Can a statement from the DWP prove entitlement to PR?

[rooibos]

Hello,

my first post on immigration boards. Please have mercy on me!

To cut the story short, I'm an Italian citizen who has lived on and off for 16 years in UK (the on and off is too long to explain now, but could form a separate thread). I have no intention to apply for a British citizenship any time in the future but I would like to know where I stand.

Beginning of this year I claimed JSA. Upon receiving approval of my claim I was advised by the DWP that my claim would be terminated after 90 days, due the new regulations for EEA jobseekers.

I appealed that decision and eventually a month later the decision makers sent me a letter with this exact wording:

We accept that you have the permanent right to reside in UK. Your claim is not affected.

In a nutshell, can this letter alone prove entitlement to permanent residence in UK? Can I get away with the lengthy and frustrating process of applying for a PR certificate?

Should the answer to the above question be negative, could I attach this document to my application to speed it up or clear any doubts?

Thank you for your time. Looking forward to any input.

[rooibos]

Has anyone got an opinion on this issue?

This could potentially affect 100,000s of EU citizens in the near future.

[noajthan]

...

We accept that you have the permanent right to reside in UK. Your claim is not affected.

In a nutshell, can this letter alone prove entitlement to permanent residence in UK? Can I get away with the lengthy and frustrating process of applying for a PR certificate?

Should the answer to the above question be negative, could I attach this document to my application to speed it up or clear any doubts?

Thank you for your time. Looking forward to any input.

Interesting question but probably doubtful as a precedent & 'way ahead'.

My experience of HMG bureaucracy is that quite often left-hand department does not know or 'care' what right-hand is doing & vice versa.

Whatever criteria DWP applied to reach their decision is unlikely to be compatible with immigration regulations nor likely to be endorsed (let alone adopted) by UKVI/HO.

Think of NHS treatment.
Many nationals have access to & use the UK's wonderful NHS regardless of any CSI requirements in certain cases. The DOH & HO clearly have differing & sometimes mutually exclusive policies & rules at play in the arena of public health provision.

I think the same applies with the interesting anomaly you have come across & HO are unlikely to recognise such a letter about PR.
Just my 2 Euros worth.

[rooibos]

Thanks noajthan,

hopefully somebody will come up with some similar stories in the future.

[secret.simon]

I was advised by the DWP that my claim would be terminated after 90 days, due the new regulations for EEA jobseekers.I appealed that decision

On what grounds did you appeal that decision?

Can I get away with the lengthy and frustrating process of applying for a PR certificate?

Not if you want an official statement that you have PR in the UK. I concur with noajthan that the only authoritative statement that you have PR in the UK is by applying for a PR card.

The DWP does not evaluate immigration rules, the HO does. All the DWP is interested in is that you meet the requirements for the appropriate benefits. But DWP staff may not be well-versed in the intricacies of the EEA Regulations or the Immigration Rules. They may have a broad understanding, but not of the finer details. So, their statement would not carry the weight of a PR Card.

Should the answer to the above question be negative, could I attach this document to my application to speed it up or clear any doubts?

Nothing stops you from attaching the DWP letter to your PR application. Remember that it will only be supporting proof, you will still need to provide the principal proof of having exercised treaty rights for five continuous years by working or seeking work or studying or being self sufficient (the last two with proof of Comprehensive Health Insurance).

Just my 2 Euros worth

In the UK, it's two penn'orth. Is it a whole two euros for Europeans? That is on the expensive side.

[rooibos]

I was advised by the DWP that my claim would be terminated after 90 days, due the new regulations for EEA jobseekers.I appealed that decision

On what grounds did you appeal that decision?

I appealed it on the ground that I had lived in Britain from 1999 to 2013 and then returned in 2014. I didn't mention treaty rights. I merely pointed out that I had resided in the country. I don't have the letter with me but I could attach it if requested.

Nothing stops you from attaching the DWP letter to your PR application. Remember that it will only be supporting proof, you will still need to provide the principal proof of having exercised treaty rights for five continuous years by working or seeking work or studying or being self sufficient (the last two with proof of Comprehensive Health Insurance).

In 16 years in this country I was never asked Comprehensive Health Insurance. I though I was covered by the NHS. I did have periods of claiming JSA. Would that count towards or against being a jobseeker?

[rooibos]

To complement my previous post, in my letter to the DWP I cited this document:
http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn05972.pdf

where at page 4 it mentions:

EEA nationals who have ‘resided legally’ in the UK for a continuous period of five years (or less in certain circumstances) acquire a permanent right of residence and have access to benefits and tax credits on the same terms as UK nationals.

I understand now from what secret.simon says that the requirement for benefit purposes might not be the same as the one set by the HO in terms of permanent residence.

The DWP has also recently introduced the concept of "alternative right to reside" which doesn't appear in the HO terminology, or so it appears.

I hope I've given more details to my query. Any input is appreciated.

[secret.simon]

To complement my previous post, in my letter to the DWP I cited this document:http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn05972.pdf where at page 4 it mentions:EEA nationals who have ‘resided legally’ in the UK for a continuous period of five years (or less in certain circumstances) acquire a permanent right of residence and have access to benefits and tax credits on the same terms as UK nationals.

That is a generalisation. It states the broad principle of the law without going into detail.

Here is the applicable law (EEA Regulations 2006). You may wish to refer particularly to Sections 3, 4 & 15.

I appealed it on the ground that I had lived in Britain from 1999 to 2013 and then returned in 2014.

But

I'm an Italian citizen who has lived on and off for 16 years in UK (the on and off is too long to explain now, but could form a separate thread).

Did you mention the time you spent outside the UK in your appeal? Because if you did not and you got benefits based on providing incomplete information, you may have committed a crime.

To summarise, for PR, you will need five continuous(see Section 3 of the EEA Regulations above for the definition of continuous) years of exercising treaty rights (see Section 4 for the definition of exercising treaty rights).

If you give us details of the time that you were out of the UK, that would help us advise you better.

CSI is required mainly for the purpose of exercising treaty rights. You only need it if you were either a student or self-sufficient. You do not require it if you were working or seeking work.

[rooibos]

Did you mention the time you spent outside the UK in your appeal? Because if you did not and you got benefits based on providing incomplete information, you may have committed a crime.

and:

If you give us details of the time that you were out of the UK, that would help us advise you better.

Yes, I did mention all periods I was abroad and specifically this is what I wrote:

I arrived in the UK in November 1999. Since then I was absent from the UK four times: the first time for three months in 2002; the second time in 2003 for three months; the third time in 2011 for four months; the fourth and last time from December 2013 to October 2014.

I believe I have acquired the right to reside in the United Kingdom permanently during the period 1999-2013. DMG 073360 (Temporary absences that do not break continuity) states:

“absences not exceeding six months in a year” […] “will not break the continuity of residence”.

My third absence from the UK (11 months) has no effect on my right to permanent residence and as a consequence to my eligibility to employment and other benefits. DMG 073368 (Effect of absence after right to permanent residence acquired) states:

“Once acquired on or after 30.4.06, the right of permanent residence is only lost by
absence from the host Member State for a period exceeding two consecutive years.”

To summarise, for PR, you will need five continuous(see Section 3 of the EEA Regulations above for the definition of continuous) years of exercising treaty rights (see Section 4 for the definition of exercising treaty rights).



CSI is required mainly for the purpose of exercising treaty rights. You only need it if you were either a student or self-sufficient. You do not require it if you were working or seeking work.

And this is where I am not sure. Can you count periods on JSA as "seeking work" or would that count as not being self sufficient?

In my letter I also cited DMG 073351:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... ch0703.pdf

Under the Imm (EEA) regs the following persons acquire the right to reside in the UK permanently
1. an EEA national who has resided in the UK in accordance with the Imm
(EEA) Regs for a continuous
period of five years (1)

where (1) is Imm (EEA) Regs, reg 15(1)(a); 2 reg 15(1)(b).

Permanent right of residence
15.
—(1)
The following persons shall acquire the right to reside in the United
Kingdom permanently–
(a) an EEA national who has resided in the United Kingdom in accordance with
these Regulations for a continuous period of five years;
(b) a family member of an EEA national who is not himself an EEA national but
who has resided in the United Kingdom with the EEA national in accordance
with these Regulations for a continuous period of five years;

I believe that I have satisfied those criteria, although I have only retained documents for the period after 2006. Before that period I lost some of the paperwork and this could be a problem.