Is UK Doing Enough to assist with the EU refugee crisis

[Obie]

The are growing debate in the world about the UK action, or rather inaction in regards to the Refugee crisis that has engulfed Europe .

It is important to note that the root causes of these instability and refugees crisis has a lot to do with the war in Syria , Iraq and Afghanistan, which unfortunately was of the UK and American's making to a large extent, not to mention Libya of course, which has been taken from the frying pot to the fire. Thanks to the instability caused by the UK intervention, which has led to splitting of Libya into 2. There is also virtually no control over Libya's water, and therefore people smuggler are able to rein with impunity, putting lives of thousands of vulnerable people at risk.

German people and Germany as a nation has dealt with this crisis in a very dignified and humane way. Mrs Merkel has taken on the Zenophobe from the Saxon clan and region, neck and neck, tooth an nail.

This week UK government change its dearly beloved stands, from the miserable and disgraceful 214 Syrian that it had taken, to a proposed increase in thousands.

It is worth noting that this is by far too small. Germany a nation of 80 Million has offered to welcome 800000, therefore UK with a population of over 60 million should be offering help to at least 600000, but rather according to the UN, the UK has offered 4,000 places. The German offer, by far dwarfs the UK disgraceful help, that they are masquerading as assistance.

Germans are in there thousands, offering homes to refugees, Sweden , Malta , Greece, Italy are all playing their part, whiles UK is busy building its fence in Calais, and Viktor Orban their friend in Hungary continues to build its ineffective fence along the Serbia border, whiles sprouting his abhorrent dearly beloved and Islamophobic garbage. Even the Finnish President has offered to use his home to host refugee.

Even Emma Thompson and Sir Bob Geldof has expressed concerns about the UK's attitude towards the refugee. Even Nicola Sturgeon, the Scottish First Minister, was reduced to tears, when she saw the lifeless body of the poor Aylan Kurdi, the Syrian Kurdish body, that drowned on his way to sanctuary. Had nations like UK pulled their weight Aylan may be alive today.

When will the UK think and act like the Germans and play their own role?

How will history judge the UK in this Crisis?

Germany will be remembered for welcoming it's 800000, and providing sanctuary to these people during their time of need, whiles UK will be remembered for its fence in Calais, it disgraceful offer of 214 places, and refusal to be part of a European redistribution.

Mama Merkel, Sweden and other nations will be on the right side in history, whiles UK will be an isolated, dearly beloved and zenophobic nations refusing to help refugee in their time of need, and calling them swamps , refusing to describe them as refugee, but rather calling them migrant, in an attempt to dehumanize them and justify their hostile approach to these people.

How do Brits think about their nation in this crisis?

I am very appalled.

[Wanderer]

You know me Obie, often labelled the site dearly beloved but this is terrible. UK and EU and USA who are mostly culpable for this mess, should do more.

Corbyn has it spot on....

[Obie]

Wanderer stop winding me up . You are no dearly beloved.

I agree the UK and USA and some EU nation are responsible.

Germany should not have to pay for their actions.

However seeing the hospitality showed by the Germans, it makes me feel like being German .

Even the President of Finland is offering his home.

What is Cameron offering , just dearly beloved overtone , calling people swamps , building fences in Calais.

Only Germany has shown leadership in this matter.

[AUHS]

Hats of to Germany !!! Agree to the above posts that UK USA need to do more and Also Shame on Arab Countries .. Saudi Arabia .. UAE .. Qatar .. Kuwait .. Bahrain .. Oman .. They have recourses and all the Means and spend billions dollars on their Non senses .. But doing Nothing for The Humanity !!

[secret.simon]

To offer a counterbalance, I agree with the restraint that Cameron has exercised in this crisis. It is not often that I think that the government is right on immigration, but this situation is one such.

To begin with, the fact that the refugees are not satisfied with asylum where they are safe but that they are making they are way to wealthier countries suggests to me that it is not a refugee crisis, but an economic migrant crisis.

Secondly, look at the TV coverage. In any wide angle view, you can clearly see that the vast majority (at the very least 2/3) of the refugees are young men. Yet, the coverage has been mainly of the women and children. It appears to me that the women and children are being used as a grotesque camouflage for essentially economic migration.

Part of me is also hurt by the fact that everybody's heart bleeds for these migrants and yet there is not a whisper about the hurdles that we cover on these boards daily of getting the families of British citizens and people settled in these isles. If we have spare capacity, I think that problem requires as much attention as the migrants from the Med.

If they are genuine refugees, I think the EU should look at working the way Australia does. It sends the refugees to Nauru, which is a perfectly safe place, but an economic backwater. The EU should perhaps work out agreements with Iceland or the overseas territories of its members to house these migrants. They will be perfectly safe from Syria, but let us see how many migrants will want to be housed in safe places like St Helena or Reunion.

And finally, I think that these migrants need to be reminded that Europe is welcoming BECAUSE it is not the Middle East and that they should leave their tribal cultures and prejudices there. The last thing we need is Turkish/Kurdish or Shia/Sunni fights on the streets of Europe. If they want to fight, let them fight in their home country.

PS: Xenophobia - Fear of foreigners; Zenophobia - presumably, fear of the philosopher Zeno.

[noajthan]

To offer a counterbalance, I agree with the restraint that Cameron has exercised in this crisis. It is not often that I think that the government is right on immigration, but this situation is one such.

To begin with, the fact that the refugees are not satisfied with asylum where they are safe but that they are making they are way to wealthier countries suggests to me that it is not a refugee crisis, but an economic migrant crisis.

Secondly, look at the TV coverage. In any wide angle view, you can clearly see that the vast majority (at the very least 2/3) of the refugees are young men. Yet, the coverage has been mainly of the women and children. It appears to me that the women and children are being used as a grotesque camouflage for essentially economic migration.

Part of me is also hurt by the fact that everybody's heart bleeds for these migrants and yet there is not a whisper about the hurdles that we cover on these boards daily of getting the families of British citizens and people settled in these isles. If we have spare capacity, I think that problem requires as much attention as the migrants from the Med.

If they are genuine refugees, I think the EU should look at working the way Australia does. It sends the refugees to Nauru, which is a perfectly safe place, but an economic backwater. The EU should perhaps work out agreements with Iceland or the overseas territories of its members to house these migrants. They will be perfectly safe from Syria, but let us see how many migrants will want to be housed in safe places like St Helena or Reunion.

And finally, I think that these migrants need to be reminded that Europe is welcoming BECAUSE it is not the Middle East and that they should leave their tribal cultures and prejudices there. The last thing we need is Turkish/Kurdish or Shia/Sunni fights on the streets of Europe. If they want to fight, let them fight in their home country.

PS: Xenophobia - Fear of foreigners; Zenophobia - presumably, fear of the philosopher Zeno.

+1

Culturally, linguistically, economically there are options & (potential) safe havens much closer to home countries. For example, I'm looking at you GCC states.

Whatever Western countries do for the refugees, it will only be a sticky plaster solution. The number of refugees is already too large for a viable resettlement programme outside the region.

See the figures involved (4m+), here:
http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/regional.php

Why are some Muslim governments seemingly indifferent to this plight, and why are people from the region fleeing to Europe for safety and prosperity?

It is not because regional countries lack the capacity to cope with the problem. The region has unimaginable wealth. It has constructed the tallest buildings, built lavish palaces, provided spectacular places of worship and created universities so big that they have their own railways.

The region has no shortage of space or jobs. Millions of professionals and labourers are imported from across the world to service the lifestyles, ambitions, and enterprises of these states.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinio ... 58691.html

Turkey is not a failed state so it's unclear why Turkish border control (& naval force) is not patrolling their border & clamping down on criminal activity & illegal border crossing.

Even Aylan's father applied to migrate to Canada before handing over his savings to some criminals, deciding not to buy lifejackets and entrusting his family to a dodgy blow-up boat when leaving the safe haven of Turkey (where he had lived for 3 years).

As reported yesterday on BBC 24, via interpreter, (as he appears to have little English):
"why would we want to go to Europe, Syria is much more beautiful"
(paraphrasing as cannot find the direct quote in print).

It seems a big part of this is now about economic migration triggered by people who were seeking initial refuge from a conflict zone.

[noajthan]

PS: Xenophobia - Fear of foreigners; Zenophobia - presumably, fear of the philosopher Zeno.

wooo, scary Zeno

... when he was tortured to reveal the name of his colleagues in conspiracy Zeno refused to reveal their names, although he said he did have a secret that would be advantageous for Nearchus to hear.

When Nearchus leaned in to listen to the secret, Zeno bit his ear. He "did not let go until he lost his life and the tyrant lost that part of his body".

[Obie]

Surely these people did not consent to the UK distabilising their nations. It is not the responsibility of Lebanon to host refugee about a quarter of their population size, is it?

It is not British together with America and their allies that contributed to the instability in Iraq , which spread to Syria and then Afghanistan .

Surely it is the duty of the UK to bear the burden.

It admire German for been decent and humane in this Refugee Crisis but it actual fact , they did not create it.

[ALKB]

A lot of what is being reported about Germany is misleading.

Yesterday I heard all day on the BBC: "Germany has agreed to take 800 000 refugees". Er, no. 800 000 - or more - is the projected number of arrivals for 2015 and the German government keeps saying "Many will stay but many will have to leave, too." This just doesn't seem to get reported outside of German media.

While Syrians have a good chance to be granted asylum, many others from regions that are not at war but doubtlessly in a desperate economic situation, have been and will be refused. Cases still get processed according to asylum laws and coming by train from Hungary does not guarantee asylum/a long term place to stay/the right to work. I have heard (one of my mother's friends is a retired teacher and volunteers teaching German to refugees) some heartbreaking stories of refused migrants who had left everything behind and risked their lives. The way the media are reporting is creating false expectations. Dangerous expectations.

I have just come back from my summer holidays with my parents in Berlin and local authorities everywhere are in a shambles, completely overstretched and understaffed. Refugees queue for days to get registered. There is no adequate housing for all, tents and gym halls can only work for so long and soon the weather will be getting colder. Refugees are getting distributed all over the country often to rural areas with little in the way of public transport or amenities - no shops, no post office, nothing reachable if you don't have a car. Every day there were reports about violent conflicts within refugee housing - conflicts between different nationalities, religious disputes among different factions and under-trained (!), overwhelmed security personnel feeling threatened/being attacked with knives and in the end the police was shooting.

Yes, Germans generally are compassionate, want to help, donate clothes and food, volunteer and even open their homes in many instances. I am just afraid that for a lot of the people who are trying to get to Germany, it will not be the miracle place the rumour mill makes it out to be.

By the way, there has not been a "Saxon Clan" for many centuries and a lot of right wing xenophobia is happening outside of Saxony.

In any case, the UK is conveniently making use of their island location and that - until a picture of a small drowned boy was published - the only concerns about the crisis seemed to be a) how do we stop a single refugee from reaching us? and b) what does this mean for British holidaymakers? makes me rather sick.

[mkhan2525]

It's down to the numbers. Theresa May is so obsessed and determined to meet the net migration target that she decided to renew it.

The target includes refugees/asylum seekers so Imagine if they let in a huge influx of refugees the target will be missed by a huge margin by the end of this parliament.

How will Theresa May be able to cope with the embarrassment if she's not successful this time.

[secret.simon]

I am not sure about others, but I think that the PM's statement on Syrian refugees strikes the right balance between the refugees needs and our abilities to handle the volume.

http://news.sky.com/story/1548014/pms-s ... ll-it-work

As I understand it, it is 20000 people, from Syrian refugee camps, with priority given to orphans and children separated from families.

As it targets people in the refugee camps, not those in Europe, that weakens to some extent the grasp of people smugglers. And as it targets women and children, it targets those most in need and most likely to integrate into British society, rather than those who would likely be economic migrants.

It seems to me to be a judgment made by the head, with advice from the heart, as it should be. It is not for me to speak for all Britons, but as a naturalised Brit, I feel proud of my country.

It's down to the numbers. Theresa May is so obsessed and determined to meet the net migration target that she decided to renew it.

The target includes refugees/asylum seekers so Imagine if they let in a huge influx of refugees the target will be missed by a huge margin by the end of this parliament.

How will Theresa May be able to cope with the embarrassment if she's not successful this time.

Being proud of my country does not stop me from being cynical of its politicians. In the last Parliament, they could blame the inability to meet numbers on the Lib-Dems. In this Parliament, the Syrians may come in handy as scapegoats, though to be honest, the number of refugees allowed in will only amount to 4000 a year, well within the immigration target of "tens of thousands" a year.

The changes made by the Coalition have already seen the number of citizenships being granted fall by 42% in a year. And I expect it to continue falling as the number of restrictions that they put in force (end of Tier 1, inability to switch most visas without leaving the country, thus reducing the chances of building up a claim to long residency) take effect.

[Obie]

Well i believe the announcement of David Cameron is nothing short of a scandal.

It is disgraceful on an unimaginable proportion.

It would have been better if he had done or said nothing.


If I was a Syrian, I would rather perish in the camp than coming to a country I will not feel welcome it.

He is proposing to take 1 Billion pounds from the International Aid budget to look after 4 thousands Syrian every year. This so called gesture would have been laughable if it was not for the fact that Cameron and co are not proposing to put these Syrians in a 5 star luxury hotels.

Germany will be welcoming its 500,000for the next decade, and these people will be Noble price winner and academics and make Germany prosperous, whiles UK will be masquerading with its shameful and insignificant 4000 for a billion pounds charade.

It has got to the point, where the UK is becoming irrelevant on the world stage, especially where this refugee issue is concerned.

I am keen on taking about advanced and civilize nation like Germany and Sweden, where the value of basic human empathy and decency counts more than the colour of a person skin.

I am bewildered by some of the responses I am getting on this topic, I think it is helping us to understand certain posters a bit better and the basis of some of the posts I have observed over the months.

[mkhan2525]

How many of these refugees will be able to settle in the UK permanently?

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2015/09 ... es-turn-18

[secret.simon]

One would have expected moderators to have a much more...errr, moderate...viewpoint, certainly expressed in a much more circumspect manner.

I am bewildered by some of the responses I am getting on this topic, I think it is helping us to understand certain posters a bit better and the basis of some of the posts I have observed over the months.

You outdo most people on these forums in understatement, Obie. I bow to you and the other moderators when it comes to your knowledge of the law, the rules and regulations, but on a topic such as this, which is purely opinion-based, I am sure that you are not surprised that others may have entirely different points of view.

Being a contributor to a forum on immigration does not require one to have a bias towards a more open-ended view of where immigration should be headed. I would rather interpret the rules as they are, rather than as they should be.

How many of these refugees will be able to settle in the UK permanently?

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2015/09 ... es-turn-18

Thank you, mkhan2525, for a touch of realism and also for highlighting a post from a blog that is not commonly accessed on this forum.

I am going to shock many by asking, why should they? Why is it commonly assumed that refugees must settle in the country that gave them refuge? Refuge is meant to be a temporary situation and when the situation calms down, refugees should be expected to return to their home country. If my house burns down and you kindly give me shelter, I do not get tenancy rights to your house (I have not checked the law, but I hope not).

If refugees develop roots in their country of refuge, such as by having family or by long residence, they should be treated on par with any other migrant who came into the country legally. But being a refugee should not help them short-circuit the system.

Also they should remember (and most of them do) that they owe a debt of gratitude to the country of refuge and attempt to integrate into the culture of that country as much as possible.

[ouflak1]

The U.S. already has 11,000,000 million economic refugees to deal with. That nation needs no more.

EU call for mandatory refugee quotas.

relocating 120,000 people from those countries to other EU nations based on GDP, the average number of past asylum applications and unemployment rate.

So let me get this straight, as this is only the beginning of the flood of migrants seeking a better life into Europe. We are all just supposed to just keep taking all of these migrants until all of our GDP's have been dragged down to the point where couldn't possible sustain anymore people??? Is that rational.

Sorry, but at some point the answer must be a cold hard 'NO'. And I personally think that with the deaths of all those people attempting flee for a better life in Europe, that point has already been passed. Allowing all of these people will only encourage more, which will only translate to more tragedy.

[Obie]

Really. Well if they have no capacity to deal with more, then they should stop creating instabilities in these nations where we have huge refugees originating from.

Then again I don't see these economic refugees in the US.

Mexican are not refugee. Economic migrant are quite distinct from refugees.

[ouflak1]

Really. Well if they have no capacity to deal with more, then they should stop creating instabilities in these nations where we have huge refugees originating from.

In which case we would be crucified and villainized for not doing enough!

Do you know why we've stayed out of the mess that's Syria? Because the American people finally said 'no more'. The people in that region of the world hate us for getting involved. They hate us for not getting involved. They hate us because we're predominately Christian. They hate us because of Israel. And they are only ever going to hate us no matter what we do. Even fighting and dying for them has proven time and time again to not be enough.

Then again I don't see these economic refugees in the US. Mexicans are not refugee. Economic migrant are quite distinct from refugees.

My point being that the bulk of these people are economic migrants who are grasping at an opportunity, however unrealistic, that the countries of Europe will just take them in without question or hesitation. For those who are genuinely war refugees, we should return them to their camps and begin processing their applications right then and their. THOSE are the people who should get consideration for asylum status. Not the hundreds of thousands swarming in just looking for a better life.

[Obie]

Well the fact is we are facing the most severe refugee crisis since the second World war.

Millions of Syrians are displaced and therefore these sarcastic comments of Economic refugees does not assist the debate .

If you don't see the problem and chaos caused by USA, then I will say no more.

I don't wish to have this thread degenerate or go of topic.

Suffice to say, the US will have difficulty to deny that it does not have blood on its hand regarding these conflicts and crisis.

[ouflak1]

If you don't see the problem and chaos caused by USA, then I will say no more.

I don't wish to have this thread degenerate or go of topic.

Suffice to say, the US will have difficulty to deny that it does not have blood on its hand regarding these conflicts and crisis.

The USA will always "have blood on its hands" NO MATTER WHAT WE DO.

• 1. If we answer the calls to get involved, we are interfering in other people's affairs and creating a mess.
  
  2. If we decide to stay out of it, we are inhuman for not using our 'vast resources' to get involved.

There is no way for the U.S. to do anything that will ever be considered 'right' by anybody's standard. If we tried our damnedest to try and get every single one of these refugees into our country to give them asylum, the world would howl with curses upon us for interfering, for trying to traffic people, for attempting to depopulate the Middle East and North Africa, for proselytizing by example, and on and on and on....

We're finally starting to get wise to how this works. Everybody is going to hate us and blame us for everything no matter what we do or don't do. It's a simple rule that never failed to come true. So we might as well try to solve some of our own *severe* problems first. And the EU ought to consider looking at that page from our book and taking a good hard read. It's not like these countries don't have a few problems of their own.

[Wanderer]

The US need to stop sticking it's beak in everywhere - look at the mess in East Ukraine, another US-led attempt at destabilisation....

[Obie]

Outflake you are a nice person and I don't want to offend Americans many of whom are friends of mine, nice and peace loving , who believe in the rights of nation to self determination.

I can understand you are patriotic and want to fight your nations corner, but from an objective assessment, I will say American Government policy and military intervention are the source of so many instability that we see today.

I have not set up this thread for political discussion. It purpose is to look and enable people to reflect on the refugee crisis and the contribution or lack of it of some of the EU 28 members.

I shall open another thread on the none immigration section in due course , to discuss the effect of US on world crisis.

[Casa]

Obie, do you think that's wise? It has the potential to become inflammatory.

[Obie]

Just to get this thread back on topic .

Poland , the nation that protested against David Cameron against discriminating against it citizens , had previously said it will not take Muslims in just like Hungary which had said it has the right to decide whether it wishes to live with Muslims.

Now the Polish government has offered asylum to 2000.

Another disgraceful number.

Australian has offered 12000 places to religious persecuted minorities.

[Obie]

Obie, do you think that's wise? It has the potential to become inflammatory.

I appreciate your concerns Casa. I will not open it.

I am seeking on diffusing the American aspect.

It was never my intention to bring America into this debate.

I wanted it to focus on Europe 28 and the Humanitarian crisis and shame those dearly beloved and Islam phobic leaders.

[ouflak1]

EU unveils bold plan to take 160,000

The migrants' plight has touched hearts around the world, spurred especially by pictures last week of three-year-old Syrian Aylan Kurdi, whose lifeless body washed up on a Turkish beach.

Which ought to be more than enough incentive for all of the 'human rights' activists to finally get it through their heads that this must stop NOW. Send all of these people back immediately. If you continue taking them in carte blanc, then more people will die making the attempt.