Form AN Question

[rakeysh.patel]

All,

In recent past, I have been helped tremendously by forum members and here's hoping another round of success. My OH & I are due to apply for Naturalisation at local NCS on 3rd March, appointment already scheduled and paid for. I have most of my ducks in row but have few loose ends on the form and would appreciate if someone can please shed some light.

1. Referee Details

This seems to be doing my heading atmo as I keep getting different word of advice from those who have recently applied and to make matters worse, conflicting info from HO when phoned.

I am trying to understand who can sign my Referee. My first referee is a friend who I have known for 7 years and is ACCA qualified. He does not own a practice as he is employed by a multinational and is not a british citizen as yet (holds ILR). My second referee is a British citizen who knows my OH and myself for 5 years or so and is a Teacher in state school.

Are these valid referees? Both these referees know each other as friends, is this a okay?


2. Documents

Filled form, LIUK Pass Certificate, English Test Certificate (though I have my degree taught in English, I sat in the exam) - for both of us. I will also be carrying with me - Marriage Certificate, joint Mortgage statement (one annual one issued in Oct 2014 and will request most recent tomorrow), Utility bill under individual names.

Am I missing anything? Please advise.

For the time being, this is all I am confused about and would appreciate someone taking a min to clarify.

Ta

[milan69]

1. Your referees are fine.
2. You need your ILR/PR and passports as well.

Joint Mortgage statement & Utility bill is not necessary.
I suggest you use NCS.

[rakeysh.patel]

1. Your referees are fine.
2. You need your ILR/PR and passports as well.

Joint Mortgage statement & Utility bill is not necessary.
I suggest you use NCS.

Thanks Milan, appreciate it. I asked my friend to sign for it and he was bit reluctant since he is not a practicing accountant. If this is the case, can I have it signed by someone who works with me? I have few American nationals in the office well as some british and European. IS this okay? What do HO mean by professional standing? Is there a list of qualification that can vouch as a referee?

I will have the passport and biometric cards. I was told I had to carry proof of residence?

Ta

[lake1]

Your friend doesn't have to be a practice accoutant, he is an accountant registered with an accounting body - ACCA in this case - which is good enough.

There is a list of who can be a referee, try checking the sticked top about FAO.

[milan69]

As lake1 said your friend needs to be registered account. Your friend who is a teacher can also be your first referee.\You don't have to prove your residence as it is assumed that you are telling the truth. Should HO want further proof they will ask for it.
If you use NCS they will copy your documents and return originals to you.

[rakeysh.patel]

Hello, thanks for your help so far.

I am going to go ahead with two of my other friends. They are both teachers. Question is they are are relative (real brothers) and living at the same address. Is this okay?

And finally - I had 3 points on my license in d camber of 2008, for slowing down on central reservation on M25 (I had missed the exit). Do I need to mention this? If so, what section this go under please? I didn't see any reference for such declaration but I hear I need to be forthcoming about it.

Thank you all once again - R

[Manka10]

Dude, have you read the form before posting or selecting your referees?

read 5.1, it clearly states the 2 referees should not be related to each other.

Also read 3.7, you have to declare all road traffic offences regardless of when they happened.

[rakeysh.patel]

3.7 reads - "Please give details below for each criminal conviction, starting with the most recent one. If you have received more than two convictions, please photocopy this page and enclose it with this form.
Note: We will carry out criminal record checks on all applicants. You must give details of all criminal convictions. This includes road traffic offences (including all drink-driving offences).
Fixed Penalty Notices (such as speeding or parking tickets) do not form part of a person’s criminal record and will not be considered in the caseworker’s assessment of character unless:
• the person has failed to pay and there were criminal proceedings as a result; or
• the person has received numerous fixed penalty notices."

I had FPN, paid fine and had 3 points on license. Does this account for a criminal offence??

[rakeysh.patel]

Dude, have you read the form before posting or selecting your referees?

read 5.1, it clearly states the 2 referees should not be related to each other.

Also read 3.7, you have to declare all road traffic offences regardless of when they happened.

My bad, I had not read the specifics about two referees shouldn't be relative. Thanks for pointing out!

[Manka10]

FPN means you broke the law and it means a criminal offence although traffic offences can be spent after a few years but the form is clearly asking to declare all traffic offences and not just those which happened in the recent past or are still unspent, in which case it will be a refusal for 3 years

[milan69]

One FPN within last 12 months will not effect application unless it's serious.

[rakeysh.patel]

One FPN within last 12 months will not effect application unless it's serious.

Thanks Milan. Mine was in 2008!!

My google search has found following extract:

Fixed Penalty Notices

A fixed penalty notice (FPN), penalty charge notice (PCN) or penalty notices for disorder (PND) are a way of the criminal justice system disposing of fairly minor offences without the need for a person to attend court. Receiving one does not form part of a person‟s criminal record as there is no admission of guilt.

In determining whether an applicant meets the "good character" requirement, caseworkers should not normally take into account fixed penalty notices, unless the applicant has received numerous fixed penalty notices in the last 12 months, and this would suggest a pattern of behaviour that calls into question their character. Equally, a fixed penalty notice would not be disregarded if there were criminal proceedings for failure to pay and his led to a more serious penalty as a result. If an application is refused on the basis of either of these reasons, the applicant should be advised that he or she can reapply at a time when he or she does not have more than one fixed penalty notice in the twelve month period before making an application.

Caseworkers should note that if a fixed penalty notice or fiscal fine has been referred to a court due to the non-payment of the fine or if the notice has been challenged by the applicant and subsequently upheld by the court then this is treated as a conviction for the purposes of both the criminality threshold periods (for applications made on or after 13 December 2012) and the 1974 Act (as amended) or Rehabilitation of Offenders (N. Ireland) Order 1978 (for applications made on or before 12 December 2012) and will attract a rehabilitation period.

Please see the following link:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

[rakeysh.patel]

One FPN within last 12 months will not effect application unless it's serious.

question is does this needs to be declared?

[milan69]

by Amber » Wed May 29, 2013 5:23 pm

As long as it is a normal FPN or a court issued FPN that is not recorded on his/her criminal record it will not be considered as a non-custodial conviction and should not lead to a refusal. Disclosure of an FPN is optional.

[Manka10]

Only minor FPNs like speeding, parking etc can be omitted, all other traffic offences have to be declared
Have you declared it in any previous application? if not then just skip it since its already spent now

[rakeysh.patel]

Only minor FPNs like speeding, parking etc can be omitted, all other traffic offences have to be declared
Have you declared it in any previous application? if not then just skip it since its already spent now

Quite contradictory to what you said above (listing the conviction regardless of what happen!!) - I wonder what made you change your stance!

[rakeysh.patel]

by Amber » Wed May 29, 2013 5:23 pm

As long as it is a normal FPN or a court issued FPN that is not recorded on his/her criminal record it will not be considered as a non-custodial conviction and should not lead to a refusal. Disclosure of an FPN is optional.

Thanks Milan. I spoke to HO this morning, I have been told that - had FPN been issued in past 3 years, this "may' have been ground for refusal but since this was in 2008 (ie 6+ years ago) this wont be a problem. That said, according to the chap I spoke with, I should list it and include a cover note.

Amber = If you can please take a moment in light of the advise I have gotten from HO customer service, and see how this aligns to your post on the sticky?

Best

[Manka10]

Only minor FPNs like speeding, parking etc can be omitted, all other traffic offences have to be declared
Have you declared it in any previous application? if not then just skip it since its already spent now

Quite contradictory to what you said above (listing the conviction regardless of what happen!!) - I wonder what made you change your stance!

The form clearly states that speeding and parking FPNs can be omitted, When I said declare everything, I meant you can omit those FPNs. Havent changed my mind on anything. The form is asking for ALL traffic offences, so if you have declared it earlier then no harm in declaring it again else just skip

Also, I said list all convictions regardless of WHEN it happened, not what happened

[rakeysh.patel]

Thanks Manka. I had not previously declared it. I spoke with HO this morning and I guess it's better to be safe then be sorry! I'd go ahead and list it and will add a cover note to explain. I've now run into another prob that I wasn't aware of! HMRC mess d up my PAYE last year and undercharged the tax. They are to re work my tax code for next FY to collect the dues - not sure how this affects the application. Trying to get through to HMRC as I type this. The joy!!!

[fwd079]

Thanks Manka. I had not previously declared it. I spoke with HO this morning and I guess it's better to be safe then be sorry! I'd go ahead and list it and will add a cover note to explain. I've now run into another prob that I wasn't aware of! HMRC messed up my PAYE last year and undercharged the tax. They are to re work my tax code for next FY to collect the dues - not sure how this affects the application. Trying to get through to HMRC as I type this. The joy!!!

Personally I don't think HMRC's own mistake matters much because it is their fault. My own example, I too was sent a letter while I was still on my ILR, that I owed £300 due to their miscalculations. But letter said I could pay it in next three years. I applied for Naturalisation without paying it and got approval.

[Manka10]

Just call up HMRC mate and ask if you owe then anything, if yes then how can you set up the payment.

Its all up to the immigrant to have everything sorted unfortunately, neither HMRC nor HO care who's fault it maybe but if the taxes aren't in line then HO will hand down a refusal even if it was HMRC that was sloppy

[rakeysh.patel]

Just call up HMRC mate and ask if you owe then anything, if yes then how can you set up the payment.

Its all up to the immigrant to have everything sorted unfortunately, neither HMRC nor HO care who's fault it maybe but if the taxes aren't in line then HO will hand down a refusal even if it was HMRC that was sloppy

Just spoke with 'em. The so called "quickest" way is for them to send out the payment slip (via 2nd class) and for me to send in a cheque for the amount (£830) owed and them processing it (upto 4 weeks). So give it 6-8 weeks

Just as I thought my day cant get any better!!!