spouse visa - tricky accommodation requirement

[jeremy001181]

Hi all

background:

I am a ILR settlement visa holder, currently applying spouse visa for my missus who has came to UK and stayed with for 20 days ish under family visa once on Jan 2014, and maybe worth to mention that, before last visit she also had refusal as well when she tried to come to UK as general visitor on 2013.

Okay, regarding accommodation,

The flat I am currently living in is too small to satisfy the ECO, so I am considering moving to somewhere else bigger, and also I would like to save some money as well by just finding a double bed room to move in, and luckily I found a nice 2 en-suite double beds flat where the owner and his wife are currently living in one of the two rooms, so if I and my missus move in then we will be taking another one, and everyone shares living room and Spam. So it's 4 persons in 3 rooms (2 beds + 1 living room) flat

And the landlord is not happy to get a property inspect report for me , but he said he is okay to give me a copy of floorplan, so would it be able to satisfy the ECO?

Thanks

Ming

[Amber]

See also, Guidance on Accommodation Overcrowding (click).

[Rayking]

You need an assured shorthold tenancy agreement and because landlord lives in with you,that wouldn't meet the criteria.
It might be better for you to look for another place to save a lot of headache. I've had to change applying now to get this sorted too.
Property inspection is the best way to validate the house if it's not a flat.

[jeremy001181]

See also, Guidance on Accommodation Overcrowding (click).

Thanks Amber, I read through the guidance and got few questions, and please help me.

1. Does the guidance apply to flat as well?
2. And in the guidance, the HMO defined as "a house, which is occupied by persons who do not form a single household". This very wide definition covers hotels and hostels, as well as houses lived in by 2 or more couples of different generations where they do not share common facilities." The landlord and his wife are same generation as me, and we will share common facilities, does it mean HMO doesn't apply to my case?

Thanks

[jeremy001181]

You need an assured shorthold tenancy agreement

Do you mean that assured shorthold tenancy agreement is one of eligibilities? I couldn't find any documents in gov site regarding this ... can you please help me find a reference please?

Thanks

[Rayking]

sorry,if I can't give that expert opinion, but I'll try my best.lol
If you live in a flat,you only need to show,your tenancy agreement and letter from your landlord or agent that your girlfriend or wife can stay in the property.
Assured shorthold tenancy or any form of agreement is simply stating the length of your agreement and HO expects you to have a minimum of 6 month at least on your agreement before you apply or should be stated in the letter by your landlord he will renew the agreement at the end of the one you got.

If you live in a shared house,it's a bit different as you need to get property inspection done to proof the house or room you've got is big enough for 2 ppl. If you contact your local council, they should tell you more and check the house.
Then you'll still get letter from your landlord stating your girlfriend can stay with you and the tenancy agreement, 6 months still on it or he should state he's willing to renew it.
You can find all this in accommodation requirements on home office website but as it's not written in blue black,it's confusing tbh.
Let me state this issue has actually prevented me from applying up till now,my house failed the inspection report and had to look for another place,crazy!isn't it? Lol
You wouldn't need to worry if it's a flat,just get tenancy agreement,letter from your landlord stating your woman can move in with you. 6 months agreement at least at the time of your application or he should state his willingness to renew it.
You can read about AST and housing act of 1985,they make it not to be straight forward so they can use that against ppl I guess!
Lastly, if you live in an accommodation where your landlord lives with you,you don't enjoy the security that an assured shorthold tenants enjoy,which mean he can throw you out of the house at the shortest possible time.in other word AST gives you security. You can Google this and check types of tenancy agreement. All I'm saying is what some clever guys have written on here with a bit of research and personal experience of failing inspection report. Let me know if I've omitted anything, hope this help a bit
I just feel it's worth getting it right b4 applying, £885 isn't a joke! Lol

[jeremy001181]

Thank you Rayking!! You are a star, finally I got some confidences, before I was worrying about getting a property inspection report on a flat where i am gonna share with landlord.

Regarding your last point, will HO refuse my application because the potential security issue you points out? To be honest, the landlord is my friend. Lol.., i didn't mention it as i thought it wouldn't help my application.

sorry,if I can't give that expert opinion, but I'll
try my best.lol
If you live in a flat,you only need to show,your tenancy agreement and letter from your landlord or agent that your girlfriend or wife can stay in the property.
Assured shorthold tenancy or any form of agreement is simply stating the length of your agreement and HO expects you to have a minimum of 6 month at least on your agreement before you apply or should be stated in the letter by your landlord he will renew the agreement at the end of the one you got.

If you live in a shared house,it's a bit different as you need to get property inspection done to proof the house or room you've got is big enough for 2 ppl. If you contact your local council, they should tell you more and check the house.
Then you'll still get letter from your landlord stating your girlfriend can stay with you and the tenancy agreement, 6 months still on it or he should state he's willing to renew it.
You can find all this in accommodation requirements on home office website but as it's not written in blue black,it's confusing tbh.
Let me state this issue has actually prevented me from applying up till now,my house failed the inspection report and had to look for another place,crazy!isn't it? Lol
You wouldn't need to worry if it's a flat,just get tenancy agreement,letter from your landlord stating your woman can move in with you. 6 months agreement at least at the time of your application or he should state his willingness to renew it.
You can read about AST and housing act of 1985,they make it not to be straight forward so they can use that against ppl I guess!
Lastly, if you live in an accommodation where your landlord lives with you,you don't enjoy the security that an assured shorthold tenants enjoy,which mean he can throw you out of the house at the shortest possible time.in other word AST gives you security. You can Google this and check types of tenancy agreement. All I'm saying is what some clever guys have written on here with a bit of research and personal experience of failing inspection report. Let me know if I've omitted anything, hope this help a bit
I just feel it's worth getting it right b4 applying, £885 isn't a joke! Lol

[Rayking]

If the tenancy is in your name,that's straightforward then,just get letter from your landlord that he's got no objection to your wife moving in and make sure you still have 6 months at least on your agreement.
If it's not your name on the tenancy agreement that might be a bit tricky and to be honest, really don't know how to deal with that.just check the forum,I'm sure you'll get a similar case.

[jeremy001181]

Thanks

Do u mean tenancy of the whole flat? Or tenancy of the double room?, I am going to share the flat with landlord so I will get a lodger agreement which will have my name on it, is that what you mean? and he also happy to give me a 'no objection letter'

[Rayking]

If you don't pay rent and your friend is willing to help,then he will need to provide a letter stating he's willing to allow you and your wife to stay in the flat.then he will have to provide, the land deed,may be the floor plan,it might be wise to have the inspection done to show the flat won't be overcrowded, if he owns the property it might be a lot easier but if it's rented,I really don't know bcos if he's got a landlord, the landlord obviously can't give you a letter as you're not his tenant.

[jeremy001181]

just had a thought about whether I need to provide the rental agreement of the current flat from where I will move out before we submit application??
Anyone please?

[SoHopeful]

No you just need the details of your accommodation at the time of application if it's suitable.

[Bucki]

Actually ... I have the same worries .

From what I read and understood: as long as I get a tenancy agreement of 6 month or more *willing to renew* at the time of the visa application , and a letter from landlord that your wife can live there ... then all is good actually, how about council tax documents ?!

there are 2 things:

• - if it is a shared house but owning your own room (but sharing Spam and bathroom)
  then a room inspection is required to make sure the room is big enough ...
  
  - if you rent a 1 bed room house then the inspection is not required?!
  
  - how about a STUDIO flat where your bed is in your living room ?!

While I am here ...

I got a new job 2 hrs away :/
now having to move as I cant afford driving up and down.

and I thought to myself "maybe I can use my current address, with the documents when I apply for the visa ..." can i still do that?? even tho my job is like miles away ..... ?! since I dont have to provide any sort of council tax documents etc ?!

[Rayking]

Actually ... I have the same worries .

From what I read and understood: as long as I get a tenancy agreement of 6 month or more *willing to renew* at the time of the visa application , and a letter from landlord that your wife can live there ... then all is good actually, how about council tax documents ?!

there are 2 things:

• - if it is a shared house but owning your own room (but sharing Spam and bathroom)
  then a room inspection is required to make sure the room is big enough ...
  
  - if you rent a 1 bed room house then the inspection is not required?!
  
  - how about a STUDIO flat where your bed is in your living room ?!

While I am here ...

I got a new job 2 hrs away :/
now having to move as I cant afford driving up and down.

and I thought to myself "maybe I can use my current address, with the documents when I apply for the visa ..." can i still do that?? even tho my job is like miles away ..... ?! since I dont have to provide any sort of council tax documents etc ?!

Council tax not needed in any way,I did it as I explained above and everything was successful twice.
*no inspection for flat or studio flat
*inspection for shared house,that is,a room. Mine was shared house,having a room exclusively for my use.
* letter from landlord and tenancy showing at least 6 month or landlord stating you can stay in the house beyond your agreement if tenancy isn't up to 6 months.
Where your home & you work has no effect on your application, as long as your documents show the address is the same with your payslips and bank statements.

[Bucki]

Council tax not needed in any way,I did it as I explained above and everything was successful twice.
*no inspection for flat or studio flat
*inspection for shared house,that is,a room. Mine was shared house,having a room exclusively for my use.
* letter from landlord and tenancy showing at least 6 month or landlord stating you can stay in the house beyond your agreement if tenancy isn't up to 6 months.
Where your home & you work has no effect on your application, as long as your documents show the address is the same with your payslips and bank statements.

Ok good, if Council Tax is not needed
what about letters of bills such as electric / gas and water ... ?? has that got any effect ?!

Shared house, usually you pay like £500pcm and it covers@ council, water, electric, gas.
I could potentially ask the landlord to state in tenancy agreement that with the price all the expenses are covered

Now, with the regards to "using my current home" as a living accommodation whereby I be living elsewhere,
not sure if this would be ideal ???

I will NOT change my address at my bank ... so statements would show same addreess lol
with regards to work, well that is tricky .... dont think my addresss would show in the payslip :/
(while working for NEXT, previous job, my addresss was not shown on it)

Maybe, I could ask the new job to use my current / old address ...

but yeh, since I can use SHARED ACCOMMODATION for the application, would be just simpler to use new address instead.

[Rayking]

Bills,council tax and all that haven't got any effect on your application tbh. Well,if I were you,I won't change my address for now,I will ask my present landlord if my partner can stay with me and if he can give me required letter because some landlord can be funny at times.
Secondly, I'll do the inspection report to see if the room will pass the inspection because you can't use it if the council says it's not big enough for 2 of you.
If all this can be sorted out,then I won't still change the address until when I'm about to apply, you can always explain the fact that you have 2 homes and your wife will be staying............... Whichever one you choose, even if you don't change the address.

[Bucki]

Bills,council tax and all that haven't got any effect on your application tbh. Well,if I were you,I won't change my address for now,I will ask my present landlord if my partner can stay with me and if he can give me required letter because some landlord can be funny at times.
Secondly, I'll do the inspection report to see if the room will pass the inspection because you can't use it if the council says it's not big enough for 2 of you.
If all this can be sorted out,then I won't still change the address until when I'm about to apply, you can always explain the fact that you have 2 homes and your wife will be staying............... Whichever one you choose, even if you don't change the address.

hahaaa my friend, you put a big smile on my face
I do not know what to believe lol

current address: is my parents, as told u before: they are on incapacity benefit.
The house is owned by private housing association, not by local council.

therefore, any letters regards to permission would be issued by the private housing association, right.

My idea was, not to change my address at all.
and when I make the application, to use the current address at my parents.

So many people say "yes yes, u need to rent ur own place and show council tax and bills etc etc" ... I am going crazy!

You said this:

If all this can be sorted out,then I won't still change the address until when I'm about to apply, you can always explain the fact that you have 2 homes and your wife will be staying

why did you say "i would not change the address until when I am about to apply... " what exactly do you mean by that>?!
Do you mean, 1 month before application, I should change my old address to the new one .. but why ?! would i not need to provide the same proof for the new address again!!

[SoHopeful]

Many people on here have sponsored spouses whilst living in their parents' housing association or council house. You need written consent from your parents and their housing association for your spouse to join the household. Consent from the landlord shouldn't be a problem if overcrowding isn't/or won't be an issue.

[Bucki]

The question which I like to find out is:

Can I still use my parents address, with their consent and landlord agreement etc etc.
even though, I would be living somewhere else near the new job (shared 1 double bedroom).

Most of these landlord offering shared rooms, will not want couples ...
therefore, they won't do a consent someone else to move in (unless he does just for the sake of evidence)

But yeh

[SoHopeful]

Checks carried out by ECOs vary with each application so no one would be able to confirm or refute that. My only advise on that would be not lie.

I'm not sure why it's difficult to find a shared place for a couple - the difficulty is usually for those with kids.

[Rayking]

Bills,council tax and all that haven't got any effect on your application tbh. Well,if I were you,I won't change my address for now,I will ask my present landlord if my partner can stay with me and if he can give me required letter because some landlord can be funny at times.
Secondly, I'll do the inspection report to see if the room will pass the inspection because you can't use it if the council says it's not big enough for 2 of you.
If all this can be sorted out,then I won't still change the address until when I'm about to apply, you can always explain the fact that you have 2 homes and your wife will be staying............... Whichever one you choose, even if you don't change the address.

hahaaa my friend, you put a big smile on my face
I do not know what to believe lol

current address: is my parents, as told u before: they are on incapacity benefit.
The house is owned by private housing association, not by local council.

therefore, any letters regards to permission would be issued by the private housing association, right.

My idea was, not to change my address at all.
and when I make the application, to use the current address at my parents.

So many people say "yes yes, u need to rent ur own place and show council tax and bills etc etc" ... I am going crazy!

You said this:

If all this can be sorted out,then I won't still change the address until when I'm about to apply, you can always explain the fact that you have 2 homes and your wife will be staying

why did you say "i would not change the address until when I am about to apply... " what exactly do you mean by that>?!
Do you mean, 1 month before application, I should change my old address to the new one .. but why ?! would i not need to provide the same proof for the new address again!!

I said that base on the fact that you have 2 options, your permanent address and work address. If you want to use your parents address, there's no point changing it,I was thinking you're asking which one to use,and you can use the 2 provided you can get the required documents for each accommodation. What I meant by "I won't change address" is that you wouldn't want to change address and the landlord says he can't give you letter or inspection report isn't favourable.
In summary, if you're using your parents place, that's fine,as long as you get all required docs.

[Bucki]

Checks carried out by ECOs vary with each application so no one would be able to confirm or refute that. My only advise on that would be not lie.

I'm not sure why it's difficult to find a shared place for a couple - the difficulty is usually for those with kids.

I read something with ECO starting that shared property where 2 couple live in, cannot be shared .. etc
I did not quite understand it but to me it sounded like that, I could not move into a shared property, where already 1 or 2 couple are living already.

But then I am thinking this way: a flat with 2 double bedrooms, should allow 4 adults to live in.
dont know why it would matter if they are couples or gay's or whatever...

mmm

[Bucki]

I said that base on the fact that you have 2 options, your permanent address and work address. If you want to use your parents address, there's no point changing it,I was thinking you're asking which one to use,and you can use the 2 provided you can get the required documents for each accommodation. What I meant by "I won't change address" is that you wouldn't want to change address and the landlord says he can't give you letter or inspection report isn't favourable.
In summary, if you're using your parents place, that's fine,as long as you get all required docs.

yeh, I would rather my parents address as I am more confident that I am able to provide the documents:

- tenancy agreement with the list of my parents name and mine
- agreement that another adult can move in
- agreement from my parent
- house inspection if needed

THe other thing you mentioned is "payslip with same address of the property"
hmmm that i what made me think ... cos I dont know if my addresss would be on payslip.

So yeh,

Logically, how I am looking at this property mater is like:

as long as I have a property, whether shared or 1 room flat, where I can show that, I be there for 6 month and possible extension and the permission from landlord that my wife can move in and the property inspection = this should be all fine ... whether I use my parents address, or my new address or even my friends address.

My local mates are doing my headache, saying that bills and council tax proof is a must for ECO.
Even tho this does not make sense to me . to why they would need to see my bills and council tax of the property I live in.

[Rayking]

Sorry Bucki,that was a mistake on my part,I was going to say your bank statement, not pay slip.
To your question, YES and your mates? Look don't listen to them, the beauty of this forum is that we're not telling you what hasn't been tried.I didn't know anything until I came on this forum,I was relying on the old system of doing it.
I got here,asked lots of questions and by the time my girlfriend then applied, I was 100% sure they couldn't refuse her,she kept saying "how am I sure of that" I was just so sure.
She applied for fiance visa and then marriage.
I also had this accommodation issue and I used a shared house, what the rule says is for me to have a room exclusively for my use. As I wasn't sure about it,i went ahead and print out accommodation requirement and the laws and then wrote a defence of the fact that the law says I can use that.
I can send it to you if you're interested, you can send a private msg later. The good thing is you have enough time,I had to start from scratch and today we're together.
Just don't listen to them if they haven't applied in recent time,that was old system.
But make sure,your address on your bank statements is the same to where you'll be using as accommodation.

[Bucki]

Wow

mate, i appreciate your time and help
I really do and I thank anybody else who tried to help me out on this matter.

Yes, my mates married like 5+ years ago and I suppose at that time: council tax and bills were required.

At this point I got the job £20K per year, with 18month contract, and will use my parents or shared room as my accomodation provided: i get the documents as you explained

- 6 month payslip + bank

and thays about it

i cant wait to get this over me.

yes pls send me to my inbox.


Thanks