Non EEU and EU member moving to Ireland

Lynette · Post by **Lynette** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:00 pm

Hi there,
I am new to this Board. I am also a non-EEU member (holding a South African Passport) and my husband holds a German Passport also South African born. We wish to move to Ireland next year. Is it better to move to Northern Ireland first !! I have been reading the comments regard all the immigration chaos in the Republic. Any suggestions ...

kind regards,
Lynette

Post by **archigabe** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:45 pm

I think Northern Ireland/UK is the way to go if you want to save yourselves a lot of trouble. Things might change later, but that's uncertain.

Lynette · Post by **Lynette** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:03 am

Thank you Archigabe for replying. Can we move directly to Northern Ireland from South Africa or do we have to go via the UK/London. If so, please tell me what procedures I need to follow as the non EEA member. This EEA Family Permit for the Spouse which is obtained from the British Embassy here in SA; what does this involve ! Are they difficult to obtain and what paper work do I need to produce â€¦ Many thks again.

Lynette

yankeegirl · Post by **yankeegirl** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:52 am

Hi Lynette,

The family permit application process is pretty painless and you can move to Northern Ireland directly from South Africa.

Your husband can go to the UK first and then you join him, or you can travel together; you just can't move to the UK before he does.

UKVisas are bringing out new application forms starting on 29 October. If you intend to apply before that the form you need is the VAF1 form. When I applied for mine last March, I submitted both our passports, marriage certificate, 6 months of bank statements and letter from my husbands employer along with payslips; he was already working in the UK. If your husband does not have a job offer in the UK, have proof of a bit of savings until you guys can find a job.I had our lease as well, but if I remember correctly the ECO never asked for it.

Now, once you arrive in the UK on a family permit, you will be able to work right away. The permit is valid for 6 months, and within that time, the next step will be to apply for a residence card using form EEA1 which is valid for 5 years.

runie80 · Post by **runie80** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:57 am

Lynette wrote:Thank you Archigabe for replying. Can we move directly to Northern Ireland from South Africa or do we have to go via the UK/London. If so, please tell me what procedures I need to follow as the non EEA member. This EEA Family Permit for the Spouse which is obtained from the British Embassy here in SA; what does this involve ! Are they difficult to obtain and what paper work do I need to produce â€¦ Many thks again.

Lynette

If you can get a direct Flight yes you can move to Northern Ireland.
Northern Ireland is the part of UK.

More regarding the law is at the following link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland#Law

Regarding EEA

Read all at the following link
http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Front ... 8721068382

Lynette · Post by **Lynette** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:42 pm

Thank you for replying :- You stated :-

"Now, once you arrive in the UK on a family permit, you will be able to work right away. The permit is valid for 6 months, and within that time, the next step will be to apply for a residence card using form EEA1 which is valid for 5 years."

Once I arrive in the UK on a family permit can I then move over to Northern Ireland and work right away. Can I then apply for the residence card (EEA1) whilst in Northern Ireland and working without having to work a while in the UK !

Thanks for your response
Kind regards
Lynette

yankeegirl · Post by **yankeegirl** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:47 pm

Just to clarify, Northern Ireland is a part of the UK. No, you do not have to have a job, I only mentioned it because its a question that comes up periodically. However, when you apply to remain in Northern Ireland (EEA1) you will have to submit proof that your spouse is exercising a treaty right such as employment, self-employment, education or self-sufficiency.

Lynette · Post by **Lynette** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:26 pm

Yankeegirl, you are so helpful. Just to get my facts straight :-

1. I apply to the British Embassy in South Africa for a UK Family Permit which is valid for (6) months.
2. We then fly to London and catch a connecting flight to Northern Ireland (i.e. Belfast).
3. Once there we are both able to seek employment (we both want to work)
4. During this (6) months I apply for a Residence Card using an EEA1 Form in order to acquire
Permanent residence for 5 years.

Are all the above points correct ?

One last question when can we move to the Republic should we wish to work and live near Dublin !

Many thanks Yankeegirl
You are giving me some hope and a future plan â€¦
Lynette

yankeegirl · Post by **yankeegirl** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:31 pm

You hit the nail on the head, those are the right steps (though you would not be applying for permanent residence in step 4, rather a residence card valid for 5 years and after that you would be eligible for permanent residence.) You don't have to fly to London though, but it may be difficult to find a flight direct to Belfast from South Africa.

As far as moving to the Republic of Ireland, I wouldn't really attempt it until at least 6 months of living in Northern Ireland. The Republic of Ireland requires that in order for a non-EEA spouse to move to ROI with their EEA spouse, they must have first resided in another member state. And who knows, you may end up loving Northern Ireland!

Even, if you are in Belfast, Dublin is only about 2 or so hours away, so not too far.

kazana · Post by **kazana** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:25 am

Hi Lynette,

I've got some good news for you:
I'm German, and my wife is South African. We had absolutely no problem moving to Ireland together (the Republic that is). We even got here without a job, visum or whatever - neither of us.
Since I'm an EU national, my wife was able to get an unlimited work visa without much hassle. Sure, we had to get it at the GNIB (g..something national immigration board), but that was no problem at all.
Only thing is, that as South African you need to renew your working visa every year, and that can be quite frustrating, sitting in the waiting room every time again.

Other than that, though, they can't refuse your right to seek employment as long as you're married to an EU citizen.

Usually, there's no need to worry about it. As long as both of you can afford the stay until you find a job, you'll be perfectly fine. As I've said before, we moved to Dublin with nothing but some money, our passports and our marriage certificate and we're both settled in Dubs now.

I can imagine that Northern Ireland has some more restrictive rules, especially since neither of you have an UK residency permit by default, unlike the laws governing EU countries, where no EU citizen (and his/her spouse) may be refused to stay.

Either way, good luck to both of you, and if you need any more information or assistance, don't hesitate to contact us through this board.

Greetz,

Brendon

yankeegirl · Post by **yankeegirl** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:43 am

Other than that, though, they can't refuse your right to seek employment as long as you're married to an EU citizen.

how long ago did you move to Ireland?

Applications made in Ireland for spouses of EU citizens are being refused now if the non-EU spouse did not have legal residence in another member state immediately prior to moving to Ireland. They are also no longer offering work permits to spouses of EU nationals. There was one poster on here that managed to get one before the scheme was stopped, and a few more that tried and failed.

I can imagine that Northern Ireland has some more restrictive rules

Absolutely not true, which is why we've had members on here who were denied permission to remain in Ireland based on not having lived in another member state move to Northern Ireland. Essentially all that needs to be proved is that the non-EU person is in fact a family member of an EU citizen. This is usually done at the ebmassy before moving to the UK and the non-EU spouse can take up employment the day they arrive, no need to register with the police and no need for any work permits. Then once in the UK on a family permit (obtained at the embassy before arriving), you apply for a residence card that is valid for 5 years. A very easy and painless process.

Have a look at this thread for someone that did both processes.
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=19129

Lynette · Post by **Lynette** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:24 am

Many thanks Yankeegirl and Kazana for your wonderful news. At least I can now put a plan together and start researching Northern Ireland. Kazana, when did you move to the Republic ? Were you a German citizen residing in Germany ? Both my German husband and I reside in South Africa so this may cause a problem.

Many thanks again
Lynette

Post by **archigabe** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:09 pm

kazana wrote:Hi Lynette,
I've got some good news for you:
I'm German, and my wife is South African. We had absolutely no problem moving to Ireland together (the Republic that is). We even got here without a job, visum or whatever - neither of us.
Since I'm an EU national, my wife was able to get an unlimited work visa without much hassle. Sure, we had to get it at the GNIB (g..something national immigration board), but that was no problem at all.
Only thing is, that as South African you need to renew your working visa every year, and that can be quite frustrating, sitting in the waiting room every time again.

Other than that, though, they can't refuse your right to seek employment as long as you're married to an EU citizen.

Usually, there's no need to worry about it. As long as both of you can afford the stay until you find a job, you'll be perfectly fine. As I've said before, we moved to Dublin with nothing but some money, our passports and our marriage certificate and we're both settled in Dubs now.

I can imagine that Northern Ireland has some more restrictive rules, especially since neither of you have an UK residency permit by default, unlike the laws governing EU countries, where no EU citizen (and his/her spouse) may be refused to stay.

Either way, good luck to both of you, and if you need any more information or assistance, don't hesitate to contact us through this board.
Greetz,
Brendon

Kazana, you are giving out information which is completely out of date and may have been only relevant a few years ago. Unless the couple had been living in another E.U state before moving to Ireland they will be treated as complete 'pariahs and undesirables' by the Irish Government.

Ark · Post by **Ark** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:31 pm

archigabe wrote: Kazana, you are giving out information which is completely out of date and may have been only relevant a few years ago. Unless the couple had been living in another E.U state before moving to Ireland they will be treated as complete 'pariahs and undesirables' by the Irish Government.

Correct.

Unless you resided legally for a few months in another EU state, STAY AWAY FROM EIRE if you have any regard for valuable years of your life.

dub · Post by **dub** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:21 pm

Hi,

I'm an irish citizen, currently living in Northern Ireland.

My fiance is a non-EU/EEA national and we're planning to get married next year.

As I understand it, under the freedom of movement directive she will be allowed to come here as the spouse of an EU citizen.

Is this correct ?

Can she work ?

If we establish residence here and apply for her residence card will she be able to come with me when I visit my family in the republic ?

Finally, will we be able to move to the republic after a period of residence in Northern Ireland ?

If so, how long would be typical and would she be entitled to work in the republic ?

I know it's a lot of questions and thanks a million in advance

yankeegirl · Post by **yankeegirl** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:57 pm

Hi dub,

Yes, once married, your wife will be allowed to reside in Northern Ireland with you. She will need to apply for an EEA family permit. This is valid for 6 months and it allows her to work. Once in Northern Ireland she should apply for a 5 year residence card. My husband is also Irish (from Dublin) and this was the route I used to move to Derry.

What country is your wife from? Technically, if she would ordinarily require a visa to visit Ireland (Republic) I think (not positive though)she should apply for a visit visa, however as you know the border is wide open. I'm back and forth between the two quite often and have never once on over 3 years been asked by anyone for my passport.

If you want to then move to the Republic under EU regulations via the Surinder Singh rule, then a minimum of 6 months residence in Northern Ireland I think before moving to ROI. However, you could simply apply to have her move there as the spouse of an Irish citizen. Try doing a search on the forum, I'm not sure of the exact procedure of applying for an Irish visa as the spouse of an Irish citizen.

dub · Post by **dub** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:30 am

Thanks yankee girl,

She's Moroccan so she would need a visa to enter.. but I was under the impression that once we have a UK residency card then she doesn't need a visa to visit the republic.

And strangely enough, the Garda stopped the bus I was on at the border two weeks ago (belfast - dublin) and checked eveyone's documents..

I've been trying to find about about the spousal reunification but believe that it is totally discretionary, and given what i have read about the republic's immigration rules here on this site, I am not too optimistic

I tink we'd have an easier life in the north, and after all, we're getting married so we can enjoy our lives together and not spend them sitting in ther GNIB offices

yankeegirl · Post by **yankeegirl** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:14 am

And strangely enough, the Garda stopped the bus I was on at the border two weeks ago (belfast - dublin) and checked eveyone's documents..

Holy sh!t!!! Crap, I guess I'll have to start carrying my passport lol.

I'm really not sure about the ease or difficulty of the Irish process (though I've read a lot of awful stories on here) but the UK system has been pretty easy.

Lynette · Post by **Lynette** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:09 am

Hello Yankeegirl
When I go to the British Embassy in SA and apply for a UK Family Permit (Spouse) with all the relevant docs., do I need to make an appointment first ? How long does the permit take to process ? Is it fairly quick or do we wait a couple of months for it !
Many thanks
Lynette
PS: You have given me HOPE lol

yankeegirl · Post by **yankeegirl** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:54 am

Each country does it differently. I'm not sure about the length of time it takes, again, it seems to vary by country. Here's a link pertaining to South Africa. Hope it helps.

http://www.britishhighcommission.gov.uk ... 9751435619

JollyRancher1 · Post by **JollyRancher1** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:01 pm

Yankeegirl,

Im an American married to a German citizen. Were both in USA but I want to live and work in UK for some time. She wants to stay in USA. Does she have to physically accompany me to the UK for the EEA Family Permit to be valid upon arrival in UK? I plan to stay with friends in UK.

yankeegirl wrote:Hi dub,

Yes, once married, your wife will be allowed to reside in Northern Ireland with you. She will need to apply for an EEA family permit. This is valid for 6 months and it allows her to work. Once in Northern Ireland she should apply for a 5 year residence card. My husband is also Irish (from Dublin) and this was the route I used to move to Derry.

What country is your wife from? Technically, if she would ordinarily require a visa to visit Ireland (Republic) I think (not positive though)she should apply for a visit visa, however as you know the border is wide open. I'm back and forth between the two quite often and have never once on over 3 years been asked by anyone for my passport.

If you want to then move to the Republic under EU regulations via the Surinder Singh rule, then a minimum of 6 months residence in Northern Ireland I think before moving to ROI. However, you could simply apply to have her move there as the spouse of an Irish citizen. Try doing a search on the forum, I'm not sure of the exact procedure of applying for an Irish visa as the spouse of an Irish citizen.

Lynette · Post by **Lynette** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:55 am

Hello Yankeegirl,
I was thinking about this Family Permit over the weekend. I wish to paint another scenario. What if my husband (the EU member) and I (the non EU member) left South Africa for Belfast without applying for my Family Permit from the British Embassy here? Can I go ahead and apply for the 5 yr residence card once in Belfast ? Would the only difference be that I would be unable to work until I have a residence card and if this was the case, how long would I have to wait for it. My husband would find work immediately and we would look for a place to rent. Is it imperative that I have this Family Permit Visa from here in SA ?
Many thanks for all your assistance so far.
Kind regards
Lynette

yankeegirl · Post by **yankeegirl** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:01 pm

Im an American married to a German citizen. Were both in USA but I want to live and work in UK for some time. She wants to stay in USA. Does she have to physically accompany me to the UK for the EEA Family Permit to be valid upon arrival in UK? I plan to stay with friends in UK.

Jollyrancher, You wouldn't be eligible to live in the UK unless your wife is living here with you. The family permit is granted based on being the family member of an EU citizen and the EU citizen exercising a treaty right in the UK.

Lynette,

I don't think the family permit is required, but to be honest, it makes life easier lol. Some health trusts are wanting to see visas when trying to register with a GP, and it makes all of that kind of stuff hassle free to have something in the passport. The application is fairly straightforward, and it's free to apply for. Currently the processing times for EEA2 (residence card) is 6 months. However, there is antecdotal evidence of it being processed more quickly if the EU partner submits the EEA1 application at the same time. My husband and I did this and got everthing back in about 5 weeks.

Lynette · Post by **Lynette** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:46 am

Hi Yankeegirl,
Thank you for replying â€¦.. what is the EEA1 Application that the EU member completes and will I be able to work on arriving in Belfast, without a Family Permit.
Look forward to hearing from you

I sometimes battle to post a reply on this Board and it takes me many attempts !
Kind regards,
Lynette

yankeegirl · Post by **yankeegirl** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:21 pm

The EEA1 is just a confirmation that that EEA citizen is living/exercising a treaty right in the UK. It's totally not mandatory to apply for, but my husband applied for it simply to make my application get processed quicker.

As far as working in the UK without the family permit, I think theoretically you could, because the family permit it more a comfirmation of your right to live and work here, but it may be difficult to convince an employer of that without anything in the passport.

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Non EEU and EU member moving to Ireland

Non EEU and EU member moving to Ireland

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Re: Moving to Ireland

Irish citizen in Northern Ireland marrying non-EU national

thanks