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Directive 2004/38/EC travel to spain

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danie100uk
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Directive 2004/38/EC travel to spain

Post by danie100uk » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:36 pm

Hi
Booked holiday to travel to Spain in 17 days with my Chinese wife for a holiday. I had assumed we could travel WITHOUT schengen visa because of 2004/38/EC.

My wife has a Spouse Resident Permit Biometric Card issued by HO last year.

The Spanish Embassy website states

IMPORTANT NOTICE: Under Directive 2004/38/EC and according to Real Decreto 240/2007, 16 February, Family members of an EU/EEA National in possession of a valid UK Residence Card are not required of a visa to enter Spain when travelling with the EU/EEA National or joining him/her in Spain. Otherwise, a visa will be still required (Real Decreto 1161/2009, 10th July 2009). For spouses and/or children of Spanish Nationals the above condition applies providing that the marriage and/or birth is registered according with the Spanish Civil Register (original Libro de Familia). Please note that the UK Residence Permit must state literally that the holder is a family member of an EU/EEA National, if not, a visa is required under the following conditions:

Due to awful service from the Spanish Embassy in London previously she has emailed them to check she doesn't require a Visa and sent scanned documents of her RP, passport and our marriage cert.

They replied:
Dear Sir/Madam,
Thank you for your email to the Joint Visa Application Centre Helpdesk in London. You do need a visa as you hold spousal bio-metric card not the Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National.

I checked with UKBA. There is NO other residency card or other relevant document! It says RESIDENCE PERMIT on it FFS! I'm convinced the schengen office havent a clue. I am minded to go to the airport with all our documents and print outs of 2004/38/EC and ignore the office as time is short and I think we have complied.
Any advice please???

ca.funke
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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC travel to spain

Post by ca.funke » Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:12 am

Hi danie100uk,

it´s important to know your nationality.

Whatever your answer, I´m convinced you´re allowed to go without visa as long as you are an EU-national:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 335#247335

If you (try to) travel, please give feedback about how it went!

Rgds, Christian

86ti
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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC travel to spain

Post by 86ti » Wed Jun 08, 2011 8:09 am

danie100uk wrote:I checked with UKBA. There is NO other residency card or other relevant document! It says RESIDENCE PERMIT on it FFS!
Yes, there is.

Image.

That's the one the Directive and the Real Decreto is referring to. A possible alternative is described in Christian's link.

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC travel to spain

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:12 pm

danie100uk wrote:Due to awful service from the Spanish Embassy in London previously
There are 27 other EU countries you can visit, and thus avoid having to deal with the Spanish embassy in London.

danie100uk
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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC travel to spain

Post by danie100uk » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:31 pm

Yes, there is.
No there isn't. This was the old system:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/emplo ... cking-brp/

"On 25 November 2008 the UK Border Agency changed the way it issues permission to stay (grants of leave to remain) in the United Kingdom. Biometric Residence Permits replace the vignettes (or stickers) previously placed in passports. This only applies to foreign nationals of countries outside the European Economic Area who are granted leave to remain in the United Kingdom."

The scan is of passport vignette pre Nov 2008.

My issue is my wife's UK biometric resident permit says 'Spouse/Partner Leave to Remain' and not the wording 'family member of EEA national' which the Spanish and French embassies say must be stated on the permit. Why does the UK RP not have this exact wording or why the embassies insist on it if the Uk RP does say exactly this? This discrepancy is worrying

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC travel to spain

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:37 pm

danie100uk wrote:My issue is my wife's UK biometric resident permit says 'Spouse/Partner Leave to Remain' and not the wording 'family member of EEA national' which the Spanish and French embassies say must be stated on the permit. Why does the UK RP not have this exact wording or why the embassies insist on it if the Uk RP does say exactly this? This discrepancy is worrying
If you were from another EU country (say Germany) and were exercising your EU treaty rights in the UK, then your wife would have something called a "Residence Card for the family member of an EEA citizen". This is (in the UK) put as a vignette into her passport.

Since your wife is on a spouse visa, (and since you are British and are not working outside of the UK), you wife has received the correct UK-issued biometric ID card. But this is not what the Spanish (and most other EU countries) want to see to allow visa free travel.

danie100uk
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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC travel to spain

Post by danie100uk » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:58 pm

[/quote]
If you were from another EU country (say Germany) and were exercising your EU treaty rights in the UK, then your wife would have something called a "Residence Card for the family member of an EEA citizen". This is (in the UK) put as a vignette into her passport.

Since your wife is on a spouse visa, (and since you are British and are not working outside of the UK), you wife has received the correct UK-issued biometric ID card. But this is not what the Spanish (and most other EU countries) want to see to allow visa free travel.[/quote]

Guru thank you its making more sense. There is voluntary passport sticker for those Non EEA persons coming to the UK with EEA spouse. This passport vignette is no longer issued to resident spouses of UK citizens. I see the confusion but
1. I cannot get the vingette
2. Will I be able to travel with my wife?
This is a right b*lls up. The Shengen agency has not emailed me after I told them of the UK RP change

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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC travel to spain

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:16 pm

danie100uk wrote:There is voluntary passport sticker for those Non EEA persons coming to the UK with EEA spouse. This passport vignette is no longer issued to resident spouses of UK citizens.
Don't worry about it, but this "Residence Card" never was issued to resident spouses of UK citizens.
danie100uk wrote:2. Will I be able to travel with my wife?
Yes of course. You can either get a visa for her or (if you decide it makes sense) travel without a visa.

When do you travel?

Marcus Samuel
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Post by Marcus Samuel » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:08 pm

Hi, i am guessing you are an EU national. If so, then you are well within your rights to travel to any EU country without any permits.

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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC travel to spain

Post by 86ti » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:42 pm

danie100uk wrote:
Yes, there is.
No there isn't. This was the old system:

[...]

The scan is of passport vignette pre Nov 2008.
Well, good to see that this has been clarified for you by now. The scan is indeed what it says on it, i.e. a "Residence Card for the family member of an EEA citizen". The design may have changed slightly since 2008 but, nonetheless, is still issued.

rogels
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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC travel to spain

Post by rogels » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:08 pm

THE AIRLINE STAFF IS CORRECT WHEN REFUSING TRAVEL TO FAMILY MEMBERS. THEY ALWAYS SHOULD HEVE VALID PASSPORT IN ADDITION TO
RESIDENT CARD OR OF UE FAMILY RESIDENT CARD
Timatic shows PASSPORT holders regulations only.
resident card is NOT a travel document[/b]

ca.funke
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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC travel to spain

Post by ca.funke » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:18 pm

rogels wrote:THE AIRLINE STAFF IS CORRECT WHEN REFUSING TRAVEL TO FAMILY MEMBERS. THEY ALWAYS SHOULD HEVE VALID PASSPORT IN ADDITION TO
RESIDENT CARD OR OF UE FAMILY RESIDENT CARD
Timatic shows PASSPORT holders regulations only.
resident card is NOT a travel document[/b]
Hi rogels,

what you write here is simply not correct AND has nothing to do with the original question.

Why are you pasting >>the same<< into several threads?

Regards,
Christian

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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC travel to spain

Post by shyshiny » Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:10 pm

I am British, my wife is Filipino, she has indefinite leave to remain under pre-financial restrictions on non EU spouses. I have travelled twice within the EU with my wife, both times without a schengen and both times succesfully. The first time in about 2010 to Barcelona. We waited at the back of the queue before presenting both our passports and residency card and I stated that this was my wife and she was travelling with me. The passport control officer looked at it, gave us a cursory glance and then allowed us through without question or any word.
The second time I travelled without a schengen was in August 2014 to Lisbon, Portugal. I had a folder with the EEC directive of freedom of movement official directive as long as you can prove your wife is a family member. I had our marriage certificate as evidence of our marriage. The directive states that as long as you can satisfy border immigration of these requirements then they have either let you in or issue a schengen on the spot. Border control can only refuse you entry if you pose a threat to national security or on grounds of health or that it is not in the national interest to admit you. This time I used the exact same method, this is my wife, she is travelling with me. The official said that my wifes biometric card and her passport did not have the vignette stamp stating she was my wife or the official entry stamp into the UK as a fiancee so I passed our marriage certificate across the counter but this was irrelevant evidence to this official and he took us to a waiting area for further investigation. We waited for about 30 minutes and I could see the officials in the office looking at our documentation in a state of confusion. They didn`t appear to know what to do with us. A border official resembling a bad tempered Jose Morinio (Chelsea footie manager)then presents himself and says that we do not have the correct schengen visa. I reply that she is my wife, a UK resident and this is not necessary. The official then says that Portugal is a beautiful country, I agree, sensing that he is having a very bad day and it is better to sweeten him politely at this point. I point out that the airline in the UK (Easyjet) allowed us to travel after checking my wifes residency status and the official says that he could send us back and fine the airline for allowing travel without sufficient documentation. He then states that his word is final and he could send us back, but it is a lot of effort and not really that important so this time he is allowing us to enter but in future we must have the schengen stamp. A female immigration officer then escorts us to passport control and explains that we need the biometric card to state that my wife is a family member and we must apply to get the wording changed to avoid this situation in future. But of course there is only one status for spouses on a biometric card when they have ILR to my understanding.
Now I have three points to make for anyone wishing to test the EEC freedom of movement directive.
1) Be fully prepared with all the evidence of your partners status, marriage certificates and entry stamps in old passports stating there fiancee visa into UK.
2) Be certain that you and your partner can remain calm and not shocked at being put to one side at immigration control. You have to want to do what I did, know your rights and be prepared to stand your ground and hit the red button if they try to throw you out, but you have to do so with intelligence and a calm cool persona or it can ruin your holiday with the shock of the experience.
3) Immigration is a hot issue all over the EU now and you will experience different border policies in different countries. It is not a level playing field and you won`t find the rules applied correctly everywhere. It became evident to me that my wifes biometric card is merely a novelty piece of plastic at Lisbon airport and held no real relevance. The UK has issued these things but failed to communicate the relevance of the bio card to other countries. This was my instinct through our experience. So that is two tests and two wins for freedom of movement. I hope this helps others who wish to travel this way.

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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC travel to spain

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:29 pm

shyshiny, This is a great summary posting. Thanks! You might specifically want to be aware of the ECJ case MRAX, from which the right to enter (even if you do not have a required visa) comes. See http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/

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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC travel to spain

Post by pragneshmpatel » Mon May 11, 2015 12:31 pm

Hi ,
I am in similar situation. I hold british passport & my wife has indian passport. she has got ILR BRP card. And we want to travel to czech republic very soon. Does she need visa? http://www.mzv.cz/london/en/visa_and_co ... o_not.html - according to link here it shows you can travel without schezen visa.

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