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Naturalisation - no WRS registration

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

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eastberks44
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Naturalisation - no WRS registration

Post by eastberks44 » Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:01 pm

I am a British citizen married to a Hungarian. My wife came to the UK in 2010 and was initially self-employed continuing to work for a Hungarian client. With a few weeks of arriving she obtained a UK national insurance number, but by the time she started work for a UK employer the WRS was already defunct.
She is now being told that she has to wait until May 2016 to apply for citizenship. Is this correct? I thought that being married to a UK citizen meant the residency requirement was only 3 years.

noajthan
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Re: Naturalisation - no WRS registration

Post by noajthan » Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:21 pm

eastberks44 wrote:I am a British citizen married to a Hungarian. My wife came to the UK in 2010 and was initially self-employed continuing to work for a Hungarian client. With a few weeks of arriving she obtained a UK national insurance number, but by the time she started work for a UK employer the WRS was already defunct.
She is now being told that she has to wait until May 2016 to apply for citizenship. Is this correct? I thought that being married to a UK citizen meant the residency requirement was only 3 years.
Sadly EEA nationals require 5 years of residency as a 'qualified person' exercising treaty rights in the UK.
(EEA nationals not married to a British citizen would need an additional 12 months after fulfilling their 5 years of residency).

See section 2 here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... n_2015.pdf
If you are national of a member state of the EEA and do not have indefinite leave to remain in the United Kingdom, you will need to have been resident in the United Kingdom for at least five years even if you are married to a British citizen
The WRS was abolished in May 2011 hence the nominal calculation until May 2016.

If your wife can show she qualified as a 'self-employed' person (a category that didn't have to register on the WRS) then changed her status to that of another qualified person it may be possible to count time served from 2010.

You would have to dig in to all the requirements for each category to ensure they have been satisfied.
(For example, workers would have had to enrol on WRS before May 20111. 'Self-sufficient' persons would have needed CSI).

Note your wife will also have to show she was physically present in UK on the day 5 years before date of application;
also meet the KOLL requirements;
also check any absences from UK too;
(etc, etc)

Best of luck.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

eastberks44
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Re: Citizenship - English language requirements

Post by eastberks44 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:40 pm

I have a related question. My Hungarian wife has a degree in Journalism from the USA which ought to fulfil the English Language test. I have followed the instructions on using the points based calculator. I can find the institution listed (University of Lincoln, Nebraska) and the level of the qualification (Bachelors) but the precise subject is not listed and the resulting PBS printout shows 10 points obtained for a degree in subject "Other".

Will this be accepted, or will she need to make a specific application to NARIC and pay a fee?

eastberks44
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Re: EU citizen filling AN form for naturalisation

Post by eastberks44 » Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:10 pm

Hi I am a Hungarian citizen who has just tried - twice - completing the AN form. Below is a summary of my position
1. Married a UK citizen in Budapest in 2002
2. We moved and settled permanently in the UK in April 2010. As our child was still young enough to need me at home full time, I did not immediately seek employment but did obtain a UK national Insurance number for the purpose of claiming Child Benefit. I started applying for jobs only after the Workers Registration Scheme became defunct
3. I have a bachelors degree in Journalism from the USA
4. I took the 'old' Life in the UK test in 2013 and was assured at the time that the result would still be valid even after the new test was introduced.
5. I have been working nearly full time as a supply teacher since July 2013, having had my Hungarian teaching qualification recognised by the UK teaching Agency.
6. My only brush with the law since entering the UK is a speeding ticket 6 months ago.

I have spoken to 2 different people at my local authority's Nationality Checking Service, the first one said I should have been eligible after 3 years on the grounds of being married to a UK citizen, but the second told me not to bother booking an appointment as I had failed to register under the WRS so I would have to wait until the 5th anniversary of it becoming defunct.

Now I don't want to find out come May 2016 that there's some other document that has to be applied for before the citizenship application process can begin. So is there anything I can or should apply for now, for example PR / ILR, or a biometric record?

All replies will be greatly appreciated.

noajthan
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Re: EU citizen filling AN form for naturalisation

Post by noajthan » Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:37 pm

eastberks44 wrote:Hi I am a Hungarian citizen who has just tried - twice - completing the AN form. Below is a summary of my position
1. Married a UK citizen in Budapest in 2002
2. We moved and settled permanently in the UK in April 2010. As our child was still young enough to need me at home full time, I did not immediately seek employment but did obtain a UK national Insurance number for the purpose of claiming Child Benefit. I started applying for jobs only after the Workers Registration Scheme became defunct
3. I have a bachelors degree in Journalism from the USA
4. I took the 'old' Life in the UK test in 2013 and was assured at the time that the result would still be valid even after the new test was introduced.
5. I have been working nearly full time as a supply teacher since July 2013, having had my Hungarian teaching qualification recognised by the UK teaching Agency.
6. My only brush with the law since entering the UK is a speeding ticket 6 months ago.

I have spoken to 2 different people at my local authority's Nationality Checking Service, the first one said I should have been eligible after 3 years on the grounds of being married to a UK citizen, but the second told me not to bother booking an appointment as I had failed to register under the WRS so I would have to wait until the 5th anniversary of it becoming defunct.

Now I don't want to find out come May 2016 that there's some other document that has to be applied for before the citizenship application process can begin. So is there anything I can or should apply for now, for example PR / ILR, or a biometric record?

All replies will be greatly appreciated.
If you did not come to UK with a visa (ie under UK Immigration Rules) then you are operating under EU rules.
To naturalise you need settled status ie ILR (through Immigration Rules) or PR (via EU rules).

To acquire PR you need to be in UK exercising treaty rights as a qualified person (eg worker, jobseeker, student, self-sufficient etc).
(Note: To be considered a student or self-sufficient person you will have to have had CSI in place).

Once you have exercised treaty rights (in 1 or more of these categories), continuously, for 5 years you will automatically attain PR. It doesn't have to be 'applied for' as such.
(It is then optional whether you apply for a PR card ie simply confirmation of PR status).

As spouse of BC you do not need to hold settled status for a further 12 months (as a non-spouse would), you could apply for naturalisation directly;
(assuming all other requirements are met, eg KOLL, absences within limits, sound mind, good character, physically present in UK 5 years before date of application, etc).

It sounds like your PR clock may have started as a worker in 2013 unless you can claim treaty rights as a student before then (?), or possibly self-sufficient status since 2010 until you started work.

In terms of good character the most recent 12 months before applying for naturalisation are most critical.
Experience & guidance in this forum suggests HO tolerates 1 FPN in a year.

Best of luck.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

eastberks44
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EEA national and married to UK citizen

Post by eastberks44 » Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:48 pm

If you're an EEA national you can apply for citizenship after 5 years of living in the UK and exercising treaty rights...

If you're married to a UK citizen you can apply after 3 years of living in the UK with indefinite leave to remain...

But I find the guidance very unclear about how these two factors interact together, and have had different answers from different people at my local authority's NCS office.

Does anyone have any clues?

Should I be eligible after 3 years after entry? or 5? Or is there some other document, which I have not neeed up until now to live and work in the UK, that I would need before the "clock starts ticking"?

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CR001
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Re: EEA national and married to UK citizen

Post by CR001 » Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:55 pm

You can only apply for citizenship once you have attained permanent residence (PR) after 5 years of exercising treaty rights. Once you have PR, you can apply immediately for citizen as the spouse of a British citizen.

Spouse visas under the UK immigration rules used to be 2 years, then 1 year of ILR and then citizenship.

All routes now are 5 years to ILR / PR and then 1 year ILR / PR before citizenship unless a spouse of British citizen then you don't need to wait 1 year on ILR /PR.

ILR is the UK Immigration rules. PR is for EU nationals under the EU directive.
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eastberks44
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Re: EEA national and married to UK citizen

Post by eastberks44 » Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:01 pm

So does that mean I should apply for a PR document first and apply for citizenship after I have it?

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CR001
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Re: EEA national and married to UK citizen

Post by CR001 » Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:31 pm

eastberks44 wrote:So does that mean I should apply for a PR document first and apply for citizenship after I have it?
You obtain PR automatically but if you want to apply for citizenship I would suggest applying for confirmation of PR after 5 years of being a qualified person / exercising treaty rights.
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Please DO NOT send me a PM for immigration advice. I reserve the right to ignore the PM and not respond.

noajthan
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Re: EEA national and married to UK citizen

Post by noajthan » Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:47 pm

eastberks44 wrote:If you're an EEA national you can apply for citizenship after 5 years of living in the UK and exercising treaty rights...

If you're married to a UK citizen you can apply after 3 years of living in the UK with indefinite leave to remain...

But I find the guidance very unclear about how these two factors interact together, and have had different answers from different people at my local authority's NCS office.

Does anyone have any clues?

Should I be eligible after 3 years after entry? or 5? Or is there some other document, which I have not need up until now to live and work in the UK, that I would need before the "clock starts ticking"?
Go to the guidance rather than relying on helpline or NCS - see sections 2, 4, 6 for example:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... n_2015.pdf
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

eastberks44
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Re: EEA national and married to UK citizen

Post by eastberks44 » Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:16 pm

OK so it's the proof of exercising treaty rights that catches out people in my position (as opposed to single people who would have entered the UK primarily to take a job).
For the first year after the WRS ceased, I worked part time as a journalist for a Hungarian client, my husband paid me and invoiced the client through his own UK registered company. Pay slips, PAYE records, bank statements and invoices to the client can all be provided.
The arrangement ceased part way through the 2012/13 tax year so while I have a PAYE record for that year I will not have a payslip for every month. I then started applying for teaching jobs, and have kept the applications and replies. Will these be enough to cover the gap, or would I need to have been registered at the local Job Centre?
From 2013/14 onwards I have worked as a supply teacher on zero-hours contracts for up to 3 concurrent employers. Payslips and PAYE records are available.

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