How likely/unlikely is the supreme Court in relation to £186

[pce950]

Will the supreme Court leave the £18600 threshold as being fair when the appeal is heard in February 2016. Is there any chance they will see that £18600 is too high or will it be a final nail in the coffin and the £18600 will remain?

[Wanderer]

Have you considered they might see it as too low and raise it?!!

[Obie]

Have you considered they might see it as too low and raise it?!!

Well they cannot do that. They are not the legislature or the executive who can implement policies.

[secret.simon]

Well they cannot do that. They are not the legislature or the executive who can implement policies.

True. But I believe that the government is also waiting for the judgment to see what benchmarks the Supreme Court sets for acceptable in this field and then it will raise the earnings threshold to the maximum the Supreme Court would allow. I would expect it to be timed to the traditional 6th April changes to the Immigration Rules, if the judgment is delivered in February 2016.

Sarah Teather, a LibDem minister in the last government, had mentioned in 2013 that the Tories wanted to increase the threshold to £40000. I doubt that they would increase it that far, but I would expect an increase to £20000 with an automatic annual increase linked to inflation.

http://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/ ... mmigration

[Universal soldier]

[quote="Wanderer"]Have you considered they might see it as too low and raise it?!![/quote]

Wanderer never write in favor of migrants and always have negative mentality

And the secret.Simon perhaps his new disciples who has same inflammable identical ideas.

[Casa]

Have you considered they might see it as too low and raise it?!!

Wanderer never write in favor of migrants and always have negative mentality

And the secret.Simon perhaps his new disciples who has same inflammable identical ideas.

In his 6 years on the forum and 8492 posts, Wanderer will have seen toughening of the Rules that many would believed would be unthinkable. He is generally realistic and doesn't 'sugar coat' anything...although not always what some members want to read.

secret.simon is simply relaying statements made by (in this case) a Liberal MP and the National press.

[Wanderer]

Have you considered they might see it as too low and raise it?!!

Wanderer never write in favor of migrants and always have negative mentality

And the secret.Simon perhaps his new disciples who has same inflammable identical ideas.

In his 6 years on the forum and 8492 posts, Wanderer will have seen toughening of the Rules that many would believed would be unthinkable. He is generally realistic and doesn't 'sugar coat' anything...although not always what some members want to read.

secret.simon is simply relaying statements made by (in this case) a Liberal MP and the National press.

Exactly, if I was anti-migrant I wouldn't be here! I'd have cleared off long ago as soon as my issues had been resolved, as a lot do.

I have my own opinions not always in accord with others but that's anyone's prerogative, I like a bit of banter and debate and I've had my opinions changed by engaging in that.

Having imported a foreign partner myself I think £18,600 is too low to do it, but that's just my opinion same as any other who would say it's too high.

[Universal soldier]

Do you know that the purpose of £18600 threshold. It may have several meaning or purposes but mainly to avoid the wastage of tax payer money. But it already involve inside an excessive sum of £3000 and for which a lot news if being search came. If that threshold which already in excess of £3000 if increases then further legal issues will trigger. According to reach already 47% of British public cannot even meet £18600. Next year at the moment only a bombastic change will occur which demands the migrants to earn at least £40000 to get ILR at the end of their 5th qualifying year.

[Universal soldier]

Read 12. Income threshold of following debate:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 3-0001.htm

[Petaltop]

Sarah Teather, a LibDem minister in the last government, had mentioned in 2013 that the Tories wanted to increase the threshold to £40000. I doubt that they would increase it that far, but I would expect an increase to £20000 with an automatic annual increase linked to inflation.

They wanted to set the sponsorship rate at 26k ish, which is the poverty level cap for a couple with 1 child for the welfare payment Tax Credits. Doing this to stop a foreign national being too much of a burden to the UK taxpayers as their spouse must now support them. Instead they set it a 18.6, just above the poverty level cap for a couple only, with the welfare payment Tax Credits.

The law passed last week which makes the Tax Credits caps drop for the next tax year, from April 2016. The poverty level cap for a couple with 1 child for the welfare payment Tax Credits will drop to about 19/20k then. Once reduced, Tax Credits are one of the benefits being frozen for 4 years (no increases in that benefit)

With an automatic inflation increase, they now have it set how they wanted it for somone to sponsor a foreign spouse and them not to be too much of a burden. Put UK benefits for children below that of France, Germany and Sweden. Dashed the hopes of those claimants who didn't intend to work more to keep their children and who hoped to get transitional protection on their benefits when Tax Credits is replaced by Universal Credit.

Then more welfare reductions with 2 child limit for claimants from 2017, with the exclusion of children already being paid for by Tax Credits/Universal Credit by that date.

Then there is the work requirements for their parents when put on Universal Credit and welfare reductions for those who who claim their are self employed but their business is not paying them a living wage.

Sponsors in the UK are going to have to work to keep their foreign spouse soon, and not just to get a visa for them!

[mkhan2525]

I don't think a fair balance has be struck between Article 8 and the income threshold. This is what the Supreme court will see to do and may find it violates our human rights.

I guess the Bibi judgement may give an indication of how the Supreme court will proceed in this case.

[Wanderer]

Any form of international dating/wooing/marriage is going to be expensive, I'm thinking more British men with their East European/Thai/Fillipina brides etc, not so much arranged marriages in sub-contintent, although I seen a fair few of those fail when the freedoms seen here come into play..

Anyway, we see many a desperate British man, or lonely old woman, hook up with Russian or Thai women, or Turkish or Moroccan man, and get taken for ride because they did not have the wherewithal to get to know the person with frequent trips and lots of time off work. How many of these relationships do we see conveniently fail at ILR time?

A lot. I've seen plenty.

All my opinion! but I really can't see how anyone earning even £26k a year can engage in international dating with any degree of due diligence.

Of course there are always exceptions, and I've probably unfair stereotyped a few people up-post, but I've had nose in the door of international relationships since 2003, and I've seen a lot of broken hearts.

[Universal soldier]

@wanderer
You seems like an expert who surf several chatting websites or run your own chatting website. By ignoring all of what you said do you know how many genuine couples having kids are suffering because that inhuman requirement causing distances between beloved ones. Unmarried partnership must totally be abolished which causing such scam which you said but a genuine couple need to marry either abroad or if anyone of them UK visa national then have to have visa to come to marry. As I said earlier that £18600 threshold already having £3000 in excess inside and any new increase would open door of several legal çhallenges. Usually those ones who are free from such hassles can never understand it.

[Wanderer]

@wanderer
You seems like an expert who surf several chatting websites or run your own chatting website. By ignoring all of what you said do you know how many genuine couples having kids are suffering because that inhuman requirement causing distances between beloved ones. Unmarried partnership must totally be abolished which causing such scam which you said but a genuine couple need to marry either abroad or if anyone of them UK visa national then have to have visa to come to marry. As I said earlier that £18600 threshold already having £3000 in excess inside and any new increase would open door of several legal çhallenges. Usually those ones who are free from such hassles can never understand it.

I was brought up to bear children when you could afford them and had a stable environment to bring them up in. Perhaps I'm old fashioned. I despair of the the number of people I see having kids when in a total mess both financially and on here, without any legal status.

I don't have any chat sites and only have Facebook for anything remotely similar, I'm too busy with my businesses, proactively earning money instead of bleating about the lack of it. I was brought up in a house with five of us in one room, so I've not had a privileged upbringing. I'm a committed Socialist but to me that doesn't mean sitting on your arse waiting for the benefits to arrive....

Back in the day I was one of the few who went to Soviet Russia and much later I got involved with a friends website that promoted the Russian Bride industry and gave travel/visa advice. Not now though, it all got rather tacky.

Anyway, i've been around long enough to remember when UK visas were all free........

[noajthan]

...

I was brought up to bear children when you could afford them and had a stable environment to bring them up in. Perhaps I'm old fashioned. I despair of the the number of people I see having kids when in a total mess both financially and on here, without any legal status.

I don't have any chat sites and only have Facebook for anything remotely similar, I'm too busy with my businesses, proactively earning money instead of bleating about the lack of it. I was brought up in a house with five of us in one room, so I've not had a privileged upbringing. I'm a committed Socialist but to me that doesn't mean sitting on your arse waiting for the benefits to arrive....

...

Anyway, i've been around long enough to remember when UK visas were all free........

+1

Mud can make you prisoner, and the plains can bake you dry
Snow can burn your eyes, but only people make you cry
Home is made for coming from, for dreams of going to

[secret.simon]

...
I was brought up to bear children when you could afford them and had a stable environment to bring them up in. Perhaps I'm old fashioned. I despair of the the number of people I see having kids when in a total mess both financially and on here, without any legal status.
...

+1

Mud can make you prisoner, and the plains can bake you dry
Snow can burn your eyes, but only people make you cry
Home is made for coming from, for dreams of going to

+1

@Noajthan, that was a pretty philosophical note to end on.

secret.Simon perhaps his new disciples who has same inflammable identical ideas

Not quite correct.

Firstly, I have been through my own experiences and am unlikely to be somebody's disciple.

Secondly, on these forums, I try to assist people by advising them of possibilities within the law, both UK and EU.

But a thread like this is not asking for advice, but for a prediction. I have referenced a specific quote and based on that and on the strong anti-immigration stance of the government, extrapolated some possibilities. While that may not be what some people would consider ideal, based on my references (mentioned above), they are more likely to occur. I am not being idealistic, I am being realistic as to the direction of travel of immigration policy in the UK.

As another example, as Wanderer points out, UK visas used to be free at a recent point in the past. Now, not only are fees going up at higher than the rate of inflation, but also the government is creating new charges on top of the fees (IHS and now possibly a new Immigration Skills Charge mentioned in the Immigration Bill 2015 in the Commons). It is not ideal, but I know that that is the direction of travel when it comes to fees and am preparing for it when I have to bring my family to the UK.

That is not being negative, that is being factual and being grounded in the real world.

[secret.simon]

Initial speed reading of the Immigration Bill referenced above seems to suggest that financially, it is going to be much harsher than (even I) expected.

Not only does it explicitly state that there will be an Immigration Skills Charge, but also gives the government powers to have additional charges for passports, marriages and registration of births and deaths. While it is not stated in the law that that is for the purposes of charging a differential rate for migrants, that is the only conclusion that I can reach based on the fact that it is in an Immigration Bill.

I don't think a fair balance has be struck between Article 8 and the income threshold.

I believe the government's view is that in exercise of your right to a family life, you can stay with your non-EEA spouse in his/her non-EEA country.

Do you know that the purpose of £18600 threshold.

No, but I can hazard a guess.

Partially it is financial/fiscal. The Home Office is one of the few government departments (apart from the Treasury, of course) which earns money. That gives it some leeway from the direct impact of the Treasury's control in financial terms.

But mainly, I believe that it is psychological. The government is aiming to reduce the pull factor for migrants (both legal and illegal). If migrants know that it will be really hard (and very expensive) to get their families to join them here, they are likely to try other countries.

Disputations are welcome, but please base them on facts, not emotions.