EC for wife (second marriage before the first was annulled)

[Casa]

Quote; "The law is clear and so are the immigration rules, the only problem is people applying their selective morality."

I've been considering the legal issue, not from a moral viewpoint on polygamy. By the way, I'm Muslim

[adnan111]

My comment was a general one and not aimed at anyone in particular. I respect this forum and the posters here as it provides valuable service in allowing access to information and experience that benefit all of us. Actually we are talking about technical bigamy and not polygamy.

http://www.findlaw.co.uk/law/family/oth ... 00406.html

Being married to more than one person at a time is recognised in England and Wales if it took place in a country that allows marriages of this kind (not in the UK) and both parties were legally free to marry in this way. Therefore, if someone legally enters the UK and already has three wives under a foreign law, then they will not be considered to be committing an offence in the UK (provided they do not enter into another marriage ceremony within the UK).

However, this may also mean that someone who is legally married in the UK could potentially marry someone else abroad, as marrying abroad means that the offence of bigamy under UK law is not applicable. However, he or she may be guilty of an offence overseas depending on whether the county he or she marries in criminalizes polygamy.

[Casa]

I was under the impression that we were discussing whether the marriage (before divorce) was recognised as valid under British law for immigration purposes, not whether a crime of bigamy had been committed.

[adnan111]

I was under the impression that we were discussing whether the marriage (before divorce) was recognised as valid under British law for immigration purposes, not whether a crime of bigamy had been committed.

Well you have the rules in front of you, which are very clear and have been discussed in detail. Now this is becoming a case of taking a horse to the water but being unable to make it drink water. If you ignore the rules then there is not much I can do.

http://www.findlaw.co.uk/law/family/oth ... 00406.html

The Immigration Rules state that a person should not be granted a UK spousal visa if their marriage to the UK sponsor is polygamous and there is another person living with the sponsor in the UK who is also their husband or wife. Therefore, a man married in the UK cannot obtain a spouse visa to bring a second wife into Britain.

[Casa]

I believe this thread will continue in the same vein until you find someone who agrees with your view or you receive a decision on your application.
As I've posted before, I can only wish you well with the outcome.

[adnan111]

I believe this thread will continue in the same vein until you find someone who agrees with your view or you receive a decision on your application.
As I've posted before, I can only wish you well with the outcome.

Well I am just going by the legal opinion that I received. The rules also agree with that legal opinion. The link above also agrees with that opinion.

The rule is that if you are MARRIED in the UK you cannot bring a SECOND wife to UK. However if you are not married in the UK and are bringing your only wife to the UK then you cannot be refused a visa.

[Casa]

I'm assuming you'll take the view that the Immigration rules post-July 12 no longer permit refusals such as posted previously and here below, even though there has been no amendment to British law. Strange as the Rules for spouse visa applications became tougher generally, not more lenient.
http://www.immigrationboards.com/immigr ... 99313.html

"I married my second wife while my divorce was underway with my first wife in U.K. After 2 years of divorce I applied for a spouce visa for my second wife which was rejected, Reason given by UKBA is that my second marraige is not valid since I was already married to my first wife at that time under uk law. first marraige was in U.K and second one was in india. Dear members kindly advice on how to resolve this issue. thanks in advance."

[adnan111]

I'm assuming you'll take the view that the Immigration rules post-July 12 no longer permit refusals such as posted previously and here below, even though there has been no amendment to British law. Strange as the Rules for spouse visa applications became tougher generally, not more lenient.
http://www.immigrationboards.com/immigr ... 99313.html

"I married my second wife while my divorce was underway with my first wife in U.K. After 2 years of divorce I applied for a spouce visa for my second wife which was rejected, Reason given by UKBA is that my second marraige is not valid since I was already married to my first wife at that time under uk law. first marraige was in U.K and second one was in india. Dear members kindly advice on how to resolve this issue. thanks in advance."

The rule 278 that you posted and the rule 278 that I posted is different, so it follows that the rule has been changed perhaps in July 2012, which is why you have not been able to come up with any refusal under the circumstances after this date and neither have I.

[Casa]

House of Commons - May 2014 file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/SN05051%20(1).pdf

Polygamy and the recognition of polygamous marriages
Immigration issues8
Section 2 of the Immigration Act 1988 and paragraphs 278 - 280 of the Immigration Rules
(HC 395 of 1993-4 as amended)
primary consideration should be given to whether the marriage is valid in United
Kingdom law. If it is not, the application should be refused on that account alone -
without considering the provisions of the Rules relating to polygamy;

With respect, a marriage that takes place before one party is divorced, cannot be considered legal under British law.

[adnan111]

House of Commons - May 2014 file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/SN05051%20(1).pdf

Polygamy and the recognition of polygamous marriages
Immigration issues8
Section 2 of the Immigration Act 1988 and paragraphs 278 - 280 of the Immigration Rules
(HC 395 of 1993-4 as amended)
primary consideration should be given to whether the marriage is valid in United
Kingdom law. If it is not, the application should be refused on that account alone -
without considering the provisions of the Rules relating to polygamy;

With respect, a marriage that takes place before one party is divorced, cannot be considered legal under British law.

The rule 278 stated in that document is the one that I posted, so your rule 278 is no longer in existence.

Rule 278 states that you cannot be married in the UK and bring in another wife to the UK, which is not the subject of this discussion. This discussion is about being divorced in UK and then applying to bring in a spouse which cannot be refused using rule 278. If the marriage abroad is accepted as valid abroad it is then valid under UK law, subject to rule 278.

[Casa]

I give up along with secret.simon and will agree to disagree. Good luck with everything Adnan, keep us updated on your application.

[adnan111]

I give up along with secret.simon and will agree to disagree. Good luck with everything Adnan, keep us updated on your application.

The document states it is Government policy to prevent the formation of polygamous households in this country. Well if you are married abroad then it does not lead to formation of polygamous households in this country. If you get divorced and then apply for settlement then it does not lead to formation of polygamous households in this country.

[geriatrix]

Thought the following (current) guidance may help find answer(s), hence sharing:

Guidance - Polygamous / potential polygamous marriages: SET14

[Casa]

Thanks for the link sushdmehta, but I've tried that and Adnan has rejected the information it contains as it's from Nov 2013 and he believes it's no longer relevant (including the flow chart).

Good to have you back by the way

[adnan111]

You could be married to someone, then separate from him or her and then enter into a new relationship with someone else, and live as husband and wife out of wedlock and everything is ok. However if you don't believe in having a relationship outside of religious relationship you get looked down and it gets called bigamy. I find it strange.

Well should get decision sometime this month so not long to go now.

[geriatrix]

Adnan111,
It was first published in November 2013, but is "the" current guidance .... that is why it is on the website and not in the archives.

Casa,
Glad to be back. Thanks!!

[Casa]

Adnan111,
It was first published in November 2013, but is "the" current guidance .... that is why it is on the website and not in the archives.

Casa,
Glad to be back. Thanks!!

That's what I believed sushdmehta, but I gave up trying to get my point across.

[adnan111]

Thought the following (current) guidance may help find answer(s), hence sharing:

Guidance - Polygamous / potential polygamous marriages: SET14

SET14.8 states: A polygamous spouse may apply for entry clearance and support the application by claiming that a previous marriage (which would otherwise disqualify him / her) has been dissolved.

This suggests that once the decree absolute is obtained they would consider the second wife as a spouse.

[alil2014]

Just thought i'd add my experience relating to this discussion.

I know of 2 individuals who had married abroad in Pakistan and applied for their spouses to join them in the UK. The marriage didn't work out they ended up divorcing their spouses. But before they received there decree absolutes they had re-married in Pakistan (which is legal in Pakistan). However when it came to applying for spouse visa's they were both refused for the same reason. ECOs reasoning was that they were not free to marry their spouses under British Law. One of these cases were from 2010 and the other from 2014.

They were both clients of a family member who is a OISC advisor and a practicing solicitor for over 20 years. He advised them to re-apply via the fiance/ fiancee route and to explain why they were re-applying via the fiance route rather than the spouse route. Both were succesfull when re-applying.

[secret.simon]

@Alil2014,

Can you provide more details of the 2014 case? Adnan111's contention is that the rules in 2014 were different to the rules in 2010.

Adnan111 argues that a second marriage in Pakistan become legally recognised in the UK when the first marriage is dissolved, whereas Casa's and my understanding is that the second marriage is not recognised in the UK if it was held when the sponsor was not "free to marry" under UK law.

[alil2014]

@Alil2014,

Can you provide more details of the 2014 case? Adnan111's contention is that the rules in 2014 were different to the rules in 2010.

Adnan111 argues that a second marriage in Pakistan become legally recognised in the UK when the first marriage is dissolved, whereas Casa's and my understanding is that the second marriage is not recognised in the UK if it was held when the sponsor was not "free to marry" under UK law.

the refusal point was that:
ECO did acknowledge that the sponsor had obtained the Decree Absolute for the first marriage, however the sponsor was not free to marry under British Law before the decree absolute was issued so it wasn't recognised/void.

Another point is that "...for a polygamous marriage to be considered valid in the UK, the parties must be domiciled in a country where polygamous marriage is permitted, and must have entered into the marriage in a country which permits polygamy."
(source: http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn05051.pdf)
Therefore British Law would not recognise the second 'marriage' as being polygamous because Adnan111 would not be classed as being domiciled in Pakistan where the marriage took place.

Definition of domicile: The country that a person treats as their permanent home, or lives in and has a substantial connection with.

The sponsor in this case would also be classed as being domiciled in the UK otherwise why apply for a UK spouse visa; which is pathway to settlement and citizenship in the UK?

[adnan111]

Visa has been granted. Thank you all for your help and support.

[Casa]

Whew! Good news Adnan. Thanks for letting us know.

[adnan111]

Whew! Good news Adnan. Thanks for letting us know.

You really had me frightened there for a little while, especially with alil2014 chipping in towards the end so I kept my and wife's expectations low to avoid disappointment but I am glad that the legal opinion turned out to be correct, and I didn't have to go down the appeal route.

I appreciated your views and feedback although we disagreed, and it made me do more research which only confirmed the legal opinion I had obtained. I hope that others benefit from the clarity.

[Casa]

I'm sure they will Adnan. Sorry if we gave you a few sleepless nights. It shows how inconsistent ECOs are with their decisions, often forcing applicants to appeal.