First time EU FP at the border + applying for EEA FM

[julianeea]

Hi there,

I'm a Hungarian working in the UK, with a Filipina wife. We applied for her EU FP in Dec. 2014, which was approved and received in Mar. 2015. She's remained in the Philippines during this time, while I work in the UK.

Now, I've saved up enough to be able to bring her to the UK for the next phase of our life. I will fly to the Philippines and the two of us will fly back to the UK together. Just have three questions for you in this regard:

1) At the border, is a first-time entry with an EU FP any different than subsequent entries? I've seen posts in this forum about differing levels of border control scrutiny to EU FP holders. Beyond our passports and basic papers (e.g. marriage certificate), should we bring any other documentation along in our carry-on bags in case they decide to interrogate us? I have all of the evidence that I submitted to the EU FP application saved onto my laptop - but do you think I should also bring some printouts just in case?

2) My wife's level of English is still poor - she intends to learn in the UK. If they interrogate us at the border, am I able to act as her translator, in terms of answering any questions they may pose to her? Or would they insist on her trying to answer in English, or on using an official translator?

3) When we arrive into the UK, my wife's EU FP will almost be expired. It has a duration from March to Sept. I intend to bring her over in late August. Is it possible to apply for an EEA FM after an EU FP expires? If not, then how/when does UKBA assess expiry date? Would they assess its timeliness on the day that the application arrives into their office, or on the day that they would issue a COA? Other forum members note that it often takes two weeks or more for a dated COA to be issued after an application arrives to their office. If my wife's FP is close to expiry, does that mean we should mail the application at least, say, three weeks prior to expiry, to be safe, or could we mail it with as little as 1 day left on the FP?

Hope these questions make sense. Thanks very much in advance for your thoughts and comments!

[chaoclive]

Hi there,

I'm a Hungarian working in the UK, with a Filipina wife. We applied for her EU FP in Dec. 2014, which was approved and received in Mar. 2015. She's remained in the Philippines during this time, while I work in the UK.

Now, I've saved up enough to be able to bring her to the UK for the next phase of our life. I will fly to the Philippines and the two of us will fly back to the UK together. Just have three questions for you in this regard:

1) At the border, is a first-time entry with an EU FP any different than subsequent entries? I've seen posts in this forum about differing levels of border control scrutiny to EU FP holders. Beyond our passports and basic papers (e.g. marriage certificate), should we bring any other documentation along in our carry-on bags in case they decide to interrogate us? I have all of the evidence that I submitted to the EU FP application saved onto my laptop - but do you think I should also bring some printouts just in case? WE BROUGHT OUR CIVIL PARTNERSHIP CERTIFICATE AND HAD THE PRINTOUTS OF THE LAW, E.G. DIRECTIVE 2004/38/EC JUST IN CASE. WE DIDN'T NEED THEM AFTER ALL.

2) My wife's level of English is still poor - she intends to learn in the UK. If they interrogate us at the border, am I able to act as her translator, in terms of answering any questions they may pose to her? Or would they insist on her trying to answer in English, or on using an official translator? I DID NOT LET THEM TALK DIRECTLY TO MY CIVIL PARTNER AND DIDN'T ALLOW HIM TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS, BUT THE WOMAN AT IMMIGRATION INSISTED ON TRYING TO TALK TO HIM. I SAID NO AND REMINDED HIM THAT HIS VISA WAS OFF THE BACK OF ME BEING AN EEA CITIZEN. I'M SURE SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO FIND A TRANSLATOR IF THEY NEEDED TO AND I'M SURE YOU WILL BE ALLOWED TO TRANSLATE.

3) When we arrive into the UK, my wife's EU FP will almost be expired. It has a duration from March to Sept. I intend to bring her over in late August. Is it possible to apply for an EEA FM after an EU FP expires? If not, then how/when does UKBA assess expiry date? Would they assess its timeliness on the day that the application arrives into their office, or on the day that they would issue a COA? Other forum members note that it often takes two weeks or more for a dated COA to be issued after an application arrives to their office. If my wife's FP is close to expiry, does that mean we should mail the application at least, say, three weeks prior to expiry, to be safe, or could we mail it with as little as 1 day left on the FP? IT DOESN'T MATTER. YOU CAN APPLY FOR EEA FM AS SOON AS YOU HAVE ENOUGH DOCUMENTS. YOU NEED TO GET SOME PROOF OF HER RESIDENCE IN THE UK, E.G. TV LICENSE (NOT ENOUGH IN ITSELF), HER NAME ON THE TENANCY AGREEMENT, BANK STATEMENT (WE OPENED A BASIC BANK ACCOUNT (CALLED CASHMINDER: http://www.co-operativebank.co.uk/curre ... cashminder) WITH THE COOPERATIVE BANK USING HIS TV LICENSE), YOUR SPOUSE'S NAME ON UTILITIES ETC. YOU WILL ALSO NEED YOUR OWN PAYSLIPS/CONTRACTS/LETTER OF EMPLOYMENT ETC. YOUR PARTNER WILL NOT BE ILLEGAL NO MATTER WHAT, AS LONG AS YOU ARE EXERCISING TREATY RIGHTS SHE HAS THE RIGHT TO BE HERE. OUR COA TOOK ABOUT 2 WEEKS. SEE HERE FOR INFO ABOUT HER STATUS AFTER THE EEA FAMILY PERMIT EXPIRES: https://www.gov.uk/family-permit. IT SAYS:
'Stay after your EEA family permit expires
You can stay in the UK after your permit expires if you:
are the family member of an EEA national - see if you’re eligible'

THE EXPIRY DATE ON THE EEA FAMILY PERMIT IS NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT BUT IT WOULD PROBABLY MEAN THAT IT WILL BE HARDER FOR HER TO OPEN A BANK ACCOUNT ETC AS THE BANK WILL NORMALLY NEED TO SEE HER VISA.

Hope these questions make sense. Thanks very much in advance for your thoughts and comments!

FORGOT TO ADD, THE FIRST TIME SHE ENTERS ON HER EEA FAMILY PERMIT, SHE WILL HAVE TO FILL IN A LANDING CARD AS THEY DO NOT HAVE A RECORD OF HER ON THE SYSTEM. THERE WASN'T A DIFFERENT NON-EEA QUEUE WHEN WE ENTERED 1ST TIME (THROUGH BIRMINGHAM) SO I CAN'T TELL YOU ABOUT THE QUEUE. WE NOW USE THE EU QUEUE WITHOUT PROBLEMS AS MY PARTNER HAS A RESIDENCE CARD ALREADY.

[julianeea]

This is a very helpful response, many thanks chaoclive!
Cheers

[cafeconleche]

The most important thing to know is that, by being your spouse, she has the RIGHT to enter the EU and live with you. This is automatic, and legally, no documentation other than the proof of relationship is necessary.

Now that that's out of the way, the UK loves to make it difficult for foreigners, and this is no exception. It's hard with you as an EEA citizen, but third country nationals are easy to pick on. The EEA family permit is, according to EU law, not really necessary if she presents herself at an EU port of entry with you, or in order to join you. The problem is, of course, the airline (but sometimes also UK immigration). However, the permit is only necessary to ENTER the UK. Once in the UK, it's not necessary (even according to the UK government website) to apply for a residence card due to her automatic rights. In practice, however, banks and employers and everyone else do not want to fall foul of Theresa May and her foot soldiers, so they normally insist of government documentation proving your eligibility for employment and services. Also, re-entry to the UK for a visa national is a problem without documentation.

This is what you need her (and ideally, you ought to get one too) residence card, for which you both can apply whenever, even after expiry of her family permit. However, the earlier, the better.

By the way, for how long have you exercised treaty rights in the UK? Might you already be a permanent resident? Do you intend to apply for British citizenship?

[chaoclive]

By the way, for how long have you exercised treaty rights in the UK? Might you already be a permanent resident? Do you intend to apply for British citizenship?

Not sure that British citizenship would be a wise move just at this stage... just saying.

[cafeconleche]

You're right. I forgot why I asked about his eligibility for British citizenship...

[julianeea]

Hi there,

I just wanted to update this post based on my real experience at the border crossing with my wife last month.

In short, we crossed through (at Heathrow) with no problems at all. The officer was incredibly laid back and even cracked jokes to help me relax. The conversation went something like this,

Me: (said with a huge burst of nervous and adversarial energy, hands shaking, etc.!) 'Morning. I'm a qualified EU citizen that's proven my right to live and work here in the UK. This is my wife, she's joining me now here in the UK as per her legal right...'
Border officer: (sensing my nervousness, chuckles and interrupts me, trying to relax me) 'Alright alright, I believe you...' (said something else that was relatively cheerful)
(started looking through the documents)
Officer: 'Does she understand English?'
Me: 'A little bit, but I can translate for you if necessary'
Officer: 'No no, don't worry don't worry, just asking'
(after inspecting my passport, hers and the landing card, the officer asks for her fingers to do fingerprint scans)
Officer: 'Have you taught her any Hungarian yet?'
Me: 'Oh, uh, no, not yet!'
Officer: 'Be sure to teach her the swear words first!'
(a little bit more admin work)
Officer: 'Ok, here you go (stamps passport and gives documents back), good luck'
Me: 'Thanks very much!'


Can't promise it'll be this easy for everyone - our case history was very straightforward - but was nice to have such a simple and relaxed experience with this! Hope this is helpful to others with straightforward cases who may be nervous about the border crossing.

Cheers,

J