PR Enquiry

[axeman85]

Please guys need some info here

I came to the UK as a dependant of the spouse of an EEA national (my dad ) in April 2005 I went ahead to full time education, college, degree I was issued series of RC with the last one expiring in 2013. My dads wife then went back to her EU country (Germany) they are not separated . it's just that she doesn't speak English so no point being in UK.

My dad however refused to collect his German passport all the while until 2011/2012 when he collected this.

After my RC expired in 2013 , we applied for another RC and was issued in Nov 2013 for another 5years.

My sister applied for BC last year but was refused in July this year based on the fact that under the qualifying 5year period she did not provide the EEA national proof of exercising treaty rights which was my stepmum

However my dad who is now an EEA national and will be clocking 5years that he collected his German passport in 2016 has now ceased activity because he has attained pension age late 2013

Can I go ahead an apply for PR same time as him next year when he decided to get his own PR. ?

We have all been living together as a family since 2005 and also note that in 2011 I had an accident abroad so I stopped working and just doing small buying and selling just to enable me do basic things. I also closed my bank account and also I don't have any utility bills in my name as its all in my dads name. But I have tax returns from my accountant for the small income I was making from my business BUT am starting a new job nxt week

Please kindly assist good people

[axeman85]

Gurus in the house, kindly assist me

[noajthan]

Please guys need some info here

I came to the UK as a dependant of the spouse of an EEA national (my dad ) in April 2005 I went ahead to full time education, college, degree I was issued series of RC with the last one expiring in 2013. My dads wife then went back to her EU country (Germany) they are not separated . it's just that she doesn't speak English so no point being in UK.

My dad however refused to collect his German passport all the while until 2011/2012 when he collected this.

After my RC expired in 2013, we applied for another RC and was issued in Nov 2013 for another 5years.

My sister applied for BC last year but was refused in July this year based on the fact that under the qualifying 5year period she did not provide the EEA national proof of exercising treaty rights which was my stepmum

However my dad who is now an EEA national and will be clocking 5years that he collected his German passport in 2016 has now ceased activity because he has attained pension age late 2013

Can I go ahead an apply for PR same time as him next year when he decided to get his own PR. ?

We have all been living together as a family since 2005 and also note that in 2011 I had an accident abroad so I stopped working and just doing small buying and selling just to enable me do basic things. I also closed my bank account and also I don't have any utility bills in my name as its all in my dads name. But I have tax returns from my accountant for the small income I was making from my business BUT am starting a new job next week

Please kindly assist good people

It's a little hard to understand the timelines & piece it all together.

This is what I have...

I think originally your father was a non-EEA citizen and the spouse of an EEA (German national), his wife (who is your step-mother).

The wife was not exercising treaty rights while in UK (so, for example, your sister's PR/citizenship application failed);
the lady (German step-mother) has now left UK.

In the meantime, father has become an EEA national (German) but remains living in UK with you (& your sister ? ).

Is that an accurate summary

If your father has been & still is exercising treaty rights in UK then he should acquire PR automatically after 5 years.
Potentially, you would acquire PR too, as the family member of an EEA national.
(That means details of your activity in UK is irrelevant - instead it all depends on your sponsor's activity).

btw - your father won't "decide to get PR".
If he qualifies (ie by exercising treaty rights continuously, in UK, for 5 years) it will be acquired automatically & he will then have settled status in UK.
(It is then optional if he applies for a PR card which would serve to confirm his status).

So the main questions are:

1) has your father been exercising treaty rights in UK continuously
For example, first as a worker (for approx 2 years from 2011-2013) and latterly as a self-sufficient person (eg retired) person.

If so he would attain PR sometime in 2016 & therefore so would you.

2) To be further sure you need to dig into the requirements for a self-sufficient person.

To be treated as a self-sufficient qualified person (exercising free movement & treaty rights) one requirement is to hold CSI (or an alternative).

You will need to investigate whether your father has adequate CSI now he is retired as, under EU regulations, HO will want to see confirmation that he is a self-sufficient person under their rules.

Don't forget HO will also want to see that the self-sufficient person has resources which exceed the maximum level of resources to qualify for UK social assistance.
They will take into account the personal situation of the applicant and family members.

Ref: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... s_v3_0.pdf

btw - once PR has been acquired (automatically) it's then up to each person, individually, if they want to apply for a PR card;
(incidentally PR can usually only be lost if the holder is absent from UK for 2 years or more).

Note If you are a non-EEA national (I think you must be) then be careful your father does not naturalise as a UK citizen before you do or your immigration status in UK can be put at risk.

Once you have settled status (& assuming all other requirements are met) you can shoot for UK citizenship after holding PR for at least a year, (unless you do something drastic in the meantime like marrying a BC; doing so means you could apply immediately after marriage).

Anyway best proceed step by step.

Hope it makes sense.
Best of luck.

[noajthan]

A suggestion...

if you encounter any difficulty with achieving settled status (PR) under EU regulations you could look into obtaining your settled status as ILR, in your own right, on the basis of your 10 years 'long residence' in UK.

Clearly the EU PR route is preferable; it's more straightforward (& involves much less outlay) if you can go that way.

I'm not sure if you meet all the requirements for ILR (did you come into UK on any visa?) but it's worth putting on the table as a possible fallback plan.

Ref: https://www.gov.uk/long-residence/overview

[secret.simon]

After my RC expired in 2013 , we applied for another RC and was issued in Nov 2013 for another 5years.

On what basis were you issued the RC in 2013?

My dad however refused to collect his German passport all the while until 2011/2012 when he collected this.

Do you mean that your father only became a German citizen in 2011/12? If he only became an EEA citizen then, he can only exercise treaty rights when he became a German citizen. His wife (your step-mother) had ceased to exercise treaty rights when she returned to Germany.

My sister applied for BC last year but was refused in July this year based on the fact that under the qualifying 5year period she did not provide the EEA national proof of exercising treaty rights which was my stepmum.

However my dad who is now an EEA national and will be clocking 5years that he collected his German passport in 2016 has now ceased activity because he has attained pension age late 2013

That decision is correct. Your father has not yet completed five years of exercising treaty rights and your step-mother has ceased to exercise treaty rights in the UK.

I am not entirely clear whether your father would qualify as exercising treaty rights if he has retired from work. It may be that his living on his pension qualifies for self-sufficiency, but I am not absolutely certain and would await comments from other members of the forum.

In any case, he would need to have had CSI to be considered for self-sufficiency. If he did not have that for any period of time, his exercise for treaty rights would be broken and his clock would have restarted when he purchased CSI.

So, there is a good chance that he will not qualify for PR in 2016 if he does not or has not had CSI for any duration. PR requires five continuous years of exercising treaty rights.

You have not mentioned your age. That may be pertinent when looking into the ILR Long residence route as advised by noajthan. That seems to me to be the best option for you at the moment.

[noajthan]

...

I am not entirely clear whether your father would qualify as exercising treaty rights if he has retired from work. It may be that his living on his pension qualifies for self-sufficiency, but I am not absolutely certain and would await comments from other members of the forum.

In any case, he would need to have had CSI to be considered for self-sufficiency. If he did not have that for any period of time, his exercise for treaty rights would be broken and his clock would have restarted when he purchased CSI.

So, there is a good chance that he will not qualify for PR in 2016 if he does not or has not had CSI for any duration. PR requires five continuous years of exercising treaty rights.

...

I may not have been clear, the family members who are dependent on the self-sufficient person also need evidence of CSI (whether their own or the sponsor's CSI).

Be careful to make sure you have CSI in place if the sponsor's CSI (your father's) isn't comprehensive enough to include all dependents too

See http://immigrationmatters.co.uk/eea-nat ... ent-page-1

[axeman85]

@noajthan,

You are correct, stepmum was not exercising treaty rights hence citizenship request was declined Ed.
2)yes father not EEA national. He already had EEA PR all along BUT just collected his EEA passport and will clock 5yers of having it June 2016.
3)yes he had been a worker all his life and retired due to pension age in 2013 ending after we were given 5years RC as his dependant and he has lived in the UK since 1999.
4) I don't think CSi is relevant for him as a German national as since 2005 that I came to UK and renewing my RC we have never been asked for it and also a pensioner who has worked since 1999 in UK till 2013 when he retired.
5) I came to the UK on an RC family member of EEA national in 2005.

@secretsimon.

1) issued RC in 2013 as dependant of EEA national. My father
2) yes he collected his German passport in 2011/2012 but he has held PR in Germany for a long time.
3) well for the CSI am not sure I will have to confirm and I will be 30 April 2016
4) he had to retire early even tho he had attained pension age to look after my sister who is sick.
5) I will be 30 in April 2016 and I had been in full time education since 2005 till 2010, worked till 2011 had an accident broke my arm and just found some odd cash in hand job as was getting support from my dad and sis till recently that I am starting full time employment again.

So if my dad has CSI then I should be fine for PR in 2016 same time he will aply for confirmation of his PR ?

[noajthan]

@noajthan,

You are correct, stepmum was not exercising treaty rights hence citizenship request was declined Ed.
2)yes father not EEA national. He already had EEA PR all along BUT just collected his EEA passport and will clock 5yers of having it June 2016.
3)yes he had been a worker all his life and retired due to pension age in 2013 ending after we were given 5years RC as his dependant and he has lived in the UK since 1999.
4) I don't think CSi is relevant for him as a German national as since 2005 that I came to UK and renewing my RC we have never been asked for it and also a pensioner who has worked since 1999 in UK till 2013 when he retired.
5) I came to the UK on an RC family member of EEA national in 2005.

@secretsimon.

1) issued RC in 2013 as dependant of EEA national. My father
2) yes he collected his German passport in 2011/2012 but he has held PR in Germany for a long time.
3) well for the CSI am not sure I will have to confirm and I will be 30 April 2016
4) he had to retire early even tho he had attained pension age to look after my sister who is sick.
5) I will be 30 in April 2016 and I had been in full time education since 2005 till 2010, worked till 2011 had an accident broke my arm and just found some odd cash in hand job as was getting support from my dad and sis till recently that I am starting full time employment again.

So if my dad has CSI then I should be fine for PR in 2016 same time he will aply for confirmation of his PR ?

You may not have been asked to prove CSI but CSI is a significant factor if you apply as the dependent of a self-sufficient person.

Similarly, as you are not a minor, proof your sponsor is supporting you will be significant too.

Note Your activities before 2011 will not be considered as your father seems to have become an EEA national in 2011 or 2012. This sets your start date as a dependent of EEA national.

If you are risk-averse you may wish to shoot for confirmation of PR first rather than going for home run of naturalisation immediately.

[axeman85]

@noajthan

Thanks very much for your response..

Looking at the PR form for EEA national I did not mention anywhere about CSI.

1) However I confirmed from my dad now and he says he has Health Insurance ( is there difference between health insurance and CSI) even tho he is still entitled to NHS trust treatment t and medications and also he gets his pension from the government.

2) from all your comments what I can deduce is that as a former worker who has now retired due to pension age and gets his government pension, he is classed as self sufficient.

3)I live with him, no bills in my name as such cos as I said earlier I had an accident in 2011 which prevented me from working so all I have been doing is just small cash in hand jobs I get . I don't even have a bank account because there was no point as I wasn't working. BUT since am starting work now, I have e opened an account and that's prob ably the only proof of living together apart from some NHs letters and HO letter which was sent when we were given RC in 2013

4) exactly he will be applying for confirmation of PR and I will be applying for PR same time

And worse case scenario, I can use the 10year route as I have resided legally here for 10years + cos I came to the country in April 2005

[noajthan]

@noajthan

Thanks very much for your response..

Looking at the PR form for EEA national I did not mention anywhere about CSI.

1) However I confirmed from my dad now and he says he has Health Insurance ( is there difference between health insurance and CSI) even tho he is still entitled to NHS trust treatment t and medications and also he gets his pension from the government.

2) from all your comments what I can deduce is that as a former worker who has now retired due to pension age and gets his government pension, he is classed as self sufficient.

3)I live with him, no bills in my name as such cos as I said earlier I had an accident in 2011 which prevented me from working so all I have been doing is just small cash in hand jobs I get . I don't even have a bank account because there was no point as I wasn't working. BUT since am starting work now, I have e opened an account and that's probably the only proof of living together apart from some NHS letters and HO letter which was sent when we were given RC in 2013

4) exactly he will be applying for confirmation of PR and I will be applying for PR same time

And worse case scenario, I can use the 10year route as I have resided legally here for 10years + cos I came to the country in April 2005

1) Good

2) Yes, for your father to be considered a qualified person still exercising treaty rights, the appropriate category would be self-sufficient person

See this guidance, (page 23) regarding health insurance/CSI & about support of dependents:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... s_v3_0.pdf

[axeman85]

@ noathjan

Thanks very much, you have been so helpful.