not sure which route if any

[meringue]

The more I read, the greater my confusion. Maybe someone here can point me in the right direction? I am an EEA national, have been married to a British citizen for 25 years. After living in the UK for the last 20 years , I feel now that the time is right for me to become a British citizen. I have been a stay-at-home Mum, bringing up our three (British) children. The youngest is disabled and I have been his carer for the last 8 years ( receiving carers allowance). I am now getting the impression that there is no route suitable for my application : I have not been working or been available for work, no private health insurance, my husband is British and not an EEA national, I don't need a spouse visa either. Or maybe I misunderstand ........?

[fwd079]

The more I read, the greater my confusion. Maybe someone here can point me in the right direction? I am an EEA national, have been married to a British citizen for 25 years. After living in the UK for the last 20 years , I feel now that the time is right for me to become a British citizen. I have been a stay-at-home Mum, bringing up our three (British) children. The youngest is disabled and I have been his carer for the last 8 years ( receiving carers allowance). I am now getting the impression that there is no route suitable for my application : I have not been working or been available for work, no private health insurance, my husband is British and not an EEA national, I don't need a spouse visa either. Or maybe I misunderstand ........?

Did you read Q5 in this link?

[meringue]

I did, and got more confused. I believe that I exercise treaty rights not simply by living here, but I should, or be available for work, have sufficient funds to support myself, study, have private health insurance, or be retired ... None of them seem to apply to me as my husband has been the earner and I have looked after the family ( apart from some tiny amounts of self employment over the years). So it seems to me that I can't even claim to have exercised treaty rights after 20 years?

[secret.simon]

Because of how long you have been here, it may be much simpler.

From the original post, it seems that you arrived in the UK before 2000 (that is so last century but anyways...).

If you can prove that (the best proof would be the passport that you entered on), it seems that you, as an EEA citizen exercising freedom of movement, would have automatically got ILR on entering the UK under the rules at the time. See Point 8.1of the document.

For the avoidance of doubt, that is ILR under UK Immigration Rules. PR under EEA Regulations was only created in 2006.

So, as you have ILR and are married to a British citizen, you can, in theory, apply for British citizenship straightaway.

[meringue]

Thank you, Secret.Simon. Yes, it is very last century .... but so am I No wonder that I can't find any other cases like mine.

I am still not quite sure as to which route to take: applying as a spouse or as an EEA national. Studying the forms involved, nothing seems to apply to me.
Not sure whether ILR just happens automatically or is some paper that needs to be applied for?
Your interesting link again refers to persons exercising EEA free movement rights: This seems to be connected to working ( or various other activities) and not just to being here, bringing up the children.?? I am not convinced that I am even classed as exercising these rights.

I have also found this - not sure if it is relevant:
Prior to 2 October 2000, citizens of EEA states were deemed to be permanent residents immediately upon taking up residence in the UK to exercise Treaty rights.
The change in the law in 2000 was retroactive. Hence, for example, a French citizen who arrived to work in the UK on 1 July 1986 would have been treated as a permanent resident between that date and 1 October 2000. From 2 October 2000, the status would revert to that of a temporary resident if an application for ILR was not made. On 30 April 2006, with five years' residence exercising Treaty rights accrued, that person regained permanent resident status.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indefinite ... _residence

[fwd079]

Thank you, Secret.Simon. Yes, it is very last century .... but so am I No wonder that I can't find any other cases like mine.

I am still not quite sure as to which route to take: applying as a spouse or as an EEA national. Studying the forms involved, nothing seems to apply to me.
Not sure whether ILR just happens automatically or is some paper that needs to be applied for?
Your interesting link again refers to persons exercising EEA free movement rights: This seems to be connected to working ( or various other activities) and not just to being here, bringing up the children.?? I am not convinced that I am even classed as exercising these rights.

Personally the simplest route I can see for you, is spouse of a British Citizen. For that, since you have not been working but was here lawfully, you need to gain PR/ILR on long residence basis (10 years) and you can do it at any Premium Service Centre and once granted ILR, you can apply for spouse route Naturalisation given that
you satisfy Q1 etc.

I'd await further replies, though.

[vinny]

No point applying for ILR under Long Residence, as that implicitly requires proof that you have been exercising treaty rights for at least 10 continuous years and KOLL. If you could do that, then it's much simpler and cheaper to apply for confirmation of PR, which requires only 5 continuous years' proof of exercising treaty rights.

[fwd079]

No point applying for ILR under Long Residence, as that implicitly requires proof that you have been exercising treaty rights for at least 10 continuous years and KOLL. If you could do that, then it's much simpler and cheaper to apply for confirmation of PR, which requires only 5 continuous years' proof of exercising treaty rights.

Oh, but since she has not been working at all that is why I suggested going through ILR.

But by your links she has to prove she has been working. I guess there is no route for stay-at-home mum of EEA origin? Which sounds illogical to me, so what are we missing?

[blooms]

You can apply for EEA PR without working. It is called "self-sufficient" and you only need to show that you do not need to work because you rely on other financial resources - in this case, the spouse.

Unfortunately, this route also requires you to show that you have had private health insurance for the 5 years you are claiming self-sufficiency.

You might want to check you are not covered by a health plan that your spouse's employer provides. That would satisfy the requirement and you can then get EEA PR immediately. After that, you wait one year and apply for citizenship.

[fwd079]

You can apply for EEA PR without working. It is called "self-sufficient" and you only need to show that you do not need to work because you rely on other financial resources - in this case, the spouse.

Unfortunately, this route also requires you to show that you have had private health insurance for the 5 years you are claiming self-sufficiency.

You might want to check you are not covered by a health plan that your spouse's employer provides. That would satisfy the requirement and you can then get EEA PR immediately. After that, you wait one year and apply for citizenship.

As she wrote in her opening post:

I have not been working or been available for work, no private health insurance, my husband is British and not an EEA national, I don't need a spouse visa either.

I am guessing that unless covered by her husband's insurance, she has to get insured and wait five years perhaps?

[meringue]

Thank you very much to everyone who has commented! On the one hand I am relieved that I am not the only one who is confused. On the other hand it appears that there is no way for me to become a British citizen, despite living here for ages with my British husband, having brought up our British children here. How odd! I never thought that being a stay-at-home Mum was so unusual.

I have had tiny amounts of self employment during these years ( the odd hour of language tuition), documented with annual tax returns ( we are talking maybe £50-200 profit a year). Would this count? It is clearly not enough to claim independent income. I paid NI contributions on this until I started to receive carer's allowance for looking after our youngest child who is disabled.

There is no private health insurance nor a company health insurance through my husband. If I have to spend another 5 years paying for a private insurance before applying, I think I'll just have to leave it.

[fwd079]

I'd not lose hope. I am still waiting for vinny to reply about my question. Lets see.

[meringue]

Thanks, fwd079. I am pleased about any thoughts anyone might have.
Re my mini self-employment over the years: I wonder whether there is a minimum amount one has to earn or whether the business even has to make a profit.
I am also wondering whether legislation that was in place at the time of my moving here permanently would still count even if the law is different now. But as per link from my earlier post, it seems that I had ILR automatically when I moved here before 2000; that was stopped in 2000 and removed retrospectively?

[fwd079]

Thanks, fwd079. I am pleased about any thoughts anyone might have.
Re my mini self-employment over the years: I wonder whether there is a minimum amount one has to earn or whether the business even has to make a profit.
I am also wondering whether legislation that was in place at the time of my moving here permanently would still count even if the law is different now. But as per link from my earlier post, it seems that I had ILR automatically when I moved here before 2000; that was stopped in 2000 and removed retrospectively?

Yes in that case, personally I think it should count, so I'd simply book NCS and write a cover letter detailing your immigration history, telling the date you consider yourself to have achieved PR status NCS can then look into your case and advise if its all fine. Then you can take LIUK test and English test etc and submit application. Good luck.

[meringue]

Thanks!
I just phoned the Nationality Helpdesk and was informed that 20 years in the country and 25 years of marriage to a British citizen don't count. Looks like I have to start now with my 5 years of work/self employment. -- not easy with a disabled child ( grown up) to look after.

Since I have been getting carers allowance for looking after him, I stopped paying NI contributions from my very small self employment as I was told, I'd only be paying double ( the carers allowance pays towards NI for me). Apparently that doesn't count towards my position with this naturalisation. Or even permanent residency.

[meringue]

Another thought: the Surinder Singh Route - is this only for non EEA citizen? I am not sure I fully understand it but maybe it applies to our situation:
My British husband and I have lived in the UK for 20 years; before that we lived in my (EU) country for 4 years, before that 1 year in the UK. Would that give me the same rights as if I was married to a EEA national? Or maybe it was too long ago?
Sorry if I misunderstood the whole concept.....

[vinny]

When was this?

[meringue]

Lived in another EEA/EU country 1990-1994.

[Julian11]

Being married to a Brit, would she be able to choose the non-EU-based migration laws, ie, apply for ILR based on the relationship and having had long enough residence in the UK to get ILR based on marriage (despite no marriage visa, the EU passport making that irrelevant), and after gaining ILR, apply for citizenship? ILR is very expensive so it'd be an expensive route, but I think I have read about this as an option for married EU citizens.

[vinny]

I think that Surinder Singh (and Eind) may help you obtain confirmation of PR as a family member.

[meringue]

Thank you , Julian11 and Vinny! I have the feeling that I am falling through all the cracks in the system, and that nothing actually properly applies to me.

Looking forward, I can't see a way: can't work for the foreseeable future because of my caring duties ( for my adult British son; there seems to be no exemption despite of this). I can't see self sufficiency with comprehensive private health insurance as a solution either ( at my age far too expensive, won't cover my many pre-existing conditions, and they never cover GP or emergency .... how would that work??). Anyway, in 5 years' time the goal posts will have been moved again.

Looking back, if Surinder Singh does not apply, I wonder whether 5 continuous years of self-sufficiency can be back-dated to a time when private health insurance was not necessary? Or even to a time when ILR was granted automatically on arrival? Out of 20 years, there should be enough combinations of 5-year-blocks to choose from?

[meringue]

No more opinions, anyone?

Maybe there is a different route : I wonder if I have exercised Treaty Rights after all?
After a good rummage in the attic, I found a forgotten box with big envelopes, each relating to a year of small-scale self employment ( selling cosmetics). This covers the years 1999-2005, containing details of NI payments, self assessments and letters from Revenue and Customs, lots receipts .................... no accountant, no separate business account,too long ago for references from customers.
Question: Is this too long ago? too little income ( a few hundred pounds a year profit)? too little documentation?
How many years would I need, married to a British citizen?

[fwd079]

No more opinions, anyone?

Personally I think this post by vinny is your best bet. Good luck.

[meringue]

Thanks. I was told Surinder Singh is only for non EEA spouses, and stay abroad should have happened very recently - ours was over 20 years ago. Maybe that's wrong?

[Petaltop]

Thanks!
I just phoned the Nationality Helpdesk and was informed that 20 years in the country and 25 years of marriage to a British citizen don't count. Looks like I have to start now with my 5 years of work/self employment. -- not easy with a disabled child ( grown up) to look after.

Since I have been getting carers allowance for looking after him, I stopped paying NI contributions from my very small self employment as I was told, I'd only be paying double ( the carers allowance pays towards NI for me). Apparently that doesn't count towards my position with this naturalisation. Or even permanent residency.

Under the system now, a self suffienct person can't claim benefits like carers allowance etc and they must also have a CSI or their own countries EHIC to pay the NHS, to have a right to reside.

In April 2015, the self employed have to be earning 24 times the national minimum wage each week = £156 per week, to pay NICs each week and be a qualified person with a right to reside and free NHS. Not sure if there was a minimum amount set before that.

Have a look at what vinny suggested. Don't leave it. The NHS brought checks in from April 2015 to start checking who should be billed.