Physical presence in UK 3yrs before application received

[LaVeille8]

Hi,

My wife is shortly applying for naturalisation as spouse of British citizen (me) and we have just realised there is one very particular requirement that it appears she has to be very careful to meet.

This is point 1 on page 4 of the Requirements booklet (AN), to quote: "You must have been physically present in England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands on the day 3 years before the application is received by the Home Office. For example if your application is received on 20/1/2015, you should have been physically present in the United Kingdom on 21/1/2012."

She was stamped into the UK on her spouse visa on 20/06/2012, so that is when her 3-yr residence qualifying period starts. However she was absent from the UK on a long holiday from 30/06/2012 until 28/09/2012. Total absences over 3yrs don't exceed 270 days.

My interpretation of the rules is that her application must be received in the narrow window 20/06/2015 - 30/06/2015, or she must wait until the end of September. Just wondering if this is correct.

Also, is this just some random extra rule that they put in place as an additional filter or is there some logic behind it? It would seem they put it in to make sure people didn't apply too early, but worded it such that it also disqualifies people who would otherwise easily satisfy the residence requirement (say they have been here 20 years) but happened to be in (say) France for a couple of days on the particular date 3 years before the Home Office receives the naturalisation application. Intentional?

Lastly, is the date of receipt of the application the day the postman drops the special delivery envelope through the Home Office postbox or should we take into account that they might not acknowledge receipt until a couple of days later when they have opened the envelope? The window is narrow! We are applying through the nationality checking service so it will be them who send the application.

Many thanks!

[sanky_001]

Hi,

My wife is shortly applying for naturalisation as spouse of British citizen (me) and we have just realised there is one very particular requirement that it appears she has to be very careful to meet.

This is point 1 on page 4 of the Requirements booklet (AN), to quote: "You must have been physically present in England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands on the day 3 years before the application is received by the Home Office. For example if your application is received on 20/1/2015, you should have been physically present in the United Kingdom on 21/1/2012."

She was stamped into the UK on her spouse visa on 20/06/2012, so that is when her 3-yr residence qualifying period starts. However she was absent from the UK on a long holiday from 30/06/2012 until 28/09/2012. Total absences over 3yrs don't exceed 270 days.

My interpretation of the rules is that her application must be received in the narrow window 20/06/2015 - 30/06/2015, or she must wait until the end of September. Just wondering if this is correct.


She can submit her application beween 20th and 29th as long as HO receives the application on 30th June 2015. I personally wouldnt take chance and apply on 29th coz Royal Mail sometimes take more than a day. I would apply on 20th.

Also, is this just some random extra rule that they put in place as an additional filter or is there some logic behind it? It would seem they put it in to make sure people didn't apply too early, but worded it such that it also disqualifies people who would otherwise easily satisfy the residence requirement (say they have been here 20 years) but happened to be in (say) France for a couple of days on the particular date 3 years before the Home Office receives the naturalisation application. Intentional?

Lastly, is the date of receipt of the application the day the postman drops the special delivery envelope through the Home Office postbox or should we take into account that they might not acknowledge receipt until a couple of days later when they have opened the envelope? The window is narrow! We are applying through the nationality checking service so it will be them who send the application.

The date of receipt is the date when HO receives the Royal Mail delivery


Many thanks!

Please note that my situation is very similar to yours. I had only 12 days window period in April 2012 when I came on family visa though but came back on a spouse visa in August 2012. However I ve applied for my Citizenship in April 2015 based on physical presence and I ve not exceeded 270 days.

Hope it helps

[theprideofpak]

Hi,

My wife is shortly applying for naturalisation as spouse of British citizen (me) and we have just realised there is one very particular requirement that it appears she has to be very careful to meet.

This is point 1 on page 4 of the Requirements booklet (AN), to quote: "You must have been physically present in England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands on the day 3 years before the application is received by the Home Office. For example if your application is received on 20/1/2015, you should have been physically present in the United Kingdom on 21/1/2012."

She was stamped into the UK on her spouse visa on 20/06/2012, so that is when her 3-yr residence qualifying period starts. However she was absent from the UK on a long holiday from 30/06/2012 until 28/09/2012. Total absences over 3yrs don't exceed 270 days.

My interpretation of the rules is that her application must be received in the narrow window 20/06/2015 - 30/06/2015, or she must wait until the end of September. Just wondering if this is correct.

Also, is this just some random extra rule that they put in place as an additional filter or is there some logic behind it? It would seem they put it in to make sure people didn't apply too early, but worded it such that it also disqualifies people who would otherwise easily satisfy the residence requirement (say they have been here 20 years) but happened to be in (say) France for a couple of days on the particular date 3 years before the Home Office receives the naturalisation application. Intentional?

Lastly, is the date of receipt of the application the day the postman drops the special delivery envelope through the Home Office postbox or should we take into account that they might not acknowledge receipt until a couple of days later when they have opened the envelope? The window is narrow! We are applying through the nationality checking service so it will be them who send the application.

Many thanks!

You did not mention that if your wife entered UK on 20/06/2012 or this is visa stamp date or she was given further leave to remain in the UK. Qualifying period starts from the day she was present in the UK, for example if she arrived in the UK on 20/06/2012 then yes you have a short window of 10 days to apply.
I think this rule is to maintain the continues stay in the country even though if you went away for 3 months after that date.
Date of receipt is the date when home office receives your application, in your case if you send the application on 30th June 2015, your application will be received by HO on the 1st July, your application will be rejected. You have until 28th June (for the safer side) to apply, ideally through NCS and also bearing in mind if your wife is fulfilling other residency requirements. In your case, you should also keep this mind that there can also be issues with the post even though you do special delivery, there can be delays in postage i.e strikes, weather anything like that, so give yourself plenty of time. Good luck

[Casa]

You also have to rely on the NCS sending the application promptly.

[LaVeille8]

Thanks for the replies.

She had been granted a spouse visa abroad where we had both been living in 06/2012. She entered the UK on 20/06/2012 using that visa which her passport stamp of the same date shows (i.e. she was not stamped in as a visitor). I'm a bit confused about leave to enter/remain terminology but that is what happened. She would then have been stamped out 10 days later and we did not return until 3 months later.

It is a funny rule because it means that after you have satisfied the 3-yr qualifying period, you still have to keep track of your absence dates 3 years prior to make sure your application date does not coincide with them. It makes little sense to me but I won't argue.

Agree regarding leaving a bit of a cushion for post/NCS failings.

[CR001]

You can apply on the 20th or 21st, that would give enough time for the application to reach HO. Use NCS at the council to submit as then you get to keep your original documents.

It is a funny rule because it means that after you have satisfied the 3-yr qualifying period, you still have to keep track of your absence dates 3 years prior to make sure your application date does not coincide with them. It makes little sense to me but I won't argue.

One reason could be because some people apply for visas to live and work in the UK and then don't and only use it to visit the UK for brief periods and continue to work and live in their home country, meaning they have very high levels of absences but still want to qualify for British citizenship, a case of 'having their cake and eating it'.

[noajthan]

Hi,

My wife is shortly applying for naturalisation as spouse of British citizen (me) and we have just realised there is one very particular requirement that it appears she has to be very careful to meet.

This is point 1 on page 4 of the Requirements booklet (AN), to quote: "You must have been physically present in England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands on the day 3 years before the application is received by the Home Office. For example if your application is received on 20/1/2015, you should have been physically present in the United Kingdom on 21/1/2012."

...

My interpretation of the rules is that her application must be received in the narrow window 20/06/2015 - 30/06/2015, or she must wait until the end of September. Just wondering if this is correct.

...

Lastly, is the date of receipt of the application the day the postman drops the special delivery envelope through the Home Office postbox or should we take into account that they might not acknowledge receipt until a couple of days later when they have opened the envelope? The window is narrow! We are applying through the nationality checking service so it will be them who send the application.

Many thanks!

Regarding

... requirement to have been physically present in the United Kingdom on a date five (three) years before the date of application (the date of application is defined in Chapter 6)

See section 3 & in particular 3.3 of this UK gov Chapter 18 document:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 141212.pdf

- note the reference to a 2-month window and the possibility of a discretionary "re-declaration".

This is the Chapter 6 of UK gov guidance notes that defines the "date of application":
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 50429_.pdf

-see 6.3.3

Section 3.6 of Chapter 18 explains redeclaration:

When an application form is redeclared, the original application date is superseded by a new application date, which is the date on which the redeclared form is received back in the Home Office. Redeclaration should normally be offered at the outset and the redeclared application returned to await consideration under its new application date.

Obviously it's still less stressful and more certain to apply within the appropriate time window.
In your case the absence was around 3 months so you would still fall outside the two-month window.

If you do use NCS, suggest checking when they actually send applications off to HO;
is it (always) same day, the next day or do they wait for some time & then send application to HO in a batch

[theprideofpak]

Also....
You are not bound to use your local council, if you can't find appropriate appointment, use any other council which have available dates in your favour....

[LaVeille8]

Thank you for the comments.

Re: 'having their cake and eating it', I think the 270 days max absence in 3 years / 90 days in past 1 year, takes care of that. So I am not convinced that is the reason.

The links to the UK gov docs were very informative. Whilst we would rather not rely on discretion and will try to apply within the window, it's interesting that the 2-month leeway is specified as 'either way' (point 3.3. in https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 141212.pdf) so if in the worst case they receive the application only on 30/06/2015 and note the applicant was absent 30/06/2012-28/06/2012, they could exercise discretion in the backwards sense. Also it is good to see that only whole day absences are counted - we flew out early morning of 30/06/2012 so would technically have been absent only from 01/07/2012 inclusive. On the other hand, the above document also refers to presence at the start of the qualifying period which is defined as 'the day after the application date' - point 3.2 - well this would be the end of the period I guess, and the start would presumably be this minus 3 years. This would suggest presence on application date minus 3 years plus 1 day is required, losing us 1 day.

Yes we were going to contact a number of local councils to see which would be the most favourable.

If it looks too tight we would just have to put it on hold until October (when we wouldn't be bound by any windows) which is not the end of the world.

[noajthan]

Thank you for the comments.

...

Yes we were going to contact a number of local councils to see which would be the most favourable.

If it looks too tight we would just have to put it on hold until October (when we wouldn't be bound by any windows) which is not the end of the world.

LaVeille8,
I've learned (to my cost) over past 6 years of dealings with HO for my family that, at each step of the way, it needs to be a rock solid application leaving HO with no wriggle room whatsoever.

You are obviously very organised but something unfortunate like a payment slip up (on HO's side) could put your application date back a week or more (into the 'danger zone').
If not ready to apply at the beginning of next week it seems prudent to hold off until later as you mentioned.

[LaVeille8]

Thank you, that is good advice. Actually we are struggling to get an appointment next week with any NCS, so we may have to wait until autumn anyway.

[chocolateorange88]

that's a shame. I had to wait 10 days for my appointment