have the authority to determine that someone is British, then they also would be unable to issue partner/family visas to non-British family members of a British citizen; by the same token, they also wouldn't have the authority to determine that the sponsor is British.

The British Nationality Act is the authority to determine that someone is a British citizen.

[Feb4]

Thank you again Vinny.

I have written to them quoting section 2(1)(a) of the 1981 British Nationality Act and the basis for an application for a certificate of entitlement from the 2006 Immigration Regulations.

Before, they tried to tell me that I should register my son as a British citizen before I could apply for a right of abode certificate. Interestingly, they referred me to form MN1. I quoted back to them that the full guidance for form MN1 under "automatic acquisition of British citizenship" on page 7 makes clear that my son, a British citizen by descent, is automatically a British citizen and does not need to register as a British national. They have not got back to me since.

I am waiting for their response and I will let you know.

[vinny]

If you are British otherwise than by descent at the time of child's birth, then you are correct.

[Feb4]

If you are British otherwise than by descent at the time of child's birth, then you are correct.

Yes, I was. I naturalised.

They've written back to me saying that our application for a COE will be processed as if we are applying for a British passport. They've sent us a long list of documents such as photos of parents and child together, father's passport stamps, mother's Nigerian passport, wedding photos of parents, antenatal/postnatal receipts, e.t.c.

Luckily, we can provide all these documents and even more to them immediately. We are providing them.
However, I can't help thinking they are going way beyond what has been stated as required documents for a COE application. The required documents from the supporting guide for a COE application and the 2006 Regulations are child's birth certificate, parent naturalisation certificate, parents' marriage certificate (these we've already provided).

Are they right to require these further documents or to treat a COE application as if it were an application for a British passport?

[vinny]

I think it's reasonable to expect them to process the application as if it was a first child British passport application. Does the passport application require the same, compared with what they are requesting?

[Feb4]

I think it's reasonable to expect them to process the application as if it was a first child British passport application. Does the passport application require the same, compared with what they are requesting?

Yes, the passport application requires roughly the same. However, this is not uniform across countries. I think for countries they consider high-fraud areas, the requirements are more involving than for low-fraud areas. For example, an American birth certificate would be more trusted by them than a Nigerian one; in this case, the requirements are more involving if applying with a Nigerian birth certificate.

This is understandable.

[gre.bm691]

Hi Feb4

any update on your application?

I am in a similar situation. I am planning to get the RoA rather than the passport for my child who will be (touch wood) born abroad.

I went to see a solicitor today regarding the same, and its no surprise that not many UK based solicitors dont have a lot of information about the RoA option.

HOWEVER!, I was very surprised when the solicitor (reputed one) suggested that I could apply for the passport from within the UK while the child is abroad. He gave me a list of docs to provide him (a pretty standard one) and he said that I could apply from here! He insisted that he did this for a client recently and passport was available within 3-4weeks!

Experts, can you please advice on this? Is this really possible?

[vinkeke]

Hi gre.bm691,

I am in a similar situation. I am a naturalised british citizen. My son was born in nigeria in may 2015. I want to apply for a passport for him using the "applying for a passport from outside the uk" route.
But you mentioned about making the application from here. Is that possible and please can you let me have the details for the solicity so that i can contact him with the aim of letting him handle my application too.

Thanks

[gre.bm691]

I would love to help but unfortunately, all my research has been very murky.

I will PM you the solicitor's name but I am not going through them. I dont understand why should I pay someone to do something that is (as per the solicitor) straight forward!

If you look at the passport application in the UK, nowhere does it mention that the applicant has to be within the country. Especially for infants as it will be you attending the interview, if required.

I hope some of the seniors can cast their eyes over this topic.

PS. In my case, I have decided to take the plunge. Either go for the biritsh passport from here or apply for RoA from India.

[secret.simon]

vinkeke may not be able to access PMs. PMs can only be used after the person has posted atleast 10 times on the forums.

If your wife is Indian and giving birth in India, then the child can get an Indian passport and a CoE-RoA. Be aware that threads on these forums suggest that staff at VFS India and the British High Commission are not aware of the CoE-RoA option for children of naturalised British citizens and may incorrectly decline it.

The typical time required for a CoE-RoA abroad has been reported on these forums as between six and sixteen weeks.

If you look at the passport application in the UK, nowhere does it mention that the applicant has to be within the country. Especially for infants as it will be you attending the interview, if required.

Remember that the referees who sign the form must know the applicant, who in this case is the child, not the parents. There may be a problem if the child is in India, but the referee is in the UK and has not met the child.

[vinkeke]

Hi gre.bm691

Thanks for your prompt reply.

Agreed that nowhere does passport application in the uk require that the applicant to be within the uk. And the form for those applying from outside and from within are basically the same.

Thats a good point but where are you going to use as the applicants current? Here in the uk or there in india? And considering that in the guidance note on how to fill the passport application, it was stated and i quote "we may check you live at the address you give. if you dont, it may delay your application unless you explain the circumstances in section 8 of the application form". How will you explain that in the application? Continuing and i quote "we will not normally return your passport to an address that is different from your current address. if you want it delivered to a different address, please explain why you want us to do this and give the other address in section 8".

Thanks.

[vinkeke]

Hi gre.bm691,

Am not sure if we can make application from here for a child who is not here. I tried to do online and the first question was where do the applicant reside. If you imput any country other than uk, you get this message: "This service is not available in the country you're applying from. We are sorry but you cannot use the online passport application service from the country or territory you are applying from. Please see www.gov.uk/overseas-passportsOpens new window for information on how to apply from the country or territory you are in".

And the following was what i read from the guidance notes for paper/postal application:

I live abroad. How do I apply?
If you‘re outside the UK you apply in a different way. Visit www.gov.uk/overseas-passports for advice on how to apply. Do not use the form that came with these guidance notes unless you are visiting the UK and plan to replace your passport while you are here.

I live abroad but am visiting the UK. Can apply during my visit?
Yes but you need a UK address we can deliver your new passport to. Visit www.gov.uk/passport-application-while-visiting-uk for advice on how to apply.

So i think the only option is to apply for CoE RoA or passport from outside the uk.

Or you can still give me the solicitors name and number let me get more info on how he plans to side step these obstacles.

Thanks

[vinkeke]

Hi gre.bm691,

I got mail saying u sent me a private message. I suspect it's d details of d solicitor. But I am not allowed to see ptivate messages because I haven't been using d forum for long.

Thanks

[gre.bm691]

Like secret Simon mentioned, I believe you need to have 10posts I believe.

I have exactly the same concerns as you have. Like secret.simon mentioned, RoA is a good backup to have. Worst case scenario would be the passport application is refused and we apply for RoA from India.

[vinkeke]

gre.bm691,

passport applicaion will not be refused as long as you provide the correct documentation. but the only problem is the time it takes to come out. it can take like several months.

[TheOmen]

Was there ever a definite answer to this question?

I am planning on flying to the UK to attend a "child's first passport" appointment in the next few weeks, but my child will remain abroad whilst I do it.

Will the application likely be refused? I have heard of other people doing this, but I can't see how when the form asks you to show how you entered the UK...?