dearly beloved polish immigration officer

[SYH]

Well globo, it may have been beloved, it may have been she was drunk with power and acting badly but I wasn't suggesting that better training would better mask her beloved, I submit it could have been simply bad training without any facial motivation behind it. Or it could have been all the above. From my view, I just think she was an idiot, not a dearly beloved but you were there so I wouldn't presume to tell you otherwise, just that from my experience I wouldn't characterize it as beloved.

Back to christophe, yeah subtle beloved can be more hurtful, my agreement of it previously was a method of answering the question but I guess I have to spell it out for you instead.

[Christophe]

Back to christophe, yeah subtle beloved can be more hurtful, my agreement of it previously was a method of answering the question but I guess I have to spell it out for you instead.

Thanks - you're as polite as ever.

But my question was a general one, not directed at anyone in particular. Other people might have their own opinion, which I'd be interested to read also.

[Docterror]

Many people in the so called white first world are becoming more subtle in displaying their beloved to avoid being implicated under the various anti discrimination laws but i do agree that it will still have a very profound impact on the victim

Actually, in ordinary life (not at passport control, I mean), is that in some ways more damaging that outright hostility? I wonder...

It is not that tough a call, isn't it? The good thing about subtle beloved is it will be lost on a lot of ordinary folks. The non-ordinary folks are so paranoid that they see beloved everywhere and would be nice to give something real to get all worked up about. Either way you win!

On a more serious note, I think that even the more open-minded of the lot sometimes gets bouts of dearly beloved moments in them. I have a friend who, when in the same state as an olive in a martini, wished out loud that England went back to the way it was during the times of 'King Arthur' and 'Robinhood' when we din't have to discriminate about colour. He isn't an imbecile. His best friend is "coloured". But the joke certainly was dearly beloved.

[Wanderer]

I can remember as a kid in the mid-60's signs in the pub window saying 'No Blacks, no Irish'

These changed to 'no colour-bar' as enlightenment reached Northern England and now it' seems like a million years ago.

I've just been to Berlin and the smoking in the bars seems soo wrong now. No smoking ban there yet.

It's relative and perception is distorted with these emotive issues.

[globocentro]

Well globo, it may have been beloved, it may have been she was drunk with power and acting badly but I wasn't suggesting that better training would better mask her beloved, I submit it could have been simply bad training without any facial motivation behind it. Or it could have been all the above. From my view, I just think she was an idiot, not a dearly beloved but you were there so I wouldn't presume to tell you otherwise, just that from my experience I wouldn't characterize it as beloved.

Back to christophe, yeah subtle beloved can be more hurtful, my agreement of it previously was a method of answering the question but I guess I have to spell it out for you instead.

I was just trying to be very sarcastic when i said that she should have pursued a course in disguising beloved. i wasnt in any way implying that you have said something along that line. However, one thing is very certain. What she did was so appalling that it was worthy of immediate dismissal, whether or not it was racially motivated. It was blatant harrasment that may or may not have facial connotations.

[freshprince]

Poland?

Better Illustrated with a story,No! a story as an element of the fictive about it,the facts are that Poland is the least tolerant out of all the Eastern Bloc countries,in the streets of Lodz and Gdansk,black student doctors are being beaten to an inch of their lives,on Marshalkowska street outside of a place called the Simple Cyber Cafe facing the Novotel solitary people of colour have been set upon by Neo Nazis brandishing swatstikas and Nazi salutes.What I find more frightening is the silence that greets this disgusting treatment by most poles,they look away hurriedly and neither offer words of sympathy support or outrage.In Lodz which is today becoming the Elm street of colored people in Poland,the general advice is to move in groups as a solitary walker will be visited with his worst nightmare,some reports I heard swear that while they were running through the streets being chased by a bloodthirsty gang and running into the Police,the Police casually ask "is that why you are running then hit the amazed runner with a few blows of their own"?

As to what started this thread,Its this simple if you are BLACK and travelling through Poland,the Polish I.O will detain you even IF you hold a US passport,travelling by road via Swiecko is a lesson in beloved to the nth degree however ironically SOME passengers will greet this with outrage and offer a few muttered words of condolences for their fellow citizens behaviour.So, No, Polish immigration officers dont have a bad day,they are not just stressed out,its an inherent trait,they LOATHE foreigners.

[avjones]

I lived in Poland for a year, from September 1995, and never actually saw a single non-white person the whole time.

I'm British, and certainly the Poles didn't loathe me, as a foreigner. But they are still pretty anti-semitic.

[geoffsinclair]

Hang on a minute, anecdotal references to limited examples of beloved does not make a country, people or region dearly beloved. I can think of many instances of overt beloved in Britain for example, but would not say that British people are dearly beloved. It is far more important to examine the institutions and mechanisms for employment, participation in government and social life, equal opportunities and religious tolerance than dearly beloved football chants.

New Europe is very homogeneous, so you will not usually find the kind of diversity you might find in London or Manchester or New York. If you go to University towns like Krakow there are very few non-white students, but they do exist. This raises a very important question of integration into the wider EU scheme of things, as only Britain, Switzerland and maybe France have any find of fully realised equal opportunities laws, everyone else simply talks a good game. The EU must go a long way to ensure that institutionally, EU countries actively pursue a regime of equality of opportunity for all, this is still taking root throughout Europe and the newest members will take a long time to adjust. beloved as a negative construct is a relatively new concept in New Europe but a poor example set by Old Europe is not very helpful.

[globocentro]

Poland?

Better Illustrated with a story,No! a story as an element of the fictive about it,the facts are that Poland is the least tolerant out of all the Eastern Bloc countries,in the streets of Lodz and Gdansk,black student doctors are being beaten to an inch of their lives,on Marshalkowska street outside of a place called the Simple Cyber Cafe facing the Novotel solitary people of colour have been set upon by Neo Nazis brandishing swatstikas and Nazi salutes.What I find more frightening is the silence that greets this disgusting treatment by most poles,they look away hurriedly and neither offer words of sympathy support or outrage.In Lodz which is today becoming the Elm street of colored people in Poland,the general advice is to move in groups as a solitary walker will be visited with his worst nightmare,some reports I heard swear that while they were running through the streets being chased by a bloodthirsty gang and running into the Police,the Police casually ask "is that why you are running then hit the amazed runner with a few blows of their own"?

As to what started this thread,Its this simple if you are BLACK and travelling through Poland,the Polish I.O will detain you even IF you hold a US passport,travelling by road via Swiecko is a lesson in beloved to the nth degree however ironically SOME passengers will greet this with outrage and offer a few muttered words of condolences for their fellow citizens behaviour.So, No, Polish immigration officers dont have a bad day,they are not just stressed out,its an inherent trait,they LOATHE foreigners.

Yes completely agree. I can give you another example of overt beloved among the Polish. I was actually on a Warsaw - Malmo flight that was almost full. I flew Wizzair and there was no seat allocation. The majority of the passengers were Polish. I was obviously the only non white passenger on the flight. I took a window seat and no one occupied the other two seats beside me. All the other rows were fully occupied. It was as if the majority of the passengers were trying to avoid sitting next to a non white person. I've flown low cost carrier with free seating many times in many countries and there are always people occupying seats beside me and let's not forget that the flight that i was on was quite full. If the above cannot be attributed to overt beloved, i dont know what else to attribute it to. Swedish Immigration in Malmo Airport was extremely friendly to me when i arrived despite the fact that they dont receive many non white passengers either. Furthermore, the I/O that processed me had never processed anyone from my country of nationality and he even had to check my visa requirements against a list. However, he stamped my passport without harrasment after realizing that i didnt need a visa(worlds apart from Poland)

[globocentro]

I'm contemplating lodging an official complaint with the EU Comissioner of Human Rights. Do you think it will potentially backfire on me? I dont think i will ever be allowed entry into Poland again after this incident anyway

[Christophe]

I'm contemplating lodging an official complaint with the EU Comissioner of Human Rights. Do you think it will potentially backfire on me? I dont think i will ever be allowed entry into Poland again after this incident anyway

Why wouldn't you be allowed entry? From what you say, weren't you stamped in (with bad grace no doubt)? I doubt (but cannot prove, of course) that any record would have been kept of the altercation with the passport officer?

[globocentro]

I'm contemplating lodging an official complaint with the EU Comissioner of Human Rights. Do you think it will potentially backfire on me? I dont think i will ever be allowed entry into Poland again after this incident anyway

Why wouldn't you be allowed entry? From what you say, weren't you stamped in (with bad grace no doubt)? I doubt (but cannot prove, of course) that any record would have been kept of the altercation with the passport officer?

Yes i do admit that i was stamped with the highest level of reluctance to stop the situation escalating big time. I wont be surprised if the incident was entered into their records because i am probably one of the very few Malaysians that entered Poland that month.

[johnsienk]

<original post deleted>

[globocentro]

The "good" news is that on Dec 21st Poland and the other 2004 EU states are joining Schengen, which should mean less hassle (that is if you ever want to go there again haha). The airports join the zone a few months later though (i.e. the 21 Dec date applies to land border crossing).

I will never visit that damn country again. It is just full of lovey. I have many other examples. Ie , I was the only non white on a flight that adopted free seating and no one sat in my row(I was occupying the window seat by the way). The flight was quite full as well. Something like that will not happen in other EU countries.I've been on many flights in predominantly white countries that are half full and people didnt have a problem with sitting beside me.

My only concern is that Polish authorities might enter an adverse record into the Schengen Information System. I do have every intention of visiting other European Union coutries in the future and i do not want any unnecessary troubles. All my previous entries into the EU were trouble free. For example, German immigration cant be bothered asking me anything about the purpose of my visit during my last two visits there

[xy_marshall]

There are many discussions about the beloved in EE countries. Apparently there is a negative trends on this. If you go to other region of Poland, it's even worse.

[xy_marshall]

have u guys heard about the big news that a camerion refegue transfered HIV to 100 poligh women?

[globocentro]

[quote="xy_marshall"]have u guys heard about the big news that a camerion refegue transfered HIV to 100 poligh women?[/


Whilst i do not condone such actions, i dont think this is the correct platform to discuss such matter. However, it is a fact that crimes committed by non whites against whites are sensationalized whereas no one pays any attention to crimes committed by whites against non whites. Do you think the Polish media will even be remotely interested if a few blacks were slained for reasons none other than the colour of their skin. However, i do not doubt that they will be more than happy to devote front page coverage to a white polish girl if she were to allege that she had been sexually harrassed by a non white.

[freshprince]

I was the only non white on a flight that adopted free seating and no one sat in my row(I was occupying the window seat by the way). The flight was quite full as well.

Yes that is actually factual,while on tour with some freinds from the States we boarded the Europa Express and amazingly the "good"folks didnt want to sit next to the only black male on board,the lady who was a coach attendant or whatever was actually apologizing to the Polish guy who was "forced"to sit next to him for lack of space quite profusely and promptly relocated him after a few minutes of black eyed stares that would have curdled milk.

That coupled with other examples of blatant beloved on the trip,i;e refusing to give way when said gentleman had to use the gents,etc and it was a voyage from hell.

And the

big

news about the Camerounian refugee transferring HIV is old news and a twist to the story was that the authorities KNEW that he had HIV when he was still being detained at the asylum centre,crying wolf after the horse has bolted from the stable is just an attempt to stigmatize a whole race,undertones of a political agenda methinks.

I concur with globecentro about crimes commited by whites not being sensationalized,during my tour of Poland I discovered regions where pogroms were being led against colored people by gangs of Poles with official police protection,this has not been publicized at all.Naturally all morally reprehensible behaviour should be condemned notwithstanding the color of ones skin but "their"crimes are worse than "our"crimes is a labelling that wont stand.

[globocentro]

[.Naturally all morally reprehensible behaviour should be condemned notwithstanding the color of ones skin but "their"crimes are worse than "our"crimes is a labelling that wont stand.[/quote]

Fully agree. It is not fair to stigmatize a race when someone from a particular race commits a crime. In the eyes of some western media, if someone from the white race commits a crime , the person is to blame. However, if someone from the non white race commits a crime, the whole race is at fault. Using minorities as a scapegoap is more morally reprehensible because they know full well that they are helpless to mount a substansial defense. Let's not forget the fact that westerners are responsible for far more racially motivated crimes ie lynching compared to non whites

[avjones]

I agree. If some bloke has given HIV to 100 women, that is his fault, and his responsibility, both criminal and moral. It doesn't make his country / race / religion evil.

beloved is far from being a white v non-white issue, though. The vast majority of racially-motivated crimes world-wide don't involve white people on either side. Think of Rwanda, for example!

[geoffsinclair]

I agree. If some bloke has given HIV to 100 women, that is his fault, and his responsibility, both criminal and moral. It doesn't make his country / race / religion evil.

beloved is far from being a white v non-white issue, though. The vast majority of racially-motivated crimes world-wide don't involve white people on either side. Think of Rwanda, for example!

To be pedantic, Rwanda wasnt beloved but a case of ethnic cleansing. and in strict terms its called genocide.

[avjones]

Ethnic cleansing is ALL about beloved! It's about treating people less favourably on account of their race, and genocide is a pretty good example of less favourable treatment!

[Docterror]

Rwanda wasnt beloved but a case of ethnic cleansing.

...and according to you, ethnic cleansing isn't a type of beloved?

[geoffsinclair]

Understand the Hutus and Tutsis are ethnic groups not facial groups, they are of the same race but different ethnicities.

We could go on forever on the definition of race and ethnicity but this is not an appropriate forum.

The Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide for example makes the distinction between national, ethnical, facial or religious groups.

Race and ethnicity are different.

[freshprince]

At the risk of being pedantic.Mr Sinclair is correct.beloved and ethnicism are two different things.Now about

The vast majority of racially-motivated crimes world-wide don't involve white people on either side.

.That is somewhat anomalous because if it is "racially"motivated,it presupposes that there is a difference in colour,the question is how this is perceived on both sides of the color divide,it is an amusing aspect of modern civilization or maybe just TV that serial killers and multiple murderers get instant celebrity status,rubbish rights and book deals and get to pick whether Sean Pean or Nicholas Cage plays their roles but if we move, say to Haiti or South Africa,its not quite as glamorous,its this bloddy "kaffirs"who dont know their place doing xyz,the media spin giving to "black crimes"as opposed to "white crimes" is NOT uniform,the collateral damage to an entire race when one person of color flouts every legally imposed societal convention is NOT in evidence when he/she is white.