Employment hours calculation

[sky_rise]

Hi all,

Will be thankful for your advice - it is crucially important for me at this stage.

My business has one full time person employed for 1 full year on good salary, 40h per week (started October 2014). Currently, we do not have a need in the other full time person, but we do have a need in part-time worker.

Please help to understand the following:

I got the visa on 50k route from PSW in May 2013 (extension due May16), where rules allowed employing people on basis at least 30h per week and where it is ok to have employed one person for 6months and than another for 6months to qualify for one full time year. Or, even 1 person full time for 18 months to qualify for 1.5 person employment etc. if i understand correctly. Please correct if wrong?

1) Do we have to have a contract for employment for at least 30 hrs per week so that I can start counting this hours towards employment, or can it be 15 or 20hrs per week and will it still qualify for employment created and add up? Please kindly help!

2) Should this be a salary based role, or per hour based is workable, too? I mean, if i just keep employing the person part time whenever i need (the same person) - will it still qualify? 15hrs in any case will be the minimum I will employ that person (a PhD student in my case).

Many thanks!

[vfinancials]

I am in the same type of situation here. I have two employees each with 24-26 hours per week. So combining both will be 50 hours a week. Will it be counted as part of 60 hours for two employees or as for just one employee.. If you get your answer somewhere please inform me, I'll try my resources as well. Thanks and looking forward to listen from you.

[sky_rise]

Hi again,

Are there any thoughts on the topic? This is very important.

I employed someone full time for 9 months (40h pw) and the personhad left. Then there was a month gap, and now i am employing an intern for 3 months (on the 30h pw basis). Will this add up to fulfil 1 job creation for 12 months full time?

Now, i need to create another full time employment for 12months. Can i have two interns doing 15h+15h of work weekly, which will be equal to one full time position? I am on the visa from May 2013 - old employment rules apply.

Please kindly advise asap,

Regards,

SR

[sky_rise]

as per the guidance on employment in 2013 (before change)

86.EXAMPLES: We would consider the following as acceptable employment:
• The working hours of two part-time workers can be combined to add up to 30 hours a
week or more and form the equivalent of one full-time post.
• A worker who is employed for part of a year and then leaves the job can be replaced by another worker so that the employment as a whole adds up to 12 months. However, if there is a gap between one worker leaving a post and another worker starting employment, the period when the post is not filled will not be counted. Only periods during which a worker is employed in a post will be considered.
• A single worker can be employed for 24 months. The employment can also be made up of a six-month period for one worker and an 18-month period for another.
• If four workers are employed for 26 weeks (six months) each, their hours of employment may be added together.

Hi again,

Are there any thoughts on the topic? This is very important.

I employed someone full time for 9 months (40h pw) and the personhad left. Then there was a month gap, and now i am employing an intern for 3 months (on the 30h pw basis). Will this add up to fulfil 1 job creation for 12 months full time?

Now, i need to create another full time employment for 12months. Can i have two interns doing 15h+15h of work weekly, which will be equal to one full time position? I am on the visa from May 2013 - old employment rules apply.

Please kindly advise asap,

Regards,

SR

[nasiaziz]

Its the total number of hours which are 3120 in 3 years time.
If you have created 3120 hours in total then u qualify.
Weather by recruiting one person 2 or 3 part time full time etc etc
Just calculate the hours.

[siavashes]

Its the total number of hours which are 3120 in 3 years time.
If you have created 3120 hours in total then u qualify.
Weather by recruiting one person 2 or 3 part time full time etc etc
Just calculate the hours.

please note, you can not just add the hours !!!!

MAXIMUM QUALIFIED hours is 30hours per week per employee, any hours more than that will not consider !!!

it depend your payroll is 4weekly or monthly the maximum qualified hours are p/employee , 120 hours on 4weekly payroll & 130 hours on monthly payroll

[nasiaziz]

Hi
Where does it say that do you have any source?

[nasiaziz]

It clearly says in guidance policy that the examples go beyond the immigration rules
Immigration rules says to create equivalent to two full time posts and then they say two full time posts would be 30hours per week for a period of 12 months each..
So 30 *2 =60 hours
Then 60*52 weeks = 3120 hours.
It can be created by employing any number of people its upto you.
Lets say you hire 2 ppl working 15/week each.
Their weekly total hours would be 30 hours.
If they work for 24 months. Then their total is 3120 hours.which is equivalent to 2 full time posts.

[siavashes]

It clearly says in guidance policy that the examples go beyond the immigration rules
Immigration rules says to create equivalent to two full time posts and then they say two full time posts would be 30hours per week for a period of 12 months each..
So 30 *2 =60 hours
Then 60*52 weeks = 3120 hours.
It can be created by employing any number of people its upto you.
Lets say you hire 2 ppl working 15/week each.
Their weekly total hours would be 30 hours.
If they work for 24 months. Then their total is 3120 hours.which is equivalent to 2 full time posts.

please re-read my post .what u mentioned above, is totally unrelated to what i mentioned in my post. lets make it simple for you , you can NOT claim more than 30 hours per week/per employee . they would not count toward to your job creation point .

Source : paragraph 49 of appendix A
49. A full time job is one involving at least 30 hours of work a week. Two or more part time jobs that add up to 30 hours a week will count as one full time job but one full time job of more than 30 hours work a week will not count as more than one full time job.

[nasiaziz]

But lets say i have recruited 3 ppl on 16 hours a week. And 4th one 35 hours a week.. so the 35 hours one is one full time post and two 16 hours would add upto one full time post.
What about the 3rd 16 hour person is that go as a waste then??? We are still paying him hes part time employee his hours wouldnt count at all then?

[aman90]

But lets say i have recruited 3 ppl on 16 hours a week. And 4th one 35 hours a week.. so the 35 hours one is one full time post and two 16 hours would add upto one full time post.
What about the 3rd 16 hour person is that go as a waste then??? We are still paying him hes part time employee his hours wouldnt count at all then?

When did you get the T1e visa? If before April 2014 then number of hours matter only...The HO recognises a minimum of 30 hours per week to qualify as full time..p.68,A31
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 7_2015.pdf
Im not sure how this reflects on the changes after 2014 as those don't concern me..as far as i remember the applicant needs to show two full time workers for 12 months at least?!? so in that case I suppose the extra 23 hours won't be considered anything...nevertheless you still look good as u are contributing to the economy..Dont get tense,if you have time then email the HO for clarification..

[aman90]

Job Creation p48, https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 7_2015.pdf

152. If you have established new businesses, those businesses must have, between them, created the equivalent of two extra full-time paid jobs for at least two people who are settled in the UK and those jobs must have existed for at least 12 months each.
154. We consider a 30-hour working week to be full-time. Part-time work can form part of the total number of hours of employment created.
These examples go further than the Immigration Rules. The Immigration Rules at Appendix A Tables 5 and 6 state that you must create the equivalent of two or more full-time jobs that have existed for a total of at least 12 months during your last period of leave as an Entrepreneur in order to extend your leave or meet the settlement criteria. Appendix A, paragraphs 49 and 50 provide additional explanation.
For those applying for entry clearance or switching into the route from 6 April 2014, the employment must be for at least two separate jobs, and must exist for at least a full 12 months each.

49. A full time job is one involving at least 30 hours of work a week. Two or more part time jobs that add up to 30 hours a week will count as one full time job but one full time job of more than 30 hours work a week will not count as more than one full time job.
50. Where the applicant's last grant of entry clearance or leave was as a Tier (Entrepreneur) Migrant, the jobs must have existed for a total of at least 12 months during the period in which the migrant had leave in that category. This need not consist of 12 consecutive months and the jobs need not exist at the date of application, provided they existed for at least 12 months during the period in which the migrant had leave as a Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) Migrant. p39
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... ndix_A.pdf

My understanding: To fulfil this requirement a minimum 2 separate positions for 12months each (not consecutive) within the period of 3 years, can be filled by X number of people to fulfil the required number of hours for those posts....so I guess this means you can't have someone for example working 50 hours per week for a position (although doctors do but it is frowned upon) and consider the 20 hours over and above the 30 to add to the second post and hire a part timer to make up for the balance,,,
Siavashes,Am I correct..? I hope I making sense..please everyone fee free to disagree so that we all can probe it further..

[nasiaziz]

@aman90
thanks for your reply
i recruited my first employee on a 16 hours/week from may 2015.
second employee 35 hours/week from june 2015.
3rd employee 16 hours / week from july 2015.
so the 35 hours / week employee is ok so far.
what concerns me is the 16 hours / week first emplyee who startted in may 2015 and i didnt have the second part timer untill month of july 2015 to add up 32 hours / week for both to make it one full time post..
so in the months of may and june 2015 the hours of part timers 16/ week.. wouldnt be considered at all then..
i dont understand they say that hours of part time worker can be used to claim the hours.
its confusing as my two months of hours will go wasted..or would it still be considered.
i got my visa before april 2014.
please help if you can.. also could anyone give me an email address for home office so i can contact them regarding this issue.
thanks

[aman90]

@aman90
thanks for your reply
i recruited my first employee on a 16 hours/week from may 2015.
second employee 35 hours/week from june 2015.
3rd employee 16 hours / week from july 2015.
so the 35 hours / week employee is ok so far.
what concerns me is the 16 hours / week first emplyee who startted in may 2015 and i didnt have the second part timer untill month of july 2015 to add up 32 hours / week for both to make it one full time post..
so in the months of may and june 2015 the hours of part timers 16/ week.. wouldnt be considered at all then..
i dont understand they say that hours of part time worker can be used to claim the hours.
its confusing as my two months of hours will go wasted..or would it still be considered.
i got my visa before april 2014.
please help if you can.. also could anyone give me an email address for home office so i can contact them regarding this issue.
thanks

Hey..I think your doing ok..
Just to explain the part time worker scenario..
For example: You create a full time post as per requirement for a receptionist, 30 hours per week, you can hire 3 part timers to fulfil these hours 10+10+10 for at least 12 months. The hours of all three don't need to be concurrent as people come and go..all you need to prove is that you fulfilled the required number of hours. Ur accountant or who ever does the PAYE will sort it out..No point in creating a position worth 35/40/60 hours as that will still count towards one post...Jobs in UK are on pro rata basis..
As per requirement 2 posts of 12 months each...Youve actually fulfilled it by the number of hours.. Currently ur 2 part timers and 1 full-timer are fulfilling the criteria i.e. if you complete 12months..Really I don't think you need to be worried..as you ur probably up for extension somewhere in 2017 as you ve stated you got the visa before April 2014...I believe you ll manage. I know this is stressful and a lot is at stake so you don't want to make any mistakes..but really ur fine, as much as Ive understood the scenario..dont worry

[nasiaziz]

HI AMAN PLEASE CHECK YOUR INBOX.
YOU DIDNT TELL ME ABOUT THE HOURS ONE OF MY WORKER WORKED IN MAY AND JUNE 16/WEEK, WOULD THEY COUNT TOWARDS THE EMPLOYMENT OR NO..AS YOU SAID ANY HOURS ABOVE THE 30 HOURS WOULDNT BE COUNTED SO WHAT ABT IF THE HOURS ARE LESS THAN 30 BUT ONLY ONE EMPLOYEE IS WORKING IT.THAT WOULDNT COUNT WOULD IT???

[ds007]

for any one employee working more than 30 hours per week will not count for job creation.

but under old rules a 30 hours by one and 20 hours by the other will count. as 50 hours and need 3120 hours in total. that is my understanding .

[nasiaziz]

Can anyone confirm.this from home office or has confirmed plz let us know.

[nasiaziz]

for any one employee working more than 30 hours per week will not count for job creation.

but under old rules a 30 hours by one and 20 hours by the other will count. as 50 hours and need 3120 hours in total. that is my understanding .

I think i agree with you it says that after april 2014 who ever got the visa has to create two separate full time posts and then they explain.it further in the section 49 and 50 what a full time post is..
For anyone before april 2014 it will be the total number of hours 3120 regardless of the num of employee and any num of hours each work..
That what i am concluding from all of the above.. does anyone agree with me?

[Momi]

Let me clear it more, if some one has applied before 6th April 2014 and got the visa then he falls under old policy guidance. I applied on 4th April and got visa on 22 May. I confirmed it from many immigration consultants and home office as well and everyone said the same thing as stated above.
Can any senior add some more information?

for any one employee working more than 30 hours per week will not count for job creation.

but under old rules a 30 hours by one and 20 hours by the other will count. as 50 hours and need 3120 hours in total. that is my understanding .

I think i agree with you it says that after april 2014 who ever got the visa has to create two separate full time posts and then they explain.it further in the section 49 and 50 what a full time post is..
For anyone before april 2014 it will be the total number of hours 3120 regardless of the num of employee and any num of hours each work..
That what i am concluding from all of the above.. does anyone agree with me?

[ds007]

I am quite sure that old rules only apply if you entered UK on this route before 6th april 2014

[Momi]

http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... l#p1141012

See this thread.

I am quite sure that old rules only apply if you entered UK on this route before 6th april 2014

[nasiaziz]

Let me clear it more, if some one has applied before 6th April 2014 and got the visa then he falls under old policy guidance. I applied on 4th April and got visa on 22 May. I confirmed it from many immigration consultants and home office as well and everyone said the same thing as stated above.
Can any senior add some more information?

for any one employee working more than 30 hours per week will not count for job creation.

but under old rules a 30 hours by one and 20 hours by the other will count. as 50 hours and need 3120 hours in total. that is my understanding .

I think i agree with you it says that after april 2014 who ever got the visa has to create two separate full time posts and then they explain.it further in the section 49 and 50 what a full time post is..
For anyone before april 2014 it will be the total number of hours 3120 regardless of the num of employee and any num of hours each work..
That what i am concluding from all of the above.. does anyone agree with me?

hi momi
i got it back in oct 2013. so do i only need to fulfil the requirement of 3120 hours regardless of num of employee or hours
e.g if someone works 40 hours for me and another 20 so total is considered as 60 hours which is equivalent to 2 full time posts????
please anyone whos got it confirmed from home office share your views as it is very important and we dont want to go on the wrong way resulting in a refusal.
thanks

[nasiaziz]

or is it even under the OLD rules any one employee working more than 30 hours lets say 40 hours only 30 would be taken towards the total hours of 3120. but any part timers lets say 2 twenty hours workers each i.e 20 hours one employee and 20 hours second employee would total upto 40 hours and would be considered 40 hours towards 3120..
so which of the following would be acceptable under the old rules before april 2014.
Total hours considered would be 40+20+20=80 hours total
OR
Total hours considered would be 30+20+20=70 hours total.
thanks

[aman90]

or is it even under the OLD rules any one employee working more than 30 hours lets say 40 hours only 30 would be taken towards the total hours of 3120. but any part timers lets say 2 twenty hours workers each i.e 20 hours one employee and 20 hours second employee would total upto 40 hours and would be considered 40 hours towards 3120..
so which of the following would be acceptable under the old rules before april 2014.
Total hours considered would be 40+20+20=80 hours total
OR
Total hours considered would be 30+20+20=70 hours total.
thanks

Plz check ur inbox..yes I believe those hours will be counted, 2 people don't need to be working at the same time to complete the hours..Earlier some of us had discussed and agreed on the fact that the aggregate number of hours of 2 full time jobs would be sufficient for extension for the ones who received their visa before April 2014. This can be best answered by those who have attained extension.. The guidelines language/semantics is ambiguous and open to interpretation I believe the HO understood this and changed their guidelines to the incumbent..

[nasiaziz]

which of the following would be acceptable?



Total hours considered would be 40+20+20=80 hours total
OR
Total hours considered would be 30+20+20=70 hours total.
thanks