Spouse visa for Italy

india22 · Post by **india22** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:38 pm

Hi there,

I have stumbled upon this website looking for information on a spouse visa and the info in here seems fantastic (since you can't get it from the Italian Consulate!!)

I would really appreciate it if somebody was able to help me with the following as it's driving me mad!!!

I am Italian, my husband is from Barbados and we live in London.
He has a residency/work permit for the UK valid for 5 years.

What exactly do we need to get him a spouse visa to travel with me to italy?
Does he have to have a bank account and a letter of employment? (tricky as banks keep turning him down as he's only just moved to the Uk and he works for himself from home)
Does he need an invitation letter from my parents in Italy?
Does he need to have travel insurance?
Does he need to have a certain amount of travellers cheques?
Does he need to have a fully paid ticket before we apply?

Is it true that even if we went to France he would still have to apply at the Italian consulate?

Thank you so much in advance.

India

mym · Post by **mym** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:36 pm

india22 wrote:I am Italian, my husband is from Barbados and we live in London.
He has a residency/work permit for the UK valid for 5 years.

What exactly do we need to get him a spouse visa to travel with me to italy?

Read http://ec.europa.eu/commission_barroso/ ... _ec_en.pdf

Prawo · Post by **Prawo** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:23 pm

If he has a national UK rp and not the residence card meant in art. 10 of directive 2004/38/EC he will still need a Schengen visa.
This he should get free, multiple entry valid for 90 days.
The only thing he has to present is the marriage certificate, your UK residence card and your passport. And explain you are traveling together.

Do the Italians make him a problem, he can apply at any other Schengen state.
If he chooses the Dutch embassy, I can help him out in case of problems.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:18 am

india22 wrote:He has a residency/work permit for the UK valid for 5 years.

Does he have the specific "Residence Card" which is issued to spouses of EU citizens?

india22 · Post by **india22** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:13 am

Hi, Thank you both for your replies.

He has the 5 residency card issued to spouses of EU citizens.
I do not have a residency card (although I work in the UK and have lived here for 14 years), would that be a problem?

Thanks again

India

india22 · Post by **india22** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:21 am

sorry, one more question....don't we need paid tickets in order to apply for a schengen visa?

thanks

mym · Post by **mym** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:51 pm

india22 wrote:sorry, one more question....don't we need paid tickets in order to apply for a schengen visa?

thanks

No.

As I said, read http://ec.europa.eu/commission_barroso/ ... _ec_en.pdf

india22 · Post by **india22** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:37 pm

Hi again.

I really appreciate your replies.
I just wanted to let you know that I have spoken to an immigration controller in Italy and they have confirmed that they wouldn't let my husband into the Country without a Visa because the UK is not part of the Schengen.

It would appear that we still need a visa and to get that I think we need to produce:
1 form
2 passport pictures
marriage certificate issued in italy
his passport + residence card
my passport.

We won't need to produce:
Paid travel tickets and hotel
Travellers cheques/cash
Travel Insurance
Employee letter
Bank statement
Invitation letter from Italy
Letter from Italy stating where we will be staying

Can anybody please confirm that that's the case?

Also the Italian Consulate works on a appointment system and the first appointment we can get is in 6 weeks. Do you know if they have a "fast track" for italian nationals and their spouse or if we can even just turn up?

Cheers

India

mym · Post by **mym** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:36 pm

india22 wrote:Hi again.

I really appreciate your replies.
I just wanted to let you know that I have spoken to an immigration controller in Italy and they have confirmed that they wouldn't let my husband into the Country without a Visa because the UK is not part of the Schengen.

They either lied, or did not know he has a residence card.

It would appear that we still need a visa and to get that I think we need to produce:
1 form
2 passport pictures
marriage certificate issued in italy
his passport + residence card
my passport.

Can anybody please confirm that that's the case?

To get a schengen visa for a non-eea partner, yes.

But as he has a residence card for the UK you DO NOT NEED a visa.

This is EU law, nothing to do with Schengen.

As I keep saying, read http://ec.europa.eu/commission_barroso/ ... _ec_en.pdf

Italy has now implemented Directive 2004/38/EC into it's national law as well and you will find http://www.poliziadistato.it/pds/ps/imm ... 04_ter.pdf
useful too.

Also the Italian Consulate works on a appointment system and the first appointment we can get is in 6 weeks. Do you know if they have a "fast track" for italian nationals and their spouse or if we can even just turn up?

Their website will give you more info about that than any of us will know.

Prawo · Post by **Prawo** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:57 am

My Italian is not that good anymore

Could you give an indication on what page to look in this document for the visa free travel on the basis of an art. 10 card?

Richard66 · Post by **Richard66** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:05 am

If you are Italian you should be able to gain direct access to your embassy: no appointment necessary.

You should not ask for a Schengen visa, but a visa as familiare al seguito, which is valid for a year.

According to Directive 2004/38/CE you should be able to enter Italy with your husband if he is in possession of the UK residence card.

Italy transposed this Directive as Decreto legislativo 30/2007.

Take a look at www.tuttostranieri.it/forum. In this site you'll find loads of information about all problems Italian.

Take it from me: I live in Italy.

Richard66 · Post by **Richard66** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:53 pm

Also, for how long have you been married? If I remember well, if you live abroad your husband can apply for Italian citizenship after three years.

india22 · Post by **india22** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:01 pm

Hi there,

thanks again for all your help.

We have been married only 7 months so we have a looooong way to go before he can apply for an Italian passport. I thought it was 4 years after the marriage had been registered in Italy (and it was registered only yesterday as the stupid bureaucracy lost us 7 months - our marriage certificate left with the italian consulate in Barbados has travelled for 7 months to Caracas, Rome, London and finally to where it was supposed to go in Sicily!!!!!)

By the way, the consulate in London has finally replied to one of my emails anc confirmed what we need for his visa.

They are still adamant that he needs one so I think....better safe than sorry, we better apply for a "familiare al seguito" visa hoping that they give him a year multiple entry one.
It seems stupid considering we don't need one as per Directive 2004/38/CE but what can I say...I don;t really want to risk flying all the way to Italy only to be turned back by some ignorant police men!

Richard66 · Post by **Richard66** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:05 pm

Show this to the Italian consulate:

Decreto Legislativo 30/2007:

Art. 5.
Diritto di ingresso
1. Ferme le disposizioni relative ai controlli dei documenti di
viaggio alla frontiera, il cittadino dell'Unione in possesso di
documento d'identita' valido per l'espatrio, secondo la legislazione
dello Stato membro, ed i suoi familiari non aventi la cittadinanza di
uno Stato membro, ma in possesso di un passaporto valido, sono
ammessi nel territorio nazionale.

2. I familiari non aventi la cittadinanza di uno Stato membro sono
assoggettati all'obbligo del visto d'ingresso, nei casi in cui e'
richiesto. Il possesso della carta di soggiorno di cui
all'articolo 10 in corso di validita' esonera dall'obbligo di munirsi
del visto.

3. I visti di cui al comma 2 sono rilasciati gratuitamente e con
priorita' rispetto alle altre richieste.

4. Nei casi in cui e' esibita la carta di soggiorno di cui
all'articolo 10 non sono apposti timbri di ingresso o di uscita nel
passaporto del familiare non avente la cittadinanza di uno Stato
membro dell'Unione europea.

5. Il respingimento nei confronti di un cittadino dell'Unione o di
un suo familiare non avente la cittadinanza di uno Stato membro,
sprovvisto dei documenti di viaggio o del visto di ingresso, non e'
disposto se l'interessato, entro ventiquattro ore dalla richiesta, fa
pervenire i documenti necessari ovvero dimostra con altra idonea
documentazione, secondo la legge nazionale, la qualifica di titolare
del diritto di libera circolazione.

Take note that the Cassazione has passed judgement where it made clear that the marriage of Italians aborad is valid from the moment it is celebrated, if it was done in accordance with the national laws of the country where it was celebrated.

Richard66 · Post by **Richard66** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:14 pm

Add this article to the cart:

Art. 23.
Applicabilita' ai soggetti non aventi la cittadinanza
italiana che siano familiari di cittadini italiani
1. Le disposizioni del presente decreto legislativo, se piu'
favorevoli, si applicano ai familiari di cittadini italiani non
aventi la cittadinanza italiana.

You can read the whole decree here:

http://www.stranieriinitalia.it/news/co ... ar2007.doc

india22 · Post by **india22** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:15 pm

wow, that's great news!!

looks like I will need to go to the Visa office of the Italian Consulate and show them this whole thread so make them see sense!!

Richard66 · Post by **Richard66** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:19 pm

I'd take the decree: better.

Post by **Directive/2004/38/EC** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:10 am

india22 wrote:looks like I will need to go to the Visa office of the Italian Consulate and show them this whole thread so make them see sense!!

Remember that the job of the visa office is to give out visas. They do not get punished if they tell you you need a visa and you really don't. They may get punished if they say you do not need a visa, but you do when you get to the border.

They may not know or care about the exact entry requirements on the ground, which is in any case implemented by a VERY different section of the government (usually the police).

So by all means try to educate the visa section, but they might not be very receptive.

Richard66 · Post by **Richard66** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:15 pm

Inform yourself well: there are many ways you can put pressure on your consulate. They Italian Republic places a whole lot of legal instruments in order to make your rights respected. Did you visit that site I mentioned? There you'll find a petition ready in which all is laid out clear and if you send it to the consulate, they will see they are dealing with one who knows her rights. Unless you put pressure on the consulate, demand to know the names of the people who are dealing with your application, demand them to show you the laws that oblige your husband to obtain a visa, they will trample on you.

I once had a tough telephone discussion with a member of staff of the Italian consulate in Moscow, who was accusing my (now) wife of submitting a forged document (a fidejussione) from a bank. I can tell you the visa was ready two days later!

india22 · Post by **india22** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:53 pm

Hi Richard,

thanks for your replies (on both websites!).

I'm ashamed to admit that these people are wearing me down....
I think we will just have to apply for a familiare al seguito visa.

They are absolutely unbelievable.
Look at the emails we exchanged.....confusing or what???

P.S.
before I go - my husband doesn't need travel insurance does he???

Cheers
India

Gentili Signori,

Sono una cittadina Italiana coniugata con Barbadiano viviamo a Londra (io sono registrata all'AIRE) e lui ha la "residency card per 5 anni".
Vorremmo andare insieme in Italia e Vi pregherei di confermare che le informazioni che ho a riguardo "spouse holiday visa" siano corrette.
Vi prego di non riferirmi al sito internet in quanto le informazioni a riguardo non sono chiare per niente.

Per poterlo portare in Italia e' vero che servono solo:
Il suo passaporto con permesso di soggiorno nell'UK Il mio passaporto L'estratto di matrimonio emesso dal mio ultimo comune di residenza in Italia
Un modulo compilato
2 foto formato passaporto
Piu' fotocopie di tutti I documenti

Serve prenotare un appuntamento o possiamo presentarci al Consolato?
Io devo essere presente?

Mi potete inoltre cortesemente confermerare che I seguenti documenti NON sono necessari?
Paid travel tickets and hotel
Travellers cheques/cash
Travel Insurance
Employee letter
Bank statement
Invitation letter by my mum in Italy
Letter from Italy stating where we will be staying

Mi rendo conto che riceverete milioni di email come questo e che non avete tempo di rispondere a tutti. E' per questo che ho scritto tutte le informazioni per cui potere anche limitarvi ad usare questo stesso email e rispondere "si/no" affianco alle mie domande.

Vi ringrazio sentitamente in anticipo.
-------------------

Gentile Signora

Please check the answers at the bottom of your questions.

Regards
Visa Office

Per poterlo portare in Italia e' vero che servono solo:
Il suo passaporto con permesso di soggiorno nell'UK Il mio passaporto L'estratto di matrimonio emesso dal mio ultimo comune di residenza in Italia Un modulo compilato
2 foto formato passaporto
Piu' fotocopie di tutti I documenti
SI E' VERO.

Serve prenotare un appuntamento o possiamo presentarci al Consolato? NO, PUOI VENIRE DA LUNEDI A VENERDI DALLE 9 ALLE 12.
Io devo essere presente? NO.

Mi potete inoltre cortesemente confermerare che I seguenti documenti NON sono necessari? I SEGUENTI DOCUMENTI NON SONO NECESSARI.
Paid travel tickets and hotel
Travellers cheques/cash
Travel Insurance
Employee letter
Bank statement
Invitation letter by my mum in Italy
Letter from Italy stating where we will be staying

------------------
Gentili Signori,

Grazie ancora per il vostro email.

Diverse persone esperte in materia di immigrazione mi hanno fatto notare che a seguito del decreto del 27 Marzo 2007 (Directive 2004/38/EC -
allegato) un familare di un cittadino Italiano in possesso di un permesso di soggiorno in un paese Europeo (nel nostro caso
l'Inghilterra) ha diritto alla liberta' di movimento all'interno dei paesi dell'Unione Europea e assume quindi gli stessi diritti di un cittadino europeo.

Italy has now implemented Directive 2004/38/EC into it's national law please see:

http://www.poliziadistato.it/pds/ps/imm ... ettiva_382
004_ter.pdf
http://ec.europa.eu/commission_barroso/ ... 4_38_ec_en.
pdf

In pratica, sembra che, sebbene L'inghilterra non faccia parte del trattato Schengen, mio marito non abbia bisogno di nessun visto per accompagnarmi in vacanza in Italia, Francia Spagna, Germania etc etc

Potete cortesemente confermare se questo sia il caso?

----------------------------------------
Dear Sir / Madam :

Foreign citizens resident in England and married to Italian Citizens do need the visa.

To apply for a visa you need to book an APPOINTMENT through our BOOKING SYSTEM (Ph. Nr. : 09065 540 707), or through our ON-LINE BOOKING SYSTEM available at the web-site : www.conslondra.esteri.it, which is working 24 hours ( see our WEB PAGE for VISA-FORMS, DOCUMENTS, REQUIREMENTS, TYPES OF VISAS etc. : www.conslondra.esteri.it and www.esteri.it ).

Please be informed that there is no booking by fax or post.

Each applicant must apply PERSONALLY at the Consulate ( unlesss you are married to a EU citizen ).
Our address is : Consulate General of Italy - Visa Section, 136 Buckingham Palace Road, London SW1W 9SA.
Office Hours : Monday to Friday 9-12.

It is not allowed to mail visas / passports to applicants.

Please be informed that in order to apply for a visa, your passport and your residence permit in the UK must be valid at least three months before the returning date of your trip.

Applicant must be in possession of U.K. RESIDENCE PERMIT. Therefore we do not accept visa applications by persons in the U.K. as "tourists".

We need at least 2-working days to process your visa ( in some cases, even longer, please visit ww.conslondra.esteri.it for the list of nationalities that require more days).

Visa must be paid in CASH only and only in BRITISH POUNDS.

Current Visa Fee is Â£ -41.00- ( Free of charge if a EU citizen's spouse ).

IN ORDER TO OBTAIN A VISA YOU NEED TO SUBMIT WITH YOUR APPLICATION THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTS 1. valid passport ; 2. residence permit in the UK. ; 3. 1- colour, recent, passport size, photo ; 4. return flight tickets ; 5. hotel reservation OR a letter of invitation by your host in
Italy signed by him and with a photocopy of his valid I.D.
or his residence permit in Italy if non-EU-citizen , 6. a reference letter in original by your employer, school
or University ;
7. your last three months bank statements ; 8. Travel Insurance.

Please be informed that any supporting document might be requested during your visa interview.

For any additional information please consult our Web-Site at : www.conslondra.esteri.it or www.esteri.it.

Best Regards
Visa Section.

------------------------------------

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thanks for your reply.
Unfortunately your latest answer pretty much conflicts with you first where you confirmed that a foreign citizen married to an Italian does NOT need to book an appointment to obtain a visa, does NOT need the following documents :
return flight tickets
hotel reservation OR a letter of invitation by your host in Italy signed by him and with a photocopy of his valid I.D. or his residence permit in Italy if non-EU-citizen a reference letter in original by your employer, school or University ; your last three months bank statements Travel Insurance.

Also visas to spouse of EU citizens should be free.

Please read your own answers to my questions (at the bottom of this email) and reconfirm.

---------------------------------------------------

Dear Madam

As your husband is Italian you don't need to book an appointment, if he was from any other European Country you were have to book an appointment.
You can come to our office from Monday to Friday 9am to 12noon.
Our address is: 136 Buckingham Palace Road, SW1W 9SA.

You need to bring us:
- Your Passport,
- Your husband's Passport,
- Marriage Certificate, and
- Travel Heath Insurance.
Please note that you and obviously your husband have to be registered in AIRE (department in charge for the registration of all the Italians living abroad).
In case you got Marriage outside UK or Italy you have to go to the Embassy from the Country where your Marriage Certificate was issued and have it stamped by their High Commission in London.

Best Regards
Visa Office

Richard66 · Post by **Richard66** » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:38 pm

Hello India, , I had prepared a reply for you, but something went wrong and I lost the answer. I need to sign off now, but I'll send you the reply tomorrow, because I'll need to write it again.

Prawo · Post by **Prawo** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:12 am

Annoying.
But anyway a lot of for for the European Commission.
Do write them a complaint.

Richard66 · Post by **Richard66** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:28 am

I'll try again.

As an Italian citizen you have immediate access to your embassy. You do not need to book any appointment. Just show up.

Have you sent them a fax? A fax to the Consul? You probably can find his name on the Embassy site.

This is Article 10, paragraph 2 of REGULATION (EC) No 562/2006 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 15 March 2006
establishing a Community Code on the rules governing the movement of persons across borders

(Schengen Borders Code):

2. The travel documents of nationals of third countries who
are members of the family of a Union citizen to whom Directive
2004/38/EC applies, but who do not present the residence card
provided for in Article 10 of that Directive, shall be stamped on
entry or exit.

You see, this makes direct mention to the RESIDENCE CARD and to Directive 2004/38/EC. Your husband has that.

Consider the Italian law, Decreto Legislativo 30/2007, article 5:

Art. 5.
Diritto di ingresso
1. Ferme le disposizioni relative ai controlli dei documenti di
viaggio alla frontiera, il cittadino dell'Unione in possesso di
documento d'identita' valido per l'espatrio, secondo la legislazione
dello Stato membro, ed i suoi familiari non aventi la cittadinanza di
uno Stato membro, ma in possesso di un passaporto valido, sono
ammessi nel territorio nazionale.
2. I familiari non aventi la cittadinanza di uno Stato membro sono
assoggettati all'obbligo del visto d'ingresso, nei casi in cui e'
richiesto. Il possesso della carta di soggiorno di cui
all'articolo 10 in corso di validita' esonera dall'obbligo di munirsi
del visto.
3. I visti di cui al comma 2 sono rilasciati gratuitamente e con
priorita' rispetto alle altre richieste.
4. Nei casi in cui e' esibita la carta di soggiorno di cui
all'articolo 10 non sono apposti timbri di ingresso o di uscita nel
passaporto del familiare non avente la cittadinanza di uno Stato
membro dell'Unione europea.
5. Il respingimento nei confronti di un cittadino dell'Unione o di
un suo familiare non avente la cittadinanza di uno Stato membro,
sprovvisto dei documenti di viaggio o del visto di ingresso, non e'
disposto se l'interessato, entro ventiquattro ore dalla richiesta, fa
pervenire i documenti necessari ovvero dimostra con altra idonea
documentazione, secondo la legge nazionale, la qualifica di titolare
del diritto di libera circolazione.

Apparently the Italians want to believe the only valid residence cards are those issued by Schengen states, but this is not true.

About the validity of your marriage in Italy:

Secondo la giurisprudenza della Suprema Corte infatti, in linea di principio, i matrimoni celebrati allâ€™estero tra italiani e stranieri hanno immediata validitÃ nel nostro ordinamento qualora risultino celebrati secondo le forme previste dalla legge straniera[*]; la loro trascrizione in Italia assume valore meramente certificativo.

Take a look at this link. If you want to get a visa, do try this procedure.

http://www.tuttostranieri.it/forum/topi ... PIC_ID=221

Adapt that letter for your needs, mention the new Directive and the Italian law, mention the Residence card and so on.

You might mention you are planning to settle in Italy. Just "change your mind" after your holiday!

It is absolutely not true that it takes two or three days do issue the visa. The Embassy only wants to throw sand in your eyes and gain time. Don't let them! Show them who you are and make your rights respected! They usually respond to this approach, because they DO get into trouble.

Also remember your husband is no longer a "third-country national", but the "third country family member of an EU citizen". This makes a lot of difference.

india22 · Post by **india22** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:11 pm

thank you for that - very helpful as usual.

have a good week-end

India

Richard66 · Post by **Richard66** » Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:17 pm

I try to help!

Also take a look at the Italian law for family members. Whichever is more favourable, Italian law or the implementation of the directive, applies in your case.

You took, have a good weekend!

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