student visa and british naturalisation

[f.khan88]

Hi All,

regarding naturalisation application if someone can guide, if someone while on student visa for the couple of years worked behind 20 hours pw, if apply for naturalisation would it be refuse bcz of working extra unpermitted hours? if imposed ban for 10 years then would it count from the time of student visa?
or should the person wait until the date he obtained HSMP/psw to count back 10 years employment with full time work allowed, let say further 2-3 years then apply for British naturalisation ?

any generous advise would be highly appreciated.

thanks
khan

[Wanderer]

10 years from date of Naturalisation application, AIUI.

[Arsal385]

Hi All,

regarding naturalisation application if someone can guide, if someone while on student visa for the couple of years worked behind 20 hours pw, if apply for naturalisation would it be refuse bcz of working extra unpermitted hours? if imposed ban for 10 years then would it count from the time of student visa?
or should the person wait until the date he obtained HSMP/psw to count back 10 years employment with full time work allowed, let say further 2-3 years then apply for British naturalisation ?

any generous advise would be highly appreciated.

thanks
khan

For last 10 years employment history. I believe this is to check whether applicant were entitled to work legally in this country or not and if his/her tax liabilities are in order. I don't think it has to do with checking individual's number of hours worked each week as at that time people were allowed to work full time during their semester off and holidays. So it is difficult for HO to do this meticulous exercise unless HO comes to know this violation from reliable source.
10 years ban starts from the day when HO comes to know this and/or you admit this violation and not from when it happened.

[f.khan88]

Thanks Arsal385

Yeah I know this, but does HMRC hold the record of number of hours worked by someone at any particular time span?

regards

[Arsal385]

Thanks Arsal385

Yeah I know this, but does HMRC hold the record of number of hours worked by someone at any particular time span?

regards

I don't think so. HMRC only keeps a record for the amount you earned each year and tax paid on that amount and they have data available for last 6 years only.

[f.khan88]

ya, not 100% sure about the hours record, but HMRC does have employment history for long time, if you need 10 years record then can provide.

[muzakhaa]

Hi,
I agree with Arsal385. Also I asked for my previous 10 years employment history from HMRC, althought it detailed all of my Tax Paid amout etc including my Employer ( Company Names) but no information of hours worked. Also it took almost more than a month to recieve that report.

I hope this helps.

[cool mind]

Hi,
I agree with Arsal385. Also I asked for my previous 10 years employment history from HMRC, althought it detailed all of my Tax Paid amout etc including my Employer ( Company Names) but no information of hours worked. Also it took almost more than a month to recieve that report.

I hope this helps.

Hello muzaka,
When you requested your 10 years of employment history then whether the HMRC sent you only 6 years of employment history or 10 years? Because usually they have data in near system for the last 6 year only??

[noajthan]

Hi All,

regarding naturalisation application if someone can guide, if someone while on student visa for the couple of years worked behind 20 hours pw, if apply for naturalisation would it be refuse bcz of working extra unpermitted hours? if imposed ban for 10 years then would it count from the time of student visa?
or should the person wait until the date he obtained HSMP/psw to count back 10 years employment with full time work allowed, let say further 2-3 years then apply for British naturalisation

any generous advise would be highly appreciated.

thanks
khan

See http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 94338.html

[Tier 4]

See http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 94338.html

He was refused the residents blue card back in 2010, which is a different issue n on those bases his naturalisation application was refused.

He wasn't spotted just for working extra hours but because of his refusal history.

[noajthan]

See http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 94338.html

He was refused the residents blue card back in 2010, which is a different issue n on those bases his naturalisation application was refused.

He wasn't spotted just for working extra hours but because of his refusal history.

Back to the original question:

if someone while on student visa for the couple of years worked behind 20 hours pw, if apply for naturalisation would it be refuse bcz of working extra unpermitted hours?

Answer: Yes - on the basis of the 'good character' test.
Evidence - quote from the facts stated by OP (in linked case):

Their reason is that I have not been compliant with the UK immigration laws as I was occasionally working over 20 hours a week while being a full time student.

Mitigation: claiming ignorance or claiming HO is unfair in moving goalposts (etc, etc) won't fly.
HMG & HO is rule-bound & procedure-bound and does not 'care'.

Deduction: HO have many datasources at their disposal & clearly use them when crosschecking & verifying applications.

Conclusion: When dealing with HO & immigration matters, breaking the rules or suppressing material facts & simply hoping that it won't be detected in immigration papertrail is clearly a high-risk strategy even if it works sometimes (for some people) in some spheres of life.

[fielddrive]

Here are a few scenarios:

Guy A gets paid £12ph and works 20 hours a week. Weekly wage = £240

Guy B gets paid £6ph and works full time (40 hours). Weekly wage = £240

HMRC show exactly the same PAYE deductions for both of them. How will a tax statement show number of hours worked for both the guys when deductions are the same?

Personally, I haven't worked beyond the 20 hours during term time while I was a student, but did an industrial placement year, where although I was paid a salary I was still paying my university tuition fee and got a 120 credit certificate. Any thoughts?

[fielddrive]

Back to the original question:

if someone while on student visa for the couple of years worked behind 20 hours pw, if apply for naturalisation would it be refuse bcz of working extra unpermitted hours?

Answer: Yes - on the basis of the 'good character' test.
Evidence - quote from the facts stated by OP (in linked case):

Their reason is that I have not been compliant with the UK immigration laws as I was occasionally working over 20 hours a week while being a full time student.

Mitigation: claiming ignorance or claiming HO is unfair in moving goalposts (etc, etc) won't fly.
HMG & HO is rule-bound & procedure-bound and does not 'care'.

Deduction: HO have many datasources at their disposal & clearly use them when crosschecking & verifying applications.

Conclusion: When dealing with HO & immigration matters, breaking the rules or suppressing material facts & simply hoping that it won't be detected in immigration papertrail is clearly a high-risk strategy even if it works sometimes (for some people) in some spheres of life.

As much as I'd like not to, I agree with the points raised in your post.

+1

[muzakhaa]

Hi,
I agree with Arsal385. Also I asked for my previous 10 years employment history from HMRC, althought it detailed all of my Tax Paid amout etc including my Employer ( Company Names) but no information of hours worked. Also it took almost more than a month to recieve that report.

I hope this helps.

Hello muzaka,
When you requested your 10 years of employment history then whether the HMRC sent you only 6 years of employment history or 10 years? Because usually they have data in near system for the last 6 year only??

Hi Cool Mind,
I can confirm that they have send me my employment history from 2005 to date. And I did contact the HMRC Records Retrieval Dept for this. However when you contact HMRC directly they hold your data upto 5 years or 6 years as you mentioned. I was advised by the HMRC that I have to contact their Records Retrieval Dept if I need employment history anything beyond 5 years.

The report they send does mention the following.
- Employer Name
- Start and End Date of Employment
- Tax Paid.

Unfortunately the time I recieved this info I already submitted by Naturalisation application and therefore unable to provide the exact start and end dates of my employment.

[Universal soldier]

Guys it's not to check the number of hours a person has worked rather to check that whether the outstanding taxes has been paid especially for tier 1 general/entrepreneur migrants. Remember in past many fake trading activities were undertaken by migrants to get extensions so this measure is to fish out them. Secondly HMRC don't keep the record as how many hours you have worked and ukba can never know that unless in past the migrant was detected by them or they found something from migrant. Although HMRC works along with ukba but they won't/ are not obliged to present each and every employment detail of migrant rather can precisely tell that whether the taxes of a particular person is in order or not?

[fielddrive]

Hi Cool Mind,
I can confirm that they have send me my employment history from 2005 to date. And I did contact the HMRC Records Retrieval Dept for this. However when you contact HMRC directly they hold your data upto 5 years or 6 years as you mentioned. I was advised by the HMRC that I have to contact their Records Retrieval Dept if I need employment history anything beyond 5 years.

The report they send does mention the following.
- Employer Name
- Start and End Date of Employment
- Tax Paid.

Unfortunately the time I recieved this info I already submitted by Naturalisation application and therefore unable to provide the exact start and end dates of my employment.

I think I'm going to request a copy of my employment record as well. Can you confirm this is the same report you request for compensation? What steps did you do and can you guide us to the form on gov.uk website?

Guys it's not to check the number of hours a person has worked rather to check that whether the outstanding taxes has been paid especially for tier 1 general/entrepreneur migrants. Remember in past many bad quality trading activities were undertaken by migrants to get extensions so this measure is to fish out them. Secondly HMRC don't keep the record as how many hours you have worked and ukba can never know that unless in past the migrant was detected by them or they found something from migrant. Although HMRC works along with ukba but they won't/ are not obliged to present each and every employment detail of migrant rather can precisely tell that whether the taxes of a particular person is in order or not?

I hope that's exactly what it is.

[noajthan]

Back to the original question:

if someone while on student visa for the couple of years worked behind 20 hours pw, if apply for naturalisation would it be refuse bcz of working extra unpermitted hours?

Answer: Yes - on the basis of the 'good character' test.
Evidence - quote from the facts stated by OP (in linked case):

Their reason is that I have not been compliant with the UK immigration laws as I was occasionally working over 20 hours a week while being a full time student.

Mitigation: claiming ignorance or claiming HO is unfair in moving goalposts (etc, etc) won't fly.
HMG & HO is rule-bound & procedure-bound and does not 'care'.

Deduction: HO have many datasources at their disposal & clearly use them when crosschecking & verifying applications.

Conclusion: When dealing with HO & immigration matters, breaking the rules or suppressing material facts & simply hoping that it won't be detected in immigration papertrail is clearly a high-risk strategy even if it works sometimes (for some people) in some spheres of life.

As much as I'd like not to, I agree with the points raised in your post.

+1

It's based on my family's 6+ years of struggle trapped in the immigration system as a law-abiding, tax-paying British citizen struggling to bring my non-EU fiancee (now spouse) to UK.

fyi - You can find an informative mail here from HO caseworker on the purpose of the employment history line of questioning:
british-citizenship/ukba-reply-over-nat ... r#p1204696

[f.khan88]

well this is very uncertain situation!!! I think they may would look the amount some earned while on student visa and try to figure out does that could be earn in 20 hours.............. but there is one other scenario

few years back student were allowed to work full time during their vacations, bank holidays etc and that would made almost in total 3-4 months at least( summar vacation, easter, Christmas etc.) so if someone had work whole month during those allowed period lets say 300 plus hours a month that mean even multiply by min nat. wage it would be around 7000-8000 and rest of the year part time lets say 6000-7000, in total it would be around 15000-16000 which is almost equal to full time salary..... so its very difficult to recognised someone was doing unpermitted hours....... may be in the case where someone was earning more than £20000 a year may can bring some doubts.......... lets hope best for everyone


naojthan
the last link you provided is not working?

thanks

[noajthan]

naojthan
the last link you provided is not working?

thanks

It clicks through ok for me:
british-citizenship/ukba-reply-over-nat ... r#p1204696

[f.khan88]

No Naojan that link is not working, its ok....

Anyone has been successful with their naturalisation with the above mentioned situation after the changes of employment history in AN form?

please share.

Thanks

[maniaji]

maniaji

No Naojan that link is not working, its ok....

Anyone has been successful with their naturalisation with the above mentioned situation after the changes of employment history in AN form?

please share.

Thanks

Any updates on successful/unsuccessful applications on the above scenario?

[f.khan88]

Yes, one of my friend been successful and even got passport, but he applied on old form.