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secret.simon wrote:Earlier thread here for a fuller background into the query
http://www.immigrationboards.com/immigr ... 87024.html
As I understand it, McCarthy simply facilitates travel to the UK for people with EEA residence cards. So far, the UK only accepts German and Estonian (?) residence cards as their document checking processes meet the UK requirements. I don't think McCarthy has actually been implemented into UK legislation but somebody please correct me if that's wrong. In any case, you as a British citizen would still have to provide proof of having shifted your centre of life to the other EU country at the point of applying for a UK residence card.pranjam wrote:Hi,
This is a query I posted in another thread and it seems this might be a more appropriate place for it. As far as I understand currently there are two ways of getting your parents in the UK one is the SSR which has been widely discussed already but which requires you to meet the "Centre of Life" rules.
Is it not possible to get your parents in via the EU article 10 family permit route. This is based on the McCarthy ruling and is explained here on the UK Gov website https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... dence-card
If you get the EU Family permit for you parents by exercising your EU rights in another country you don't have to base your "Centre of life" as such in that country so you can still return to UK on weekends for example.
Once they have entered the country based on the above they can apply for a UK residence card
https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-a-uk-resid ... d/overview
Can someone please comment if this is correct or are there loopholes that I am not aware of
All sorted then.pranjam wrote:Futher proof that this is a much more easier way can be seen here http://britcits.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/ ... uling.html
The McCarthy ruling has been made part of the UK legislation since 6th April so no one with a valid EU Family of an EEA citizen permit can be denied entry to the UK or a subsequent Residence permit application for that matter as per this law.
Once they are in the country they can apply for a UK residence card https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-a-uk-resid ... igibility.ALKB wrote:All sorted then.pranjam wrote:Futher proof that this is a much more easier way can be seen here http://britcits.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/ ... uling.html
The McCarthy ruling has been made part of the UK legislation since 6th April so no one with a valid EU Family of an EEA citizen permit can be denied entry to the UK or a subsequent Residence permit application for that matter as per this law.
So you only have to move to an EU country with your parents and apply for that country's residence card.
You don't have to apply for a residence card in the UK, but in real life terms, on a day-today basis, how easy do you think will it be, if your parents' only documentation for the legality of their stay in the UK is the residence card of another country?
That the centre of life terms are being scrutinised is all well and good but for the time being they stand. Denmark has been getting away with something similar for years and years.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to discourage you, I just think it might be a bit more difficult in practice than on paper.
If you want a UK family permit, you will have to undergo the Surinder Singh route in order for you to qualify as an EEA citizen in the UK....there can be no additional requirements in relation to obtaining any other visa or permit, where the Article 10 Residence Card is genuine, for entry purposes only.
This ruling is of most benefit to those holding a Residence Card and who frequently visit other member states for a short duration;
Not citizenship, but PR.pranjam wrote:claim citizenship after lawful residence of 5 years
You can. But I think you will need UK documentation for day-to-day things like getting NI, opening Bank accounts, etc. If you were to present an Estonian residence card to open a UK bank account, for instance, I'm not sure the bank staff would know what to do next.pranjam wrote:once you enter the country you can reside in it
That is not surprising. Can you provide us with the links to the relevant rules or to other documentation (newspaper articles, etc) that detail the rules?pranjam wrote:UKBA have put in laws to exclude british citizens from this.
I have not been able to find the Annex A which is referred to in the link that I posted. The gov.uk website is very hard to navigate. However from the FOI requests and the experiences of the people it is quite clear the UKBA has once again got discriminatory policies in place against british citizens. If someone can find this Annex A it would be very useful.secret.simon wrote:pranjam wrote:
UKBA have put in laws to exclude british citizens from this.
That is not surprising. Can you provide us with the links to the relevant rules or to other documentation (newspaper articles, etc) that detail the rules?
You may (or may not) be interested in my opinion of what will happen to the Surinder Singh route in two years time.
Not fulfilling the criteria that's applicable to all is not discrimination, it's just not fulfilling the criteria.pranjam wrote:I have not been able to find the Annex A which is referred to in the link that I posted. The gov.uk website is very hard to navigate. However from the FOI requests and the experiences of the people it is quite clear the UKBA has once again got discriminatory policies in place against british citizens. If someone can find this Annex A it would be very useful.secret.simon wrote:pranjam wrote:
UKBA have put in laws to exclude british citizens from this.
That is not surprising. Can you provide us with the links to the relevant rules or to other documentation (newspaper articles, etc) that detail the rules?
You may (or may not) be interested in my opinion of what will happen to the Surinder Singh route in two years time.
I'll give that post a read thanks but like everything else with this EU referendum it's hard to say what will happen.
Agreed. If anything, these are the rules that everybody should be following, not with exceptions for relatives of EEA citizens.I can appreciate the freedom of movement for workers in the Common Market. Not so sure about the freedom of movement of non-EEA family members of British citizens who have popped over to France or Ireland for three months.Wanderer wrote:Not fulfilling the criteria that's applicable to all is not discrimination, it's just not fulfilling the criteria.
If there was a more appropriate way of bringing your parents to your adopted country as there was in the UK before the discriminatory policies were put in place these workarounds would never be needed. The reference to this Annex A is in the link I posted earlier from the freedom of information requestsecret.simon wrote: Agreed. If anything, these are the rules that everybody should be following, not with exceptions for relatives of EEA citizens.I can appreciate the freedom of movement for workers in the Common Market. Not so sure about the freedom of movement of non-EEA family members of British citizens who have popped over to France or Ireland for three months.
Here is a link to the current Immigration Rules. I can't seem to find a relevant Annexe A in it.
Can you report the link that has the reference to Annexe A? Neither of the links in the original post have any reference to an Annexe A..
The fact that the UKBA have not responded to this request and are willing to be taken to court to get a response for this is proof enough that they know they are in the wrong.I would like to clarify something stated in Annex A, at:
"10.It should be noted that this judgment does not affect the
rights of family members of British citizens who have exercised
Treaty rights in another EEA member state under the ‘Surinder
Singh’ judgment. Such persons should continue to be considered
under regulation 9 of the EEA Regulations"
Please clarify whether by the above it is meant that in practice
family members of British citizens, holding an Article 10 Residence
Card issued by an EEA Member State other than Switzerlan, are thus
still required to obtain a UK Family Permit or UK visa, even where
the travel is with or to join their sponsor (British).
That is a bit of leap of logic. There can be many reasons for a delay in the response, from my point of view, to develop a nuanced response taking into account the balance between the legal and political positions.pranjam wrote:The fact that the UKBA have not responded to this request and are willing to be taken to court to get a response for this is proof enough that they know they are in the wrong.
To respond to an earlier post by you, you will be able to bring your parents to the UK if they have an EEA family permit from another EEA country for short trips. But in order to claim PR & citizenship, they will need to prove their stay in the UK for five years. If properly implemented, their passports will not get stamped when traveling within the EU. To prove that they are resident in the UK (something the McCarthy ruling does not give them a right to anyway), they will need to be registered with various organisations (GP, bank, etc). As I mentioned earlier, I doubt they will all recognise all EU family permits. So, their PR may fail on that ground. No PR, no citizenship.pranjam wrote:Yes you are right but I don't intend to have my parents work here all I need is for them to be able to live here and claim citizenship in 6 years hopefully. I do intend to get some professional opinion however and will update when I've had more information.
I assume you mean Alexis Tsipras and I'm pretty sure if there was a referendum on just this topic most people would actually vote against it controlling immigration at the cost of dividing families is not acceptable to all.secret.simon wrote:The rules as regards Adult Dependant Relatives have been created by a democratically elected government and passed by a democratically elected Parliament. It could be argued that it is the will of the British people that has created these rules (I am using Alexis Tsipiris's argument here).
Considering that they have not responded to this even after the information commissioner has asked them to do suggests there is something sinister especially if you look at the other requests which were actually responded to far more promptly.secret.simon wrote:That is a bit of leap of logic. There can be many reasons for a delay in the response, from my point of view, to develop a nuanced response taking into account the balance between the legal and political positions.
You maybe right but its a moot point now since it seems this ruling is not applicable anyway unless one first proves oneself to be a EU citizen by passing the "Centre of Life" rules.secret.simon wrote:To respond to an earlier post by you, you will be able to bring your parents to the UK if they have an EEA family permit from another EEA country for short trips. But in order to claim PR & citizenship, they will need to prove their stay in the UK for five years. If properly implemented, their passports will not get stamped when traveling within the EU. To prove that they are resident in the UK (something the McCarthy ruling does not give them a right to anyway), they will need to be registered with various organisations (GP, bank, etc). As I mentioned earlier, I doubt they will all recognise all EU family permits. So, their PR may fail on that ground. No PR, no citizenship.
Do let us know if you find it, it could come useful later.secret.simon wrote:I will look for the Annex A again, now that I have an idea of what to look for.
It entirely depends on the question you ask.pranjam wrote:I'm pretty sure if there was a referendum on just this topic most people would actually vote against it controlling immigration at the cost of dividing families is not acceptable to all.