US to UK Migration - From the Beginning

[Gattaca]

Hello everyone, I am pleased to have found this forum after much research. I apologize for the long post, and hope that many will try to read it and offer some input. Let me first introduce myself; My name is Johnny and I am a 21 year old student living in Phoenix, Arizona, United States.

For as long as I can remember I have been vastly intrigued by the United Kingdom and from a very early age felt a desire to move there. Over the years the dream faded in and out of my childhood, until the age of 16 when I knew for sure that I wanted to live in the UK. Unlike most children's childhood dreams, mine never faded away, and only got stronger as I aged. Now, being 21, I have been getting very serious recently about researching the matter and preparing. I plan to move in June of 2010, with my girlfriend whom I am in a serious relationship with and feels the same way as I do.

Recently I've been getting a little panicky about the entire matter, as the more research I do, the more difficult I find it will be. I will not qualify for the HSMP because I will not hit 75 points, I will be at 50. I cannot achieve the remaining 25 points without making $50,000ish USD for 12 months, which I see very unachievable if I'm to move by age 24.

We are prepared to take every step necessary to make our move to the UK (specifically London) from now till June of 2010. I am even willing to change my major and degree, nothing matters more to me than living, and eventually becoming a British citizen.

So I am here looking for personal advice of any kind. I have 2 yrs and 9 months to prepare and I want to do it right. I do not feel that the worker's visa is a stable route for the future and do not feel secure in both my girlfriend and I acquiring a job in the same vicsinity through this route.

I understand that it is illegal to job hunt on a tourist visa. How lax are employers on this rule? If I did walk into an office and talked to somebody, and they liked me, but I was on a visitor's visa, what would they say/do?

Currently I live at home and my girlfriend at her's. We plan to do so until we move and luckily have wonderful parents that support our dreams. I go to school full time, have completed my Associates of Arts degree, and am currently pursing a Bachelors in Philosophy and a Bachelors in English with a focus in creative writing. I've worked at a publishing company and magazine for the past two years, I work an average of 20 hours a week and do anything from editing to server maintenance, tehnical support to graphic design. I have worked on my US credit since I was 16 and bought a house about 6 months ago and am renting it out. I save very little because of my house payment difference and $3000 credit card payments. I put $50 away every week towards my move, which will equal roughly $7500 USD or 3,250 GBP when I plan to move. My real investment/saver is the house, which I hope will have gained a decent bit of equity in 2 yrs 6 months. It is a $315,000 house and is currently appraised at $345,000, but everyone knows how bad the housing market is.

Anyways, like I said, I'm looking for personal and factual advice of all kinds, I want to make the next 2 years and 9 months as devoted to the move as possible, and want to make sure it will be a reality.

I really appreciate the help and thank you for your time.

Johnny

[VictoriaS]

I suggest that you take a look at www.workingintheuk.gov.uk to have a look at the work permit requirements. This will give you a rough idea of the skills needed to persue this. However, be aware that the rules are about to change, so this may all be obsolete by the time you apply.

There is going to be little else you can do to get here if you don't meet the HSMP route, unless you want to fund further studies.

Can I make a suggestion? Why not come over on a BUNAC to see if you like the place first? This is easy to get, and will give you a feel for the place before you take the drastic step of changing your major to veterinary science or something similar!

Victoria

[SYH]

Any idea when the next change will go into effect?

[Gattaca]

I've been to the workingintheuk.gov.uk page, it gave alot of general info, but I didn't find any specifics.

The BUNAC seems interesting, but I'm honestly looking to make the pursuit towards citizenship. I know I may sound ahead of myself, but I am 100% sure I want to live in the UK permenately. This is why I don't mind devoting the next 2yrs and 9months toward making that a step to reality, even if I have to change my mjor to "veterinary science."

I will look into the BUNAC a little more to see if it is a possibility at opening doors, but what I'm really looking for is concrete strategies and paths toward getting a job/citizenship etc. I know citizenship is a long process, but I want to mke the path toward that a stable one. It is so unfortunate that looking for a job on a visitor's visa is illegal, how strict are they on this =(?

[Wanderer]

It is so unfortunate that looking for a job on a visitor's visa is illegal, how strict are they on this =(?

It's not illegal to *look* for a job on a VV. If you find an employer obviously they would want to see ur right to work here or be willing to apply for a WP for you. But for that u'd need to be highly-skilled/coveted and for there to be no local candidates suitable.

[EdgeHillMole]

Well you could always do what many others around the world are now (No doubt) trying to do:

1. Get a Visa in a different EU country;
2. Work there for a few years until you qualify for EU citizenship;
3. Move to the UK

Whilst the doors for non-EU immigrants are rapidly closing on us (Even those of us already within the UK), as part of EU law the UK is being required to take-all-comers who are nationals of the EU member states.

[Gattaca]

Wanderer, I read somewhere that it was illegal to job hunt while on your visitor's visa. Are you sure you are allowed to apply and job hunt while in UK while on visitor's visa? I keep reading work permits are so hard becuase you have to basically be hired without even ever meeting the person, and the employer has to prove to the city that there was no other qualified applicants in all of the UK.

Is it even possible to get a job in another EU country without being fluent in the native language?

I'm so distressed lately finding out how difficult it is to migrate to the UK from the US. I always just assumed since we were "strong allies" that being a US citizen migrated to the UK would be easy. Boy was I wrong.

But that's why I'm here. Like I said I'm prepared to take any step necessary over the next 2 yrs 9 months to make my move and citizenship to the UK a reality. Even if it means learning another language I suppose.

It's bizarre to contemplate the thought of not being able to travel and live where you please. It makes sense and all, but it's bizarre to contemplate the fact. I wish people could just trade citizenships (haha). I find somebody that wants US citizenship, they are Brit citizen, we trade!

Thanks for the responses so far everyone.

[Wanderer]

It's bizarre to contemplate the thought of not being able to travel and live where you please.

This is largely what the EU is trying to achieve for us Europeans. I honestly thought it would never work, but it's not too bad!

U deffo can LOOK on a VV, but really that's a tenth or ur battle, but I've got jobs far better than my technical abilities normally allow, cos I have wit and charm*, if u have those too, who knows, some UK employer might push the boat out for u.

I've seen some crap people in great jobs cos they have this 'je ne sais quoi', speaks louder than bits of paper.

(*) 100% true.

[Platinum]

If you're willing to do anything, think about studying a subject that will get you in almost anywhere: nursing or medicine.

Or: finish your bachelor's degree and apply to a UK university for graduate school. If you're good enough, you will be funded, especially in the sciences. I did a science degree, but I didn't try to do grad school in the UK. I did it in the US, pursued jobs in Europe, and got offers. Try that?

You're *technically* not supposed to look for work on a visitor's visa (or visa waiver) but as long as you intend on returning to your home country to await the required work permit, it's fine. I came into EU countries for my interviews, and when asked, said I was entering the country for a job interview. No one batted an eye. Not even the Germans! Mind you, I had proof of specific interview appointments and stuff. I didn't just saunter up to passport control and say, Oh, I dunno, I was thinkin' about looking for work.

[Wanderer]

If you're willing to do anything, think about studying a subject that will get you in almost anywhere: nursing or medicine.

Or: finish your bachelor's degree and apply to a UK university for graduate school. If you're good enough, you will be funded, especially in the sciences. I did a science degree, but I didn't try to do grad school in the UK. I did it in the US, pursued jobs in Europe, and got offers. Try that?

You're *technically* not supposed to look for work on a visitor's visa (or visa waiver) but as long as you intend on returning to your home country to await the required work permit, it's fine. I came into EU countries for my interviews, and when asked, said I was entering the country for a job interview. No one batted an eye. Not even the Germans! Mind you, I had proof of specific interview appointments and stuff. I didn't just saunter up to passport control and say, Oh, I dunno, I was thinkin' about looking for work.

Platty - I agree but don't tell UK IO what ur doing re jobs, I see the point. Being caught with job interview appointments would mean a trip home in UK ...

But it's like seeing ur gf on a VV, u play the game.

[sakura]

Wanderer, I read somewhere that it was illegal to job hunt while on your visitor's visa. Are you sure you are allowed to apply and job hunt while in UK while on visitor's visa? I keep reading work permits are so hard becuase you have to basically be hired without even ever meeting the person, and the employer has to prove to the city that there was no other qualified applicants in all of the UK.

Is it even possible to get a job in another EU country without being fluent in the native language?

I'm so distressed lately finding out how difficult it is to migrate to the UK from the US. I always just assumed since we were "strong allies" that being a US citizen migrated to the UK would be easy. Boy was I wrong.

But that's why I'm here. Like I said I'm prepared to take any step necessary over the next 2 yrs 9 months to make my move and citizenship to the UK a reality. Even if it means learning another language I suppose.

It's bizarre to contemplate the thought of not being able to travel and live where you please. It makes sense and all, but it's bizarre to contemplate the fact. I wish people could just trade citizenships (haha). I find somebody that wants US citizenship, they are Brit citizen, we trade!

Thanks for the responses so far everyone.

Strong allies? Only when it suits you guys, I guess...*

OK. Firstly, your majors are not very "travel-worthy"...not like IT, Medicine, Nursing or Teaching. So, you'd need to have a great deal of work experience in order to get a work permit - there are so many graduates in a position similar to yours that there'd be little chance of you securing a work permit without relevant work experience (i.e. a 'fresh' graduate would find it hard competing with EU nationals). Well, not that it's impossible...I'm assuming that with creative writing you want to be a journalist/publishing or author or something? Journalism might be good, but you'd have to be pretty high up to get a work permit (+ crap loads of competition in this field). Marketing might be a good way in (advertising marketing)...since it has high bonuses/OTE, etc, and good pay scale. Might help you with the HSMP points requirements. However, all us here will point out to you that by 2010 the rules for HSMP/work permit would certainly have changed (by how much, no one knows), since the government is planning on introducing a tiered migration scheme, and maybe making the requirements for work permits a little tougher (apparently too many people with a WP can't prove that they speak English, for example!). So expect some changes.

Not sure about why you mention your own home...unless you plan to sell it and use it to fund your studies? If you do plan to study here, it's not the fastest route to settlement and might mean you might have to study much longer than you can take, just to meet the residency requirements.

When do you graduate? When does your girlfriend graduate? What does she study?

Do you actually know anything about living in the UK? Have you been to London, 'tested the waters'? I suggest you do at least visit here and see what it's like.

If you're really planning the move for 2010, and you graduate in...say, one year? So you have 21 months to 'plan'? Unfortunately, I can only imagine you coming to the UK as a student, in which case it'll be a long process to citizenship.

As an aside...do you have any European ancestry (going back no more than grandparents, or great-grandparents. No uncles or cousins.)?



* Obviously "you" refers not to the OP but to the general American-UK relations issues. Thinking of the Natwest Two issue in particular. OK political jibe over!

[Gattaca]

Strong allies? Only when it suits you guys, I guess...*

OK. Firstly, your majors are not very "travel-worthy"...not like IT, Medicine, Nursing or Teaching. So, you'd need to have a great deal of work experience in order to get a work permit - there are so many graduates in a position similar to yours that there'd be little chance of you securing a work permit without relevant work experience (i.e. a 'fresh' graduate would find it hard competing with EU nationals). Well, not that it's impossible...I'm assuming that with creative writing you want to be a journalist/publishing or author or something? Journalism might be good, but you'd have to be pretty high up to get a work permit (+ crap loads of competition in this field). Marketing might be a good way in (advertising marketing)...since it has high bonuses/OTE, etc, and good pay scale. Might help you with the HSMP points requirements. However, all us here will point out to you that by 2010 the rules for HSMP/work permit would certainly have changed (by how much, no one knows), since the government is planning on introducing a tiered migration scheme, and maybe making the requirements for work permits a little tougher (apparently too many people with a WP can't prove that they speak English, for example!). So expect some changes.

Not sure about why you mention your own home...unless you plan to sell it and use it to fund your studies? If you do plan to study here, it's not the fastest route to settlement and might mean you might have to study much longer than you can take, just to meet the residency requirements.

When do you graduate? When does your girlfriend graduate? What does she study?

Do you actually know anything about living in the UK? Have you been to London, 'tested the waters'? I suggest you do at least visit here and see what it's like.

Haha well first, you won't catching me politically defending the US. I don't want to be "an American," as bad and as unappreciative as that sounds...

I realize my major isn't very travelworthy, and that is unfortunate as I love Philosophy and Creative Writing. Although I have had 2 years of professional experience as a jr. writer at a professional magazine. But, like I said, both my girlfriend and I are willing to take any steps necessary to secure a job and eventually citizenship in the UK. So yeah, if my only option was nursing, I'd spend the next two years getting a nursing degree. I'd like to find a route where I can study my passions though. Currently we will both graduate in 24 months, this is our first semester pursuing our BA, we already have associates (or 64 credits), so will complete a BA each in 24 months. We have 33 months until our planned move date.

I only mention my home (Arizona) to introduce myself. The house I own is merely so I can secure a "pillow" in my bank account upon arriving. So that I may rent a place for a month, "test the waters" as you say and look for work. I'm hoping to sell the home before I leave and have extra money from equity gained from now till then.

No, I haven't tested the waters, and I know all the research I can do still won't really give me a complete feel for the city, but I'm pretty positively sure, and if not London, I still want to be in the UK and a British citizen.

[VictoriaS]

You can look for work on a visit visa. But when you come in, if the IO asks what you intend to do, if you say 'look for work' then you will probably be refused entry.

The first wave of changes begin in February.

Victoria

[Gattaca]

This is all very good to know. I am a little relieved at knowing that you can look for work while on visitor's visa, but you just have to be careful. In general do employers mind doing this? Having you go home for a week or two while they get you a worker's visa?

How badly do you guys think the rules will change in April? If the problem is not being able to prove people speak English, won't they just enforce English tests or something and I will not have to worry? Any speculation?

We're both seriously considering a nursing degree now. Anybody know what we could do with an Associates in Nursing Degree? I looked up some of the degrees, but the nursing stuff is confusing with all the different abbreviations. We'd like to leave in 2yrs 9mos so we'd only be able to complete about 75-90 credits. Which leaves us with an Associates in Nursing + the RN test. Is it pretty much guaranteed you will be given a HSMP or equivalent with a nursing degree? How deep into the degree do you need to start with?

Thanks alot as usual everyone. This is very important to the both of us and it is something we are very serious and fully decided on (moving and living in UK.)

[archigabe]

It would be nice if you guys can work something out
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=18617

[Gattaca]

^^ - Haha yeah, definitely. My second choice outside of England is the Northeast, coincidentally the most similar to the UK. I can understand his desires to move there, but still see England as vastly superior! The trading of citizenship would be an awesome concept!

[Gattaca]

Is there a decent demand for trainee solicitors? I was looking at the path of BA in English to LPC to Trainee Solicitor and thought it seemed interesting (and damn well paying.)

[Gattaca]

Does anyone know? We're seriously debating going into the medical field with an Associate in Nursing Degree, but we want to know a little more about what it will yield. We're trying to figure everything out degree wise by 2 weeks when enrollment begins for next semester. So I'm in a crunch for research about degrees for relocating to England.

My girlfriend almost went into nursing to pursue a doctorate and become a clinical doctor, so she'd love it. I on the other hand, wouldn't be exactly happy happy go go about being a nurse, but if it meant a guarantee smooth relocation to England, I would not mind one bit. Afterall, the two of us on nurse salaries should make us pretty comfortable right? I wager I'd be able to go after whatever else I wanted comfortably while working as a nurse. In the USA hospitals fight eachother for nurses, they will offer a nurse a brand new car if she/he will choose their hospital, it's pretty ridiculous. I assume it's somewhat the same over in the UK? In terms of wages and comfort?

[Christophe]

This is all very good to know. I am a little relieved at knowing that you can look for work while on visitor's visa, but you just have to be careful. In general do employers mind doing this? Having you go home for a week or two while they get you a worker's visa?

Unfortunately, employers are generally not very interested in trying to employ people for whom they would need to get a work permit, unless of course the position is a senior one or the person has some particular experience or skills that are scarce. It is not uncommon, when you read the small print, for job descriptions and the like to contain a note to the effect that applicants must have the right to work in the United Kingdom.

And I would seriously caution against announcing to an immigration officer that you are coming to look for work - you are likely to be refused entry. Indeed, there are anecdotal reports of people being turned around when copies of a CV or resumé have been found in their luggage.

But another avenue to think about, perhaps, is to look, in the fulness of time, at taking a job in an international (or a British) company in the US: lots of such companies are quite open to the idea of employees spending time in overseas offices after they have worked for a time in the "home" office.

With your areas of study, publishing might be one area to consider. Publishers are always looking for literate graduates to take on junior editorial and marketing roles with a view to going up the company ladder. And, despite what you might think, the UK remains the heart of the publishing world: more books are published in the UK every year than in any other single country, it is a leading publisher of technical and other journals, and it is a centre of internet publishing and communications as well. London (in particular) and Oxford and Cambridge are the leading centres, but there are publishing houses all over the UK.

[Gattaca]

Dang Christophe. I was a little relieved at hearing you could 'somewhat' look for a job while on VV. I will only have a bachelor's and a few years of experience. Currently, I have 2 yrs of experience at a magazine publishing company.

Can anyone further elaborate on what being in the medical field will do? Or who I can talk to or meet with? I was looking at the British Embassies overseas and found something very close to me. It is only a British Honorary Consulate, and it says they don't handle visas or enquiries...

I wish there was somebody in migration office that I could meet with somehow and say, "tell me what to do over the next three years to get me into your country," haha. There's gotta be something out there for two people ready to devote three years to doing anything to getting into the UK!

[Gattaca]

Can anyone tell me more about :

http://workpermit.com/uk/work_permit/occupations.htm

?

I called that office, it's just one guy that helps distressed British nationals =/.

[sammie121]

Have you been to the UK for a visit at any time?
Your desire to move here scares me......... Maybe you were British in a past life.

[Gattaca]

Have you been to the UK for a visit at any time?
Your desire to move here scares me......... Maybe you were British in a past life.

I think I must have been. The desire has been strong for a very long time.

In fact I have very great, vivid memory and I remember in the 4th grade meeting a kid named Ben that migrated from England. He had an English accent and always brought back white chocolate when he visited. I always envied him and was jealous that he got to go to England all the time. This was when I was about 10 yrs old and knew absolutely nothing about the country and had probably never even seen a picture. It feels innate to me... Hard to explain and I'm sure it sounds naive and arrogant, but I will pursue my goal to no ends.

[Christophe]

Hard to explain and I'm sure it sounds naive and arrogant, but I will pursue my goal to no ends.

Certainly doesn't sound arrogant, but a visit to spend some time in the UK would be a good idea in any case: not for any specific future purpose but just to travel around a bit and to get some idea of how the place really ticks.

[sammie121]

Not arrogant just so much passion about the UK, i just hope it is all you hope for having lived here all my life i guess i don't get the appeal.
Good luck to you though.
Shame you had not fallen in love with a British girl