Will a pregnancy help?

[frances2]

Hello everybody. I hope I'll be able to get some help with my very complicated problem.... Here goes....

I am in a relationship with a Jamaican man whom I met 4 years ago whilst he was here in the UK.
He returned to Jamaica three years ago Oct 2004 (he was NOT deported, left of his own volition, but had overstayed). He was married whilst in England (not to me), but to an English ex girlfriend who offered to marry him to help him with his reapplication for a UK spouse visa when he returned to Jamaica.
He applied for a spouse visa on three occassions and each one was turned down for a number of reasons - mainly doubts over the wife's financial stablity and doubts over the validity of the relationship.

Meanwhile I have made several trips to visit him, and we have a strong relationship and plenty of evidence to back this up. He is now persuing a divorce, which his wife is sorting here in England.

Following my most recent visit, I now am pregnant - planned. Baby should be due around May.

I'm going to seek legal advice, but stumbled across this site and wondered if anyone could help me here. What I want to know is what is the best way of getting him here at least for the birth of the baby.

[Wanderer]

Hello everybody. I hope I'll be able to get some help with my very complicated problem.... Here goes....

I am in a relationship with a Jamaican man whom I met 4 years ago whilst he was here in the UK.
He returned to Jamaica three years ago Oct 2004 (he was deported, left of his own volition, but had overstayed). He was married whilst in England (not to me), but to an English ex girlfriend who offered to marry him to help him with his reapplication for a UK spouse visa when he returned to Jamaica.
He applied for a spouse visa on three occassions and each one was turned down for a number of reasons - mainly doubts over the wife's financial stablity and doubts over the validity of the relationship.

Meanwhile I have made several trips to visit him, and we have a strong relationship and plenty of evidence to back this up. He is now persuing a divorce, which his wife is sorting here in England.

Following my most recent visit, I now am pregnant - planned. Baby should be due around May.

I'm going to seek legal advice, but stumbled across this site and wondered if anyone could help me here. What I want to know is what is the best way of getting him here at least for the birth of the baby.

Being pregnant won't make any difference. Also I feel it only fair to say Jamaica is just about the hardest place to get a visa from, I think the last figures show roughly 1000 refusals out of 1500.

Focus on the 500 that were successful, make your case as watertight as possible, hopefully successful applicants will post here.

[frances2]

Thanks
I'd heard Kingston was one of the toughest places from which to get a visa.
Just to add.... My own position makes me an excellent candidate as a sponsor... financially and proffessionally, so it's just a case of knowing what's the best way of going about things....
Shame the pregnancy makes no difference, are compassionate grounds not taken into account?

[Wanderer]

Thanks
I'd heard Kingston was one of the toughest places from which to get a visa.
Just to add.... My own position makes me an excellent candidate as a sponsor... financially and proffessionally, so it's just a case of knowing what's the best way of going about things....
Shame the pregnancy makes no difference, are compassionate grounds not taken into account?

Fraid not, or everyone would be getting preggers to get a better change of a visa so u can understand it.

I can only suggest u have a good read here, I'm sure I've seen more than a few success stories from Kingston so take heart, read the HO guidance notes and make sure you have a cast iron case.

There's only one way to go about it; basically prove to the ECO that;

1. ur future marriage is genuine

2. U wont need public funds

3. U wont be homeless - ie proof of accommodation.

And u need PROOF, remember that, ECO won't accept ur word. So go over the top with it all and remember all the ECO is really concerned with is the relationship genuine and would the relationship cost the Gov money in benefits etc.....

Answer those issues and u should be ok.

[frances2]

I can definately do that. I earn stacks of cash, own my own home and have been to Jamaica about 8 times in the last three years. Have phone records, pictures etc etc

My concern is his previous applications which not surprisingly were turned down. Obviously they weren't with me, and I will make sure our case is water tight.... With the help of much advice and a specialist solicitor...

However... We can't marry untill his divorce comes through, then when it does come through I don't think that will gives us time to get the application processed. What I was wondering was whether it's worth applying for a visitors visa in the short term so at least he'll be here for the birth....

[Wanderer]

I can definately do that. I earn stacks of cash, own my own home and have been to Jamaica about 8 times in the last three years. Have phone records, pictures etc etc

My concern is his previous applications which not surprisingly were turned down. Obviously they weren't with me, and I will make sure our case is water tight.... With the help of much advice and a specialist solicitor...

However... We can't marry untill his divorce comes through, then when it does come through I don't think that will gives us time to get the application processed. What I was wondering was whether it's worth applying for a visitors visa in the short term so at least he'll be here for the birth....

I think a VV would be refused give either his relationship with u (ECO will assume he intends to settle on it) or independent of that, his deportation.

Did you live together? I've u've a two years provable period of living together you can apply for Unmarried Partner Visa.

[frances2]

Thanks for your interest.

No we never lived together in the UK. We just dated for about 12 months. But he wasn't deported, he left of his own free will. thinking he'd just get back easy peasy because he was married. Bit numb really, but things are easy in retrospect.

So you think applying for a VV so he'll be here for the birth and a bit after is a bit of a none starter. I thought may be if we can convince them he'll go back, which he definately will, so we can get things sorted legitamately ie married then a spouse visa application. More than anything we want to live a normal life, it's just convincing the ECO (is that right?), and inorder to do that he'd have to go back after his VV was up so we can apply properly.

Any ideas how we get that across?

[Wanderer]

Thanks for your interest.

No we never lived together in the UK. We just dated for about 12 months. But he wasn't deported, he left of his own free will. thinking he'd just get back easy peasy because he was married. Bit numb really, but things are easy in retrospect.

So you think applying for a VV so he'll be here for the birth and a bit after is a bit of a none starter. I thought may be if we can convince them he'll go back, which he definately will, so we can get things sorted legitamately ie married then a spouse visa application. More than anything we want to live a normal life, it's just convincing the ECO (is that right?), and inorder to do that he'd have to go back after his VV was up so we can apply properly.

Any ideas how we get that across?

I don't think u can really. UK gov wants him here on the right visa, we all know it's stupid, but the tenet is a tourist visa is for touring, nothing else. Same as a Student visa is for studying, so u cant say bring ur gf/bf on a study visa and admit really it's cos ur together. Badly put, hope u get the picture.

The perceived wisdom is tho that if ur in the process of going thru the fiance/spouse visa route, a VV is a no-no cos it seems like ur short-cutting the system and ur spouse/fiancee will be tempted to overstay...

I think ur only way is for him to apply without u in the picture, but obviously that's gonna be tough. Catch 22. If he wasn't deported (I must have misread that!) then he's got the same chance as any other for a VV, provided there's no hint of a relationship with u in the app.

Worth a try? I dunno.

Reread, u missed 'nt from 'was deported'!!

Yes, worth a try for a VV but not to visit the mother of his child, u'd have to come up with some creative story here...

[frances2]

Oh dear.... It's not what I want to hear, but it's better than going round the houses and getting nowhere. I get what you say about type of visa and reasons for these. It's not looking good for things to be sorted in time, namely divorce gone through, then marriage. The application I can get done but it's the time they take in the British High Commission, last estimate was 6 months.

This is a disaster.

[avjones]

You can always try to apply for a VV, but I would rate your chances as very, very low. You've got previous overstaying, previous unsuccessful attempts to enter as a spouse with another woman, incentive to stay because of the baby - I bet the ECO would say this has overstaying written all over it, sorry.

[frances2]

You can always try to apply for a VV, but I would rate your chances as very, very low. You've got previous overstaying, previous unsuccessful attempts to enter as a spouse with another woman, incentive to stay because of the baby - I bet the ECO would say this has overstaying written all over it, sorry.

Thank you Amanda, I value your opinion, it looks like a VV is a none starter, but I suppose there may be nothing to lose whilst waiting for his divorce to go through.
I'm going to see a solicitor this week, I'm keen I know as much as possible so that we're speaking the same langauge, and also I'm prepared for the advice she will give.
Do you think applications prepared by solicitors fare better than those that are not?

[frances2]

What do you think about applying for a fiance visa - can we - whilst his divorce is going through. As I outlined earlier we can present a good case in terms of proof of relationship and my financial position. The worst that can happen is that it's refused, then of course we would appeal - meanwhile we could marry. At appeal I'm fortunate that I can hire a barrister/solicitor and because everything is genuine, I have a good feeling that we would win!

Is this a good idea. As you can tell I'm keen to get any kind of ball rolling on this!

Thank you again in anticipation.

[avjones]

I think it would be worth professional help on this one.

It's going to be tough - the ECOs in Jamaica are suspicious anyway. Please don't take this the wrong way, it's not my personal comment on your situation, but something you need to be prepared for.

This could look like a man who will try anything to get into the UK - he's already overstayed and contracted a sham marriage. So your application must be watertight, both initially and on appeal, so you can prove your relationship is genuine.

Best of luck with the application, and with the baby!

[VictoriaS]

I agree with Amanda - this is going to be very difficult.

The main problem, as far as I can see, is that you are going to be producing evidence to say that you and he have been in a relationship for the last three years, buit the ECO will have ion their records 'evidence' submitted by him to say that he has been in a relationship with, and married to, someone else.

I am afraid that they are unlikely to believe his intentions, and as has already been said Jamaica is very difficult anyway. I would brace yourself for this one going to court.

Victoria

[frances2]

Up date....
I went to see a specialist immigration solicitor, this was time and money well spent. We went through previous refusals of his marriage applications and the current situation as is.
She felt that unless we waited for the divorce and applied for a fiance visa the only option we had was a visitor visa, detailing our "friendship" which has developed into a relationship, and a planned pregnancy - which it is - to request a visit visa to be here for the birth, explaining that this is the only visa we can apply for and detailing our long term plans to marry so that we can apply for a settlement visa, all of which is reliant on him returning. Because the main block, as mentioned before, will be ECO believing he will not overstay. Which her wont, we want to live a normal life and be able to travel etc... We/I need to come up with proof that this is the case.
I'm well aware that it still may be refused, but at least our relationship and the pregnancy will be on record. This will only help future applications.

What a ridiculous nightmare. Why can't life be simple?

[sally12345]

Up date....
I went to see a specialist immigration solicitor, this was time and money well spent. We went through previous refusals of his marriage applications and the current situation as is.
She felt that unless we waited for the divorce and applied for a fiance visa the only option we had was a visitor visa, detailing our "friendship" which has developed into a relationship, and a planned pregnancy - which it is - to request a visit visa to be here for the birth, explaining that this is the only visa we can apply for and detailing our long term plans to marry so that we can apply for a settlement visa, all of which is reliant on him returning. Because the main block, as mentioned before, will be ECO believing he will not overstay. Which her wont, we want to live a normal life and be able to travel etc... We/I need to come up with proof that this is the case.
I'm well aware that it still may be refused, but at least our relationship and the pregnancy will be on record. This will only help future applications.

What a ridiculous nightmare. Why can't life be simple?

Hiya, Hun I am in the same postion as you although our cases may seem complex there is hope! this borad is very good as you can get a lot of help here.

Can I ask what Lawyer did you go and see? it;s just that London lawyers are so pricey! and your lawyer seemed like she gave you hope which is a good thing.
Keep faith and pray god see's all hun:))

[sally12345]

Up date....
I went to see a specialist immigration solicitor, this was time and money well spent. We went through previous refusals of his marriage applications and the current situation as is.
She felt that unless we waited for the divorce and applied for a fiance visa the only option we had was a visitor visa, detailing our "friendship" which has developed into a relationship, and a planned pregnancy - which it is - to request a visit visa to be here for the birth, explaining that this is the only visa we can apply for and detailing our long term plans to marry so that we can apply for a settlement visa, all of which is reliant on him returning. Because the main block, as mentioned before, will be ECO believing he will not overstay. Which her wont, we want to live a normal life and be able to travel etc... We/I need to come up with proof that this is the case.
I'm well aware that it still may be refused, but at least our relationship and the pregnancy will be on record. This will only help future applications.

What a ridiculous nightmare. Why can't life be simple?

Hiya, Hun I am in the same postion as you although our cases may seem complex there is hope! this borad is very good as you can get a lot of help here.

Can I ask what Lawyer did you go and see? it;s just that London lawyers are so pricey! and your lawyer seemed like she gave you hope which is a good thing.
Keep faith and pray god see's all hun:))

Please excuse the mistakes I have reading and Writing problems!

[frances2]

My solicitor was in Manchester, she was very good, but NOT cheap, but I felt like I got value for money. I wouldn't post her details on the internet - I would like advice from mods regards passing on details of a solicitor.

She did give me hope, but was very realistic that are chances are poor and very reliant on my ability to put our case very strongly. I plan to do both personal statements and email them to her, and she'll advice accordingly. The key is to be totally honest and speak from the heart as far as I can see. Plus my own credibilty due to my proffession should rate high. But I need to help my partner with his, he's a good man - just been ill advised - and made mistakes in the past with his previous applications. Unfortunately the law does not allow for ignorance as an excuse....

[sally12345]

My solicitor was in Manchester, she was very good, but NOT cheap, but I felt like I got value for money. I wouldn't post her details on the internet - I would like advice from mods regards passing on details of a solicitor.

She did give me hope, but was very realistic that are chances are poor and very reliant on my ability to put our case very strongly. I plan to do both personal statements and email them to her, and she'll advice accordingly. The key is to be totally honest and speak from the heart as far as I can see. Plus my own credibilty due to my proffession should rate high. But I need to help my partner with his, he's a good man - just been ill advised - and made mistakes in the past with his previous applications. Unfortunately the law does not allow for ignorance as an excuse....

I understand that you dont want to leave details thats fine! I do have a few people in mind it's just knowing who to trust? what do you do work wise? as this seems like it could help your case the fact that you have a good job and own your own home. Is a good thing? I wish you well I am, in the smae boat. Just have faith if you love your man like you say you do then you will fight untill the end! dont give up hun

[avjones]

I'm glad you've seen a good solicitor and taken professional advice.

Best of luck with the VV application - I agree with your solicitor that it's a tough one, so make it a cracking application.

I can't quite see a false and fraudulent marriage as "ignorance" myself, and I fear the ECO will take a similar view. You need a very strong statement from both you and your partner. On a visa, it's his intentions which are the most important.

[OL7MAX]

frances2 and sally12345, you do realise you can exchange solicitors' details via PM?

Anyway, with respect the problem at hand: the man lied, violated visa conditions, entered into a sham marriage and, generally, seems to have no problem with duping his way. This board is not about giving you relationship advice so I won't comment on "basis for trust" but to an ECO he looks dodgy, dodgy, dodgy. There may be circumstances that he could use in his defence but I can't see mitigating circumstances for wilful default being swallowed up by the ECO.

your lawyer seemed like she gave you hope

If hope swings a client into a net then why wouldn't hope be handed out in big doses by every lawyer going? And it is. It's also usually followed by a "I don't guarantee anything" just as a CYA. There is no substitute for doing a lot of research yourself and using your solicitor's advice as only one input into your understanding and decision/s. In my experience a lot of solicitors specialising in immigration matters can help you less than many lay people on this board.

On a different note you may want to explore your boyfriend applying for stay in an EC country other than the UK.

[frances2]

frances2 and sally12345, you do realise you can exchange solicitors' details via PM?

Anyway, with respect the problem at hand: the man lied, violated visa conditions, entered into a sham marriage and, generally, seems to have no problem with duping his way. This board is not about giving you relationship advice so I won't comment on "basis for trust" but to an ECO he looks dodgy, dodgy, dodgy. There may be circumstances that he could use in his defence but I can't see mitigating circumstances for wilful default being swallowed up by the ECO.

your lawyer seemed like she gave you hope

If hope swings a client into a net then why wouldn't hope be handed out in big doses by every lawyer going? And it is. It's also usually followed by a "I don't guarantee anything" just as a CYA. There is no substitute for doing a lot of research yourself and using your solicitor's advice as only one input into your understanding and decision/s. In my experience a lot of solicitors specialising in immigration matters can help you less than many lay people on this board.

On a different note you may want to explore your boyfriend applying for stay in an EC country other than the UK.

Thank you for your comments.
The situation I'm in is not going to change unless I atleast try. I well aware of the problems involved. My only other alternative is just to walk away. My solicitor suggested ways I might help my self and my partner. He may to you and others look dodgy, but he is not. And I do not appreciate your back handed comment about my choice of partner. You have only the brief outline I have given here.
As to exploring another EC country neither of us speaks any other languages, and believe it or not I actually believe that I will get him to England. Particularly at appeal.

[avjones]

Very best of luck, Frances - I think you are aware of the difficulties you may face, and that will help you put in the strongest possible application.

Please do post so that we know how you are getting on!

[OL7MAX]

He may to you and others look dodgy, but he is not. And I do not appreciate ..

Obviously a sore issue then. As I pointed out, it's the ECO you need to convince so all the best with that.

BTW, I know one or two people in Ireland who speak English. And there's no harm in learning French or Spanish. But I'm sure it won't come to that. Good luck. I'll watch out for updates to this thread.

[VictoriaS]

Not saying that this is what your solicitor is doing, but I do know of many cases where a legal representative says that an application is likely to be successful in order to get the fees, even if the case really has little merit. Do be careful of parting with a lot of money for nothing.

For what it is worth, I would not waste money on a visit visa application, which is almost certainly going to fail, and will have no right of appeal (unless you have had the baby by then).

Good luck.

Victoria