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Why does it take so long to process an application?

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

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MrBrilliant
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Why does it take so long to process an application?

Post by MrBrilliant » Wed May 13, 2015 7:57 am

Does anyone have any idea why it takes so long to process a naturalization application?

Very rarely in the world does it take an otherwise advanced nation months/years to process a few pages of paperwork.

Yes, I know, sometimes extra "background checks" are necessary, but how long does that really take? Whatever they're doing should be primarily a few database checks. Even if they have to write to several agencies, contact your bank and look through your bank statements, call the NSA to look through your email, etc. etc., this can be done in a few days.

What makes this process turn into months or even for some people, over a year?

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Re: Why does it take so long to process an application?

Post by Casa » Wed May 13, 2015 9:15 am

Possibly a combination of too few staff to process over 125,000 applications submitted in 2014. Also staff were moved to help clear the huge backlog of passport applications.
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Re: Why does it take so long to process an application?

Post by MrBrilliant » Wed May 13, 2015 11:09 am

Still doesn't make any sense. The application fee of over £900 a head should more than cover man-hours. If they run out of staff, they should be able to hire more staff. 125,000 applicants is well over £100 million, with that kind of money they should be able to hire a few staffers to help out for that.

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Re: Why does it take so long to process an application?

Post by fwd079 » Wed May 13, 2015 1:02 pm

MrBrilliant wrote: Very rarely in the world does it take an otherwise advanced nation months/years to process a few pages of paperwork.
This reply is second-hand information so please do not take it literally. But one of my friends became Italian National, he says the usual waiting time in Italy to become national after the application is submitted, is two to three years. In light of that he was genuinely surprised when I told my wife got approved within two months, and many here get approval within eight months. His reaction was nothing short of "lucky you" but that could be just a handful of cases he observed there in Italy.
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Re: Why does it take so long to process an application?

Post by Casa » Wed May 13, 2015 1:51 pm

Having live in Spain I can confirm that it takes around two years for a Spanish citizenship application to be processed and in most cases 10 years of residency before qualifying.
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Re: Why does it take so long to process an application?

Post by caffeine » Wed May 13, 2015 1:59 pm

MrBrilliant wrote:Still doesn't make any sense. The application fee of over £900 a head should more than cover man-hours. If they run out of staff, they should be able to hire more staff. 125,000 applicants is well over £100 million, with that kind of money they should be able to hire a few staffers to help out for that.
Actually we don't know what security checks they do. For example if they check your records in home country it could take a lot of time depending on your country.

Also I think its wrong to compare fee charged vs time taken to process. They are not related, its not like we are buying a product. Citizenship is a privilege so at the end of the day case worker has to be satisfied with your application. Yes there are 125,000 applicants a year but staff of 100 is I think quite enough. That's only 1,250 applications per case worker per year.

Sometimes I also think that taking bit more time than they need allows them to monitor any change in circumstances.
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Re: Why does it take so long to process an application?

Post by caffeine » Wed May 13, 2015 2:02 pm

Casa wrote:Having live in Spain I can confirm that it takes around two years for a Spanish citizenship application to be processed and in most cases 10 years of residency before qualifying.
It's similar in US, a friend of mine recently took up US citizenship and in all it took him about year and half. He said because he was from Australia his wait for Green Card wasn't too long but people from some countries have to wait years before they get one.

I think people get worried unnecessarily, if you have followed all the rules there is no reason why you wouldn't get a citizenship. Its just a matter of time..
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Re: Why does it take so long to process an application?

Post by cs95tdg » Wed May 13, 2015 2:17 pm

caffeine wrote:
Casa wrote:Having live in Spain I can confirm that it takes around two years for a Spanish citizenship application to be processed and in most cases 10 years of residency before qualifying.
It's similar in US, a friend of mine recently took up US citizenship and in all it took him about year and half. He said because he was from Australia his wait for Green Card wasn't too long but people from some countries have to wait years before they get one.

I think people get worried unnecessarily, if you have followed all the rules there is no reason why you wouldn't get a citizenship. Its just a matter of time..
Yes, it definitely varies from country to country & I'm sure based on your original country of citizenship & individual immigration history. I too know of a family friend who once explained the complexities around acquiring US citizenship. He said his application was still in progress after 2 years, with stacks of paperwork involved in the process. I know how much paperwork I had to submit for both a long term work visa, and also the immigration history they go into when applying for a simple business visit visa.

Therefore while I appreciate the wait after applying may at times be frustrating, I personally feel the immigration system & naturalisation process in the UK appears very straightforward in comparison.

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Re: Why does it take so long to process an application?

Post by MrBrilliant » Wed May 13, 2015 8:55 pm

Where did I say I'm worried or frustrated?

Your anecdotal experiences illustrate exactly what I'm talking about: Citizenship applications take a long time, both in the UK and elsewhere. My question is, why? It doesn't make sense.

For reference, you can buy a brand new car on finance, and all they do is a credit check which takes seconds. You can get a job in a highly regulated environment (e.g. investment banking) and they will perform a full background check, calling up every single past employer and every school you attended, and this takes about a week. You can get a job teaching kids, and they will again do a full background check and criminal check, which again takes something on the order of days/weeks.

So why does a citizenship application take so long? I'm not complaining, so saying "citizenship is a privilege not a right" is completely off topic and irrelevant. I just wondered if anybody knows why it takes so long.

I don't imagine that one person is sitting there working on your case for 9 months. So obviously they're sitting on it. But is this a bureaucratic inefficiency, or are they actually waiting for something during this time? Are they watching you to see if you behave?

Saying that they have a large number of applicants is also wrong. Like you said yourself, every nation has the same problem: They make you wait months/years to process the application. It's consistently slow everywhere, not just in the UK, so it's not because "they moved everybody to work on UK passport applications".

Furthermore, having a backlog is a temporary problem. Citizenship has taken months/years to process for as long as anyone can remember, so the reason is not "they got more applications than usual this year".

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Re: Why does it take so long to process an application?

Post by ukswus » Wed May 13, 2015 11:29 pm

My understanding is that they sometimes have to contact a number of governmental departments, both in the UK and overseas. Those departments have their own agendas, and may not be in a hurry to respond to the home office. So, comparison with "background checks" agencies is not very fair, in my opinion.

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Re: Why does it take so long to process an application?

Post by waiz89k » Wed May 13, 2015 11:56 pm

If UKVI is doing background checks on every applications then how come one application is taking couple of weeks to go through the whole procedure including all checks and approval as well and other takes 6 months or more. that doesn't make any sense at all.

It is just HO is not bothered and just making money and applications r gathering dusts and waiting to be allocated to the caseworkers. There is an applicant on this forum who's MP got a reply from HO that applicant's check have got expired and we have to do it again in order to complete his application. So if application is allocated to the caseworker and checks r expired then caseworker will order them again and application join the que once again.

In my opinion UKVI has all the checks on their finger tips i.e PNC, Immigration history and may be some checks takes time like HMRC, Councils and other security agencies but I dont think so these checks can take ages. These all checks can be done in matter of days or probably weeks. HO doesn't do back home checks unless it has got to do with war crimes or something extremely serious.

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Re: Why does it take so long to process an application?

Post by MrBrilliant » Thu May 14, 2015 8:58 am

ukswus wrote:My understanding is that they sometimes have to contact a number of governmental departments, both in the UK and overseas. Those departments have their own agendas, and may not be in a hurry to respond to the home office. So, comparison with "background checks" agencies is not very fair, in my opinion.
If that were the case, I think many countries would simply not bother to respond, so the reality would be that these cases would remain in limbo indefinitely, instead of waiting 6 months.

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Re: Why does it take so long to process an application?

Post by ukswus » Thu May 14, 2015 10:02 am

waiz89k wrote:If UKVI is doing background checks on every applications then how come one application is taking couple of weeks to go through the whole procedure including all checks and approval as well and other takes 6 months or more. that doesn't make any sense at all.

It is just HO is not bothered and just making money and applications r gathering dusts and waiting to be allocated to the caseworkers. There is an applicant on this forum who's MP got a reply from HO that applicant's check have got expired and we have to do it again in order to complete his application. So if application is allocated to the caseworker and checks r expired then caseworker will order them again and application join the que once again.

In my opinion UKVI has all the checks on their finger tips i.e PNC, Immigration history and may be some checks takes time like HMRC, Councils and other security agencies but I dont think so these checks can take ages. These all checks can be done in matter of days or probably weeks. HO doesn't do back home checks unless it has got to do with war crimes or something extremely serious.
Again, my understanding is that they do these detailed checks on certain applications fitting a risk profile. If they did this on every single one, the application consideration process would take years, not months.

I understand your frustration, but frankly do not think it's fully justified.

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Re: Why does it take so long to process an application?

Post by blooms » Thu May 14, 2015 10:03 am

MrBrilliant wrote:Where did I say I'm worried or frustrated?

Your anecdotal experiences illustrate exactly what I'm talking about: Citizenship applications take a long time, both in the UK and elsewhere. My question is, why? It doesn't make sense.

For reference, you can buy a brand new car on finance, and all they do is a credit check which takes seconds. You can get a job in a highly regulated environment (e.g. investment banking) and they will perform a full background check, calling up every single past employer and every school you attended, and this takes about a week. You can get a job teaching kids, and they will again do a full background check and criminal check, which again takes something on the order of days/weeks.

So why does a citizenship application take so long? I'm not complaining, so saying "citizenship is a privilege not a right" is completely off topic and irrelevant. I just wondered if anybody knows why it takes so long.

I don't imagine that one person is sitting there working on your case for 9 months. So obviously they're sitting on it. But is this a bureaucratic inefficiency, or are they actually waiting for something during this time? Are they watching you to see if you behave?

Saying that they have a large number of applicants is also wrong. Like you said yourself, every nation has the same problem: They make you wait months/years to process the application. It's consistently slow everywhere, not just in the UK, so it's not because "they moved everybody to work on UK passport applications".

Furthermore, having a backlog is a temporary problem. Citizenship has taken months/years to process for as long as anyone can remember, so the reason is not "they got more applications than usual this year".
In the cases you describe, there are organizations that *want* you to get that brand new car or job. In the case of citizenship, nobody but you really needs it. Government organizations all over the world tend to be inefficient and understaffed. In the US, any issue with your drivers license may involve waiting for hours in a queue. Nobody cares but you.

My guess is the office that processes these applications is understaffed. While my application and yours may be easy to process, we are in a queue, waiting for that troublesome application involving possible acts of bad character, former overstays, tricky marriage or family situations. That is, we are in the supermarket queue with only a box of eggs but somewhere in front of us is an old lady (or several) with a cart full of items that need price checks as they clutch a hundred coupons.

The only incentive they do have is to not pass the 6-month mark because that is what their statistics is based on - what percent of applications are processed within 6 months. Not surprisingly if you look at the December 2014 thread, they are getting approvals now. My guess is because those people have waited 5 months and any further wait will wreck the statistics.

From the processing timelines I see here, I am guessing there are two teams working on our applications. One team tries to process current applications as fast as possible. The other team tries to process the backlog and especially applications near 6 months. My guess is the first team started working in March. If you look at March timelines, some are amazing - with approvals within a few weeks. If I am right, the February 2015 people will have to wait a while longer and watch April people get approved ahead of them....

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Re: Why does it take so long to process an application?

Post by ukswus » Thu May 14, 2015 10:05 am

MrBrilliant wrote:
ukswus wrote:My understanding is that they sometimes have to contact a number of governmental departments, both in the UK and overseas. Those departments have their own agendas, and may not be in a hurry to respond to the home office. So, comparison with "background checks" agencies is not very fair, in my opinion.
If that were the case, I think many countries would simply not bother to respond, so the reality would be that these cases would remain in limbo indefinitely, instead of waiting 6 months.
I am not saying they do this checks on every single applicant. They have to fit a certain risk profile. I also do not see much point in speculating abou "what if" scenarios, as I simply do not have any information about how intergovernmental communication works in such cases.

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Re: Why does it take so long to process an application?

Post by cs95tdg » Thu May 14, 2015 10:52 am

@MrBrilliant, I wasn't suggesting that you personally were frustrated, it was merely an observation made when reading the many comments made by applicants on the timeline threads on this forum.

I don't attemp to comment further as ukswus has eluded I too have no insight to how intergovernmental communication works between the various countries in the world. Ultimately we all form opinions based on information we gather through numerous channels (the press, what the government agencies publish, personal experience, other people's experiences on this forum or those that we know, etc...), but cannot really know for sure what happens & the real reasons as to why it takes so long, unless we have first hand knowledge of the internal processes.

That said, I do appreciate what you are trying to get from this topic is what different views people have on the subject of why this process takes so long.

@Blooms, I like your analogy, it makes sense to me in a way I never really thought of before.

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Re: Why does it take so long to process an application?

Post by fwd079 » Fri May 15, 2015 3:44 pm

Casa wrote:Having live in Spain I can confirm that it takes around two years for a Spanish citizenship application to be processed and in most cases 10 years of residency before qualifying.
Thanks Casa, that means Italy case mentioned by my friend, might be closer to reality.

MrBrilliant wrote: Your anecdotal experiences illustrate exactly what I'm talking about: Citizenship applications take a long time, both in the UK and elsewhere. My question is, why? It doesn't make sense.
I understand the vent, but like it or not, citizenship is a privilege not a right ( page 8 ) so you need to fulfil the requirements of said Govt. whether or not they "make sense" to you, is of no concern of the Govt. :)
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Re: Why does it take so long to process an application?

Post by MrBrilliant » Fri May 15, 2015 6:26 pm

fwd079 wrote:
MrBrilliant wrote: Your anecdotal experiences illustrate exactly what I'm talking about: Citizenship applications take a long time, both in the UK and elsewhere. My question is, why? It doesn't make sense.
I understand the vent, but like it or not, citizenship is a privilege not a right ( page 8 ) so you need to fulfil the requirements of said Govt. whether or not they "make sense" to you, is of no concern of the Govt. :)
Actually you don't understand at all. Maybe read my post again in full, or ask someone to help you read it if you have trouble. As I mentioned, "citizenship is a privilege not a right" is completely off-topic.

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Re: Why does it take so long to process an application?

Post by hellonewhere » Fri May 15, 2015 6:33 pm

MrBrilliant wrote:
fwd079 wrote:
MrBrilliant wrote: Your anecdotal experiences illustrate exactly what I'm talking about: Citizenship applications take a long time, both in the UK and elsewhere. My question is, why? It doesn't make sense.
I understand the vent, but like it or not, citizenship is a privilege not a right ( page 8 ) so you need to fulfil the requirements of said Govt. whether or not they "make sense" to you, is of no concern of the Govt. :)
Actually you don't understand at all. Maybe read my post again in full, or ask someone to help you read it if you have trouble. As I mentioned, "citizenship is a privilege not a right" is completely off-topic.
Dear OP,

Perhaps this is not the correct platform for you to pose your question. As you fully appreciate, majority of the people on this forum neither works for the Home Office nor have a concrete definitive answer to your specific query. If I may remind you that your original post did ask for peoples' ideas.

However as the ideas and opinions based on life experience and theories weren't sufficient for you, if I may direct you to the freedom of information request, whereby, if phrased correctly, your query will get the attention it deserves from the correct department and might offer you a satisfactory response.

Please do update us when you finally receive a satisfactory response.

Kind Regards,
Hellonewhere

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Re: Why does it take so long to process an application?

Post by fwd079 » Sat May 16, 2015 1:08 pm

MrBrilliant wrote:
Actually you don't understand at all. Maybe read my post again in full, or ask someone to help you read it if you have trouble. As I mentioned, "citizenship is a privilege not a right" is completely off-topic.
Interesting reply.
When you ask "Why does it take too long?" Then you need to find the logic of what is a Naturalisation process first, then you need to see what causes delays, then you reach your logical conclusion, instead of closing avenues of thoughts we need to learn first what is Naturalisation. So lets start again, while granting a privilege, someone can do as many checks as they like, and yes, like it or not, they can take as much time as they want.

This is not a visa application where someone's human rights are prone to be violated and hence why, there is no such right of appeal against Naturalisation decisions either.

But since we are all speculating here, let me also say again the Govt can do whatever in their power, to satisfy themselves that they are making the right decision. It is also possible that e.g. the applicant person A crossed a red light and was caught, but forgot to add any DVLA record, or in more complex scenario, person A is living in Manchester and have a referee from USA and another British Citizen but living in Kent. Home Office sends a fact-checking request to other departments, say, Electorole in USA or in Kent in UK or Person A has moved houses quite a lot, so fact-checking is about person A himself, to see if everything checks out.

Continuing the speculation, while such checks are carried out on application deemed "straightforward" and "simple" in the eyes of person A the applicant, it is possible that Caseworker puts the file in "awaiting response" box and moves on to next application in line, deals with that application and moves on, and so on and so forth. Then as-and-when replies come back they are put in "replies" box, and once current file is completed, Caseworker chronologically goes through "replies" box and digs out corresponding file from "awaiting response" box and processes that file further. It is also possible Caseworker puts aside a time of day, or a few days in week, to sift through these "awaiting responses" files.

This above lengthy process is for one (person A's) file only, now expand this to thousands upon thousands of applications received by Home Office, every month.
And, in fact, with a small sample tellings us they have approximately 7,000 applications per month. I'd not worry if we are a "bit delayed" than the time we'd like "our" stuff to be looked at.
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