PR Due but child with another woman

[Rasgullaa]

Hi,

Thank you in advance for your responses. This forum is very helpful and informative.

I am a non-eea spouse of an eea national. We are living together since 2004. Got married in 2008. EEA2 applied and received 2010 and now due for PR.

My question is around the new form (issued 30 jan). I have a child with someone other than my spouse. That was my extramarital relationship which never lasted. The child was born in 2013 and lives with the other parent (non-British) and that parent's responsibility and not reliant on me or my sponsor. I know it's a bit too early to ask as the form has just been issued but will mentioning of this have any effect on my PR application?

Best regards,

[compwin]

The simple answer is we just do not know, as you are still with your EEA spouse, i do not believe it would be automaticlly refused, but the new form is designed to look at the relationship over the 5 year period. it is early days yet

[lake1]

Hi,

Thank you in advance for your responses. This forum is very helpful and informative.

I am a non-eea spouse of an eea national. We are living together since 2004. Got married in 2008. EEA2 applied and received 2010 and now due for PR.

My question is around the new form (issued 30 jan). I have a child with someone other than my spouse. That was my extramarital relationship which never lasted. The child was born in 2013 and lives with the other parent (non-British) and that parent's responsibility and not reliant on me or my sponsor. I know it's a bit too early to ask as the form has just been issued but will mentioning of this have any effect on my PR application?

Best regards,

This shouldn't affect your application as long as you still with the EU national and meet all the other requirements.

[Rasgullaa]

Thank you for your responses.

I understand the new form is trying to assess a "subsisting" relationship with someone other than one's sponsor which , in my case, is not subsisting as the child's mother has since got into another serious relationship and I was and still am living with my spouse.

I guess my question is, if this relationship, that I had with my child's mother for such a minimal time which was about 2-3 years ago, will have any effect on my application. Also, will this outside relationship be treated as a "break/gap" in mine and my spouse,s relationship and if it will have any sort of impact?

Also, what does the law say? Is there any law that stops one to have children outside of marriage while in a marraige?

Does anyone know of such a case where the non-eea had a child outside of the marraige and how HO treated that?

I am very confused as to why HO is even asking such questions as surely this is one's private life and nobody's business!

Best regards,

[compwin]

This is a new requirment by the Home office, they never asked for this info before, as this form has only been out 3 weeks it is to early to see how they are going to view future PR applications.

[Rasgullaa]

Thanks Compwin.

Yes, the form is fairly new and I will probably be the gennnie pig for the process but I am trying to assess all the possible outcomes so I can prepare myself. I just want to know if there are any "legal" grounds on which my PR might be refused on the basis of having a child with another woman while in a subsisting relationship of 11 years (5 years before marraige and 6 since) with my wife? I hope not! But it will be good to know what are the chances of refusal due to this and what the existing law says about it.

Thanks

[Obie]

It may cast some doubt on the genuine nature of your relationship, but if indeed it is genuine, then it will not have an adverse effect.

Not many couples put up with their husband having extramarital affair or child outside of marriage .

It may raise eyebrow, especially when you are living together still, but if in the end there are evidence of a genuine relationship through out the relevant period, it should have little or no effect.

[Rasgullaa]

Thanks Obie. I value your opinion and understand totally why you would doubt the genuineness of my relationship. Of course it was a rough patch and very hard for both of us but at the end we both understood each other and I was forgiven. It has indeed taken a lot of time and efforts to win that trust back.

As per my visa affairs, I hope I am not the only one with a child outside of marraige and living with wife. My child is under 2 and my relationship with my wife is of over 11 years.

As long as there is nothing in the law to invalidate my status due to this, I am not worried as i don't have anything to hide. I have been advised not to mention it on my form but I feel bad doing so as fact is fact and as much as I am ashamed of that extramarital relationship, the child is mine regardless of what the HO thinks of me.

Thanks for your comment. I now know what to expect

[Obie]

Rasgullaa I am not a judgemental person. I have no preconceived view about your relationship.

I keep an open mind in any case, be it on the forum or at my work.

I am just specifying what they will say.

The law does not precluding you from succeeding.

[Rasgullaa]

Thanks Obie. I didn't mean it in that sense, definitely not. Apologies if I came across that way.

Thanks

[Obie]

No need to apologise. No offense taken.

I wish you all the best for the future.

[lake1]

Can you not leave out that section and not complete it? I find it irrelevant to the application and shouldnt determine the outcome as long as you are genuinely married to the EU national.

[Rasgullaa]

Thanks Lake1.

I suppose I can. In fact this is the suggestion I am getting but i am not sure if it's a part that one has to definitely fill in.unlike the EEA2 and EEA4 forms, these new ones don't actually say that "you don't have to fill this form". in the old ones, one was not required to fill the form. So if this section is necessary to be filled (which I am not sure) and I don't fill it then it will be like concealment of information. It's a catch 22! But I personally would rather tell them and have a fight on my hand with HO rather than hide something in fear as long as my act of having a child was not forbidden by law which now I know it wasn't an illegal act.If they want to scrutinise my relationship then so be it!

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

You do not have to use the form. And definitely do not have to answer all the questions.

Did you move together to the UK in 2010, or simply apply for the RC then?

[Rasgullaa]

Thanks Guru.

We were already here when we met about 11 years ago and living together since but I continued to stay under my own visa for about 5-6 years as a student and then applied as her dependant as we got married having lived together for about 5 before marriage. We got the WRS for her about 5 years ago so its only been 5 years for her treaty rights but I am here from last 12 years of with no illegal stay throughout. I was also considering to apply for ILR on long residency but was advised not to as some of my time comes under "Immigration" and the rest under "Regulation" which makes it difficult/less likely to get an ILR.

I was hoping the form will say that I don't have to fill it in but it asks not to fill the irrelevant area only.

Thanks

[Nyamebeye]

I think you can combine both your visa under immigration rules and residence card under EU regulations to apply for ILR so far as you can demonstrate treaty rights of EEA national for that period.
I know people who have done it that way and got granted.

[Obie]

I have done it for clients aswell, but time spend under the treaty rights will face significant scrutiny, especially when it appears that OP has spent 5 years under the regulation.

The extramarital child, can be used as a circumstantial evidence, if they have other evidence pointing to a sham marriage.

I have dealt with matter where this was used, but on its own, it may not stand.

It will stand in the minds of a judges if other evidence prevail, but on its own, and if other evidence point to an opposite conclusion, it will not stand.

[Rasgullaa]

Thanks both.

I think I will go for the PR, tell them everything as it is and let them do their job. Scrutiny is in both cases so why not save money!

[lake1]

I honestly don't see any issue, you have been together for 11 years and still is, that points to a genuine relationship.

If I was making the application I would almost certainly leave out that section, for example when I applied for PR almost 2 years ago there was questions about tie to your old country and places you have live before , I left these out as I felt this has nothing to do with the application and this didn't affect my application in anyway in the contrary it was granted a little over a month.

Also about applying for ILR, unless you are very rich I won't use that option considering the cost of both application.

All the best.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Since you were both living in the UK at the time of your marriage, the 5 year period begins at the date of your marriage, in 2008.

Has your EU spouse been working in the UK continuously from your marriage for the 5 years?

Do not make the mistake of telling HO everything you have done in your private life over the past 11 years. It is not lawfully needed.

What you need to provide proof of is that the EU citizen was working (or self sufficient), and that you were not outside of the UK for more than the 6 months per year. That is basically it.

[Rasgullaa]

Lake1: 1 month? that must be a record!

Directive/2004/38/EC: Yes she has been exercising her treaty rights throughout and we weren't out of the UK for any longer than 1 month each year if that.

Thanks

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Ok, well then you already have PR, since 2013 in fact. That was the 5 year anniversary of you marrying. I would recommend you apply immediately for the confirmation of PR card.

You have a private relationship history, between you and your spouse and in some cases other individuals. That is no business of the home office. You do not need to use their form to apply for the PR card. A simple cover letter should do.

You will need to provide evidence that the EU citizen was working in that period, e.g. P11D for each year. If you have been working, then you can submit your P11D to prove you were resident in the UK (residence matters, not that you were working). And your passport, your marriage certificate, and your spouses ID card or passport.

Be sure to list all the things you have sent them. And keep copies of EVERYTHING

[Rasgullaa]

Thanks Guru.

Makes complete sense as long as it is not considered as "concealment" of information but it shouldn't as my private life is private and anyone trying to tell me what I should do and what not is an intervention in human right and completely irrelevant!

Thanks