EEA route for N.Ireland dual British/Irish citizens?

[rdmt18]

Hi,

Ok so my partner who is a Non EEA Citizen from Venezuela arrives in Northern Ireland in Sept 2015. He will be arriving via a 'Marriage Visitor Visa' as we intend to register as a civil partnership or maybe marry depending on the outcome of Irelands 'Same-Sex Marriage' referendum in May.

After we do this the plan is to begin the process of using the Surinder Singh case of getting permission for my partner to remain in Northern Ireland with me.

Although as Northern Ireland is unique in terms of we have dual British/Irish citizenship it is a bit confusing. I'm not sure as to whether it is a good thing or bad thing. I previously held a British passport as a child but currently only hold an Irish passport and consider myself Irish. Some of the questions I have about my options for using the Surinder Singh route are:

1. Am I at a disadvantage as I have both citizenships, therefore I need to go to another country to exercise my EU rights? or,

2. Is it possible, for example - If I renounce my British Citizenship and continue living in N. Ireland, I can be considered as an Irish National living in the UK, and therefore be exercising my EU rights? or,

3. The opposite - where I could renounce my Irish Citizenship then, cross the the boarder to Dublin for 6 months and be looked as a British Citizen in Ireland exercising my EU rights, then reclaim my Irish Citizenship in the future?

4. Or is Ireland and the UK out of the question for me and I need to go further?

[el patron]

Many successes and no failures (that I am aware of) with option 2, the Home Office are going to increase the cost of renunciation soon so if you do it now it will only cost £144

[chaoclive]

1. Am I at a disadvantage as I have both citizenships, therefore I need to go to another country to exercise my EU rights? or, A BLESSING AND A CURSE TO BE HONEST. ACCORDING TO THE STRICTEST DEFINITION OF THE LAW YOU WOULD HAVE TO GO TO ANOTHER EU COUNTRY BUT, AS YOU KNOW, THERE ARE THE OTHER OPTIONS BELOW.

2. Is it possible, for example - If I renounce my British Citizenship and continue living in N. Ireland, I can be considered as an Irish National living in the UK, and therefore be exercising my EU rights? or, I HAVE BEEN THROUGH THIS ROUTE. SAME SITUATION AS YOURSELF (FROM NI; RENOUNCED IN APRIL 2014 AND GOT THE EEA FP FOR MY CIVIL PARTNER IN JUNE 2014. HE ARRIVED IN BELFAST IN AUGUST 2014 AND NOW HAS HIS RESIDENCE CARD.

3. The opposite - where I could renounce my Irish Citizenship then, cross the the boarder to Dublin for 6 months and be looked as a British Citizen in Ireland exercising my EU rights, then reclaim my Irish Citizenship in the future? YES; THIS IS ALSO AN OPTION. AS YOU BORN ON THE ISLAND OF IRELAND BEFORE 2005 YOU ARE ALWAYS ENTITLED TO GET YOUR IRISH CITIZENSHIP BACK AGAIN IN THE FUTURE.

4. Or is Ireland and the UK out of the question for me and I need to go further? NO - BOTH ARE POSSIBLE

I and, as el patron said, many others, have been through option 2. Irish people can live freely in the UK anyway so there aren't any problems with this.

Any questions, just drop them here and i'll give you a bit of info around our experience. My CP is Chinese btw, not that that matters.

[rdmt18]

Thanks, I feel a lot more at ease knowing that it’s worked for others. I'm very new to all this and trying to make sense of everything.

So this worked for you, without having to leave Northern Ireland?

I was thinking even if I renounce my British Citizenship, maybe I need to have some claim to R.O.I (i.e moving there for a bit then coming back). Or is it really as simple as just renouncing the citizenship and being classed as 'Irish in the UK' even though I was born and have always lived here? I have concerns that they would question my motives for renouncing me citizenship and refuse the application based on that.

My partner arrives in Sept, we initially planned him to arrive in Belfast on a 'British marriage visitor visa' and become CP's in N. Ireland. But I'm thinking now it would look better in the application if he arrived in Dublin, and we became CP's there then applied for his FP to come to Belfast?

[jenfm]

Hi there,

Thought I'd let you know of my success! I to am from Northern Ireland and my partner non eea--we lived in Dublin for a few years and on our return to Northern Ireland applied for EE2 residence card via Suringer Singh based on my British citizenship..I had British passport as teen and then got Irish passport With the application I sent my expired British passport and current Irish passport. We applied at start of Nov 2014 and have just received permit Feb 2015.

I would try to get your partner in via Dublin and consider both live there for a few months and then once back in the north apply for the EE2! Give me a shout on here if you need anymore help!

Good luck!
J

[rdmt18]

Hi there,

Thought I'd let you know of my success! I to am from Northern Ireland and my partner non eea--we lived in Dublin for a few years and on our return to Northern Ireland applied for EE2 residence card via Suringer Singh based on my British citizenship..I had British passport as teen and then got Irish passport With the application I sent my expired British passport and current Irish passport. We applied at start of Nov 2014 and have just received permit Feb 2015.

I would try to get your partner in via Dublin and consider both live there for a few months and then once back in the north apply for the EE2! Give me a shout on here if you need anymore help!

Good luck!
J

Hi Jen, Thanks for the reply. Was it the 'Family Permit' or 'Residence Card' that you just received?

As of now I think the best thing to do is bring my partner to Ireland via Dublin and live there for a few months. Also enter our Civil Partnership there or else get married (depending on the outcome of Ireland's 'Same Sex Marriage' Referendum in May). Then apply for his Family Permit before coming back to Belfast. Then hopefully, if granted come back to Belfast and apply for EEA (EFM) Residence Card. Do you think I would have any chance of success this way?

I thought maybe I would need to Renounce my British Citizenship, because after I asked advice from the European advice they told me that as I prefer not go to another country to exercise my EU rights I am unable to rely on the EEA route for my partner as I hold British citizenship and have never lived outside of N. Ireland. I am not sure of the facts but I know it is something to do with the McCarthy case that brings a disadvantage to N. Ireland Citizens with dual British/Irish Nationality. But I guess its OK its to keep both citizenship as it worked for you?

What permission did your parter have to stay in Ireland for so long and did you apply for his family permit from Dublin before you's came back up North?

Thanks

[jenfm]

Hiya!

Yes it worked out fine having both passports because we both lived in Ireland before returning to Northern Ireland and it was based on my British citizenship which is the Surinder Singh route...we got him a stamp 4 based on my irish citizenship but might be better to get your partener a EEA Ireland while in Dublin...the family permit is just for travel but since there is no boarder you don't need it and just apply straight for residence card which is what we did,they did change the forms recently there so I would check everything.

[jenfm]

The McCarthy case is I believe an English lady back in 2012 who had never lived in Ireland but got passport because her grandparent or parent was Irish and she used this to get her non eea family member in to England and that's when things changed for dual British and Irish but then the Surinder Singh case ruled that if you are British and live in any other eea country with your non eea family you are excerising treaty rights and therefor can apply for eea2 via Surinder Singh which is what I did...even though I had an irish passport I think because people in Northern Ireland are different because I think in the eyes of uk govt they see us as British 1st...hope this makes sense!

[chaoclive]

So this worked for you, without having to leave Northern Ireland? WE WERE LIVING IN CHINA BEFORE WE CAN BACK TO NI DIRECTLY. WE NEVER WENT TO ROI AT ANY STAGE THROUGHOUT THE PROCESS.

I was thinking even if I renounce my British Citizenship, maybe I need to have some claim to R.O.I (i.e moving there for a bit then coming back). Or is it really as simple as just renouncing the citizenship and being classed as 'Irish in the UK' even though I was born and have always lived here? I have concerns that they would question my motives for renouncing me citizenship and refuse the application based on that. THAT CONCERNS ABOUT QUESTIONING YOUR MOTIVES MIGHT BE AN ISSUE NOW, BUT IT DIDN'T SEEM TO HAVE IMPACT ANYTHING WHEN I APPLIED.

My partner arrives in Sept, we initially planned him to arrive in Belfast on a 'British marriage visitor visa' and become CP's in N. Ireland. But I'm thinking now it would look better in the application if he arrived in Dublin, and we became CP's there then applied for his FP to come to Belfast? WE GOT CIVIL PARTNERED IN THE BRITISH EMBASSY IN VIETNAM. I DON'T UNDERSTAND UK MARRIAGE VISAS, SORRY. I DON'T THINK IT MATTERS WHERE YOU GET YOUR CP BUT THERE ARE CONDITIONS OF HAVING A 'MARRIAGE VISA' (AGAIN THOUGH, I'M NOT TOO SURE ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE!).

[chaoclive]

The McCarthy case is I believe an English lady back in 2012 who had never lived in Ireland but got passport because her grandparent or parent was Irish and she used this to get her non eea family member in to England and that's when things changed for dual British and Irish but then the Surinder Singh case ruled that if you are British and live in any other eea country with your non eea family you are excerising treaty rights and therefor can apply for eea2 via Surinder Singh which is what I did...even though I had an irish passport I think because people in Northern Ireland are different because I think in the eyes of uk govt they see us as British 1st...hope this makes sense!

You're lucky jen! I didn't want to dance my way around the island so renouncing was the quickest option for us but it's good to see that it still works having 2 citizenships!

[jenfm]

You're lucky jen! I didn't want to dance my way around the island so renouncing was the quickest option for us but it's good to see that it still works having 2 citizenships!

Yes! So glad it's over now and can get his Irish Citizenship sorted soon!just wish I had of known about this years ago lol

OP hope you get sorted ok!

Cheers
J

[ajmm]

Hi jenfm!

I´m from Larne!

I have been looking everywhere for any info on this, thank the lord I saw your messages on here.

Any chance I could speak to ya about the process?

[Casa]

Hi jenfm!

I´m from Larne!

I have been looking everywhere for any info on this, thank the lord I saw your messages on here.

Any chance I could speak to ya about the process?

Member jenfm hasn't visited the forum since February 2015.