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That is most unfortunate & an error or misunderstanding of your case on NCS's part.gumfree7 wrote:Hi all,
So today I received a letter from the Home Office saying my application was refused because I haven't been a Permanent Resident for 12 months.
I arrived in the UK in 2007 and was dependent on my mother (I am and my mother is an EU Citizen) for all of this time - she was exercising her treaty rights and because I was still in school so was I, and under Directive 2004/38/EC I became free of immigration restrictions after 5 years and became a permanent resident automatically in 2013 pursuant to the exercise of those treaty rights.
I applied for a Permanent Residence card in 2015 as I thought this would ease the process of a Citizenship application, however, the Permanent Resident cards only show the issue date and do not show for how long you have been in the UK and for how long you have actually been a permanent resident.
When I was in the NCS the lady filled in the "Date Permanent Residence Issued" as it was on my Permanent Residence card. I believe the Home Office to have only taken a look at my card and did not look at the documents I supplied proving I have been in the UK continuously for 8 consecutive years. I believe this to be an absurd allegation but this is Home Office we are talking about.
They stated in the refusal letter that I can complete the Form NR and send it to them with a £80 re-consideration fee. However, they do not state where, how long will it take and whether or not they need original documents.
What should I do?
Am I doomed? Or should I complete and send the Form NR, how long do you usually have to wait? Because frankly, I have given up.
Hi thank you so much for replying and giving a very insightful answer. I will write a letter print it off and submit it for reconsideration with the form NR. I just can't believe they are that lazy as not to check all of the documentation, part of me believes they did it to get more money.noajthan wrote:That is most unfortunate & an error or misunderstanding of your case on NCS's part.gumfree7 wrote:Hi all,
So today I received a letter from the Home Office saying my application was refused because I haven't been a Permanent Resident for 12 months.
I arrived in the UK in 2007 and was dependent on my mother (I am and my mother is an EU Citizen) for all of this time - she was exercising her treaty rights and because I was still in school so was I, and under Directive 2004/38/EC I became free of immigration restrictions after 5 years and became a permanent resident automatically in 2013 pursuant to the exercise of those treaty rights.
I applied for a Permanent Residence card in 2015 as I thought this would ease the process of a Citizenship application, however, the Permanent Resident cards only show the issue date and do not show for how long you have been in the UK and for how long you have actually been a permanent resident.
When I was in the NCS the lady filled in the "Date Permanent Residence Issued" as it was on my Permanent Residence card. I believe the Home Office to have only taken a look at my card and did not look at the documents I supplied proving I have been in the UK continuously for 8 consecutive years. I believe this to be an absurd allegation but this is Home Office we are talking about.
They stated in the refusal letter that I can complete the Form NR and send it to them with a £80 re-consideration fee. However, they do not state where, how long will it take and whether or not they need original documents.
What should I do?
Am I doomed? Or should I complete and send the Form NR, how long do you usually have to wait? Because frankly, I have given up.
As you surmise, HO have evidently applied the free from immigration time restrictions rule which requires 12 months of settled status/PR (if not married to a BC) against the date of issue of PR card.
You should appeal and explain clearly the timeline by which you believe you acquired PR (as a dependent family member) by the earlier date.
Unfortunately you will have to pay the £80 fee to do this;
you will have to be able to prove your sponsor's treaty rights (again)
- as you must have done when you applied for your 'confirmation of PR' card.
The forum FAQS also discuss this type of scenario, see Q5:
british-citizenship/citizenship-faqs-co ... 95747.html
Send the reconsideration form & all evidence, cover letter & etc to here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ed-form-nr
I can't comment on how long it may take.
Note: Keep scans & copies of all your docs (& the form) in usual way.
Don't give up - good luck.
The NCS official condemned your application to fail by filling in that PR date & not realising she had made youu look as if you had failed the 12-month rule.gumfree7 wrote:Hi thank you so much for replying and giving a very insightful answer. I will write a letter print it off and submit it for reconsideration with the form NR. I just can't believe they are that lazy as not to check all of the documentation, part of me believes they did it to get more money.
I called Home Office on Friday, they told me that department who look at the Citizenship Applications have been doing a lot of this lately, apparently a lot of people have been refused citizenship due to Permanent Residence cards not having 12-months after issue date, so they don't even bother to look over all of the documents and send out a standard refusal letter. I was advised to submit form NR asap and explain why I think they made a mistake and also include any documents I feel would support my case. I can't actually believe what I heard. How can you not look at documents provided to you? Especially when you are paying a fair amount of money, this is quite negligent on their part. I hope all is well and someone competent looks over the documentation provided with form NR because this is quite absurd, its like they don't want people to become citizens.noajthan wrote:The NCS official condemned your application to fail by filling in that PR date & not realising she had made youu look as if you had failed the 12-month rule.gumfree7 wrote:Hi thank you so much for replying and giving a very insightful answer. I will write a letter print it off and submit it for reconsideration with the form NR. I just can't believe they are that lazy as not to check all of the documentation, part of me believes they did it to get more money.
You may have some sort of negligence case against NCS but not sure what redress you have there;
you would likely only get your NCS fee returned (if anything).
I don't believe HO are evil or malicious; they are just a bureaucratic & rule-bound organisation (after all it's a government department).
Caseworkers (probably overworked & underpaid) 'simply' apply the law & regulations via guidance notes, rulebooks & other criteria - all done 'by the letter'.
If you explain in full what has happened & why (& supply adequate proof of your sponsor acquiring PR at the earlier date), hopefully all will end well.
You can review recent statements and pronouncements from HMG to form your own opinion on the 'official' attitude to aspiring citizens.gumfree7 wrote:I can't actually believe what I heard. How can you not look at documents provided to you? Especially when you are paying a fair amount of money, this is quite negligent on their part. I hope all is well and someone competent looks over the documentation provided with form NR because this is quite absurd, its like they don't want people to become citizens.
Thanks for the help! Hope is all well.
I do hope everything turns out okay. I sent my sponsors p60s, council tax letters, passport, and child tax credit letters, including my passport, letters from my school for the last 8 years and a p60 I had from my new job also my IELTS and Life in the UK but this time didn't include my and my sponsors PR cards. I hope that will be enough to prove my right to permanent residence and citizenship. It is quite weird. Especially since I haven't left the country once and have been in full time education for the amount required for me to gain PR status automatically, and have never had any criminal convictions.noajthan wrote:You can review recent statements and pronouncements from HMG to form your own opinion on the 'official' attitude to aspiring citizens.gumfree7 wrote:I can't actually believe what I heard. How can you not look at documents provided to you? Especially when you are paying a fair amount of money, this is quite negligent on their part. I hope all is well and someone competent looks over the documentation provided with form NR because this is quite absurd, its like they don't want people to become citizens.
Thanks for the help! Hope is all well.
As to the paperwork, yes it's negligent - and same on part of NCS who appear to have set you on this track instead of guarding you against it.
Suggest submit 'chapter & verse' of all relevant supporting docs to show the real timeline of acquisition of PR by your sponsor.
Cover letter will help too.
Thanks, I find it quite strange that I was refused citizenship - when looking back at older threads people usually get approved even if their PR card is less than 12-months.hope-2 wrote:I send my application in April this year and just got my approval last month. I'm an EU national (not married to a BC) and had my PR only for 4 months when I applied and still got my approval.
You should definitely appeal as soon as possible and not give up!
Hmm... I guess you got lucky then.hope-2 wrote:No, I did not fill in the date acquired (Dec 2014) which is when I received my PR, anywhere on the application form. I just put a tick next to '• A document certifying permanent residence or a permanent residence card issued by UKVI' in the supporting documents section at the end of the application indicating that I included my PR.
I think u made a mistake by applying for PR , why not just wait 2 months and apply again . the rules is clear you should have been free from immigration time restrictions during the last 12 months of the residential qualifying period. unless u married to a british citizen , good luckgumfree7 wrote:Hmm... I guess you got lucky then.hope-2 wrote:No, I did not fill in the date acquired (Dec 2014) which is when I received my PR, anywhere on the application form. I just put a tick next to '• A document certifying permanent residence or a permanent residence card issued by UKVI' in the supporting documents section at the end of the application indicating that I included my PR.
Did you have PR prior to your PR Confirmation card or is your PR card the actual date you got your PR status?
It seems weird, they'd give someone Citizenship who don't fall in the 12 month criteria.
It's seems that I did make the mistake of applying for a PR Card - I don't want to go through the grueling processes again of paying £1009 again, when I know I was eligible to apply for Citizenship since 2013 after 12 month period as a permanent resident which I gained automatically.foufou wrote:I think u made a mistake by applying for PR , why not just wait 2 months and apply again . the rules is clear you should have been free from immigration time restrictions during the last 12 months of the residential qualifying period. unless u married to a british citizen , good luckgumfree7 wrote:Hmm... I guess you got lucky then.hope-2 wrote:No, I did not fill in the date acquired (Dec 2014) which is when I received my PR, anywhere on the application form. I just put a tick next to '• A document certifying permanent residence or a permanent residence card issued by UKVI' in the supporting documents section at the end of the application indicating that I included my PR.
Did you have PR prior to your PR Confirmation card or is your PR card the actual date you got your PR status?
It seems weird, they'd give someone Citizenship who don't fall in the 12 month criteria.
This appears to be the root of the problem:gumfree7 wrote:It's seems that I did make the mistake of applying for a PR Card - I don't want to go through the grueling processes again of paying £1009 again, when I know I was eligible to apply for Citizenship since 2013 after 12 month period as a permanent resident which I gained automatically.foufou wrote:I think u made a mistake by applying for PR , why not just wait 2 months and apply again . the rules is clear you should have been free from immigration time restrictions during the last 12 months of the residential qualifying period. unless u married to a british citizen , good luck
The NCS apparently misunderstood the scope of your application & followed an inappropriate procedure.... in the NCS the lady filled in the "Date Permanent Residence Issued" as it was on my Permanent Residence card. I believe the Home Office to have only taken a look at my card and did not look at the documents I supplied
I had PR status before I got the card. I have lived here for 10 years now and I was always exercising my treaty rights (studying/working).gumfree7 wrote:
Hmm... I guess you got lucky then.
Did you have PR prior to your PR Confirmation card or is your PR card the actual date you got your PR status?
It seems weird, they'd give someone Citizenship who don't fall in the 12 month criteria.
I did tell the lady at NCS that I was hesitant as to whether to put my automatically acquired PR date or the one on the card, she told me "don't worry, I know what I'm doing" and put the date on my PR card, I mean after all it's her job right, so why wouldn't I trust them, the only reason you go is so that they check over your application so everything is filled in correctly - big mistake. I'm thinking of going to a Solicitor and issuing a lawsuit. This isn't acceptable. She even made a tick "have you been out of the country for more than 475 days out of the UK" and I was like wtf - you made a mistake so she corrected it and said sorry.Torex wrote:You made a mistake by putting in the "Date Permanent Residence Issued". (NCS should not have allowed this)
It is your job to prove your eligibility for British Citizenship.
HO decision is correct, they simply checked that date and the result was obvious - 12 months have not passed yet.
You should not have used your PR Card at all, just the documents to prove your last 6 years history. In this case they would have no choice but approve it.
I'm afraid reconsideration will not help as you had based your application on PR card.
This is your grounds for reconsideration - that NCS followed an inappropriate procedure (& misled you as to the significance of it).gumfree7 wrote:I did tell the lady at NCS that I was hesitant as to whether to put my automatically acquired PR date or the one on the card, she told me "don't worry, I know what I'm doing" and put the date on my PR card, I mean after all it's her job right, so why wouldn't I trust them, the only reason you go is so that they check over your application so everything is filled in correctly - big mistake. I'm thinking of going to a Solicitor and issuing a lawsuit. This isn't acceptable. She even made a tick "have you been out of the country for more than 475 days out of the UK" and I was like wtf - you made a mistake so she corrected it and said sorry.
She told me the things you put in the application like the PR status don't really matter anyway - and that the HO would just ignore it.
Yes, that's what I put in the Form NR stating all of the dates and when I became a permanent resident automatically and when I was eligible to apply for Citizenship. And provided both mine and my sponsors paperwork. Hopefully it will be enough, they still haven't taken money off of my card, I don't seem to find any NR Form Timelines - how long does the process usually take, do you know?noajthan wrote:This is your grounds for reconsideration - that NCS followed an inappropriate procedure (& misled you as to the significance of it).gumfree7 wrote:I did tell the lady at NCS that I was hesitant as to whether to put my automatically acquired PR date or the one on the card, she told me "don't worry, I know what I'm doing" and put the date on my PR card, I mean after all it's her job right, so why wouldn't I trust them, the only reason you go is so that they check over your application so everything is filled in correctly - big mistake. I'm thinking of going to a Solicitor and issuing a lawsuit. This isn't acceptable. She even made a tick "have you been out of the country for more than 475 days out of the UK" and I was like wtf - you made a mistake so she corrected it and said sorry.
She told me the things you put in the application like the PR status don't really matter anyway - and that the HO would just ignore it.
I contacted the NCS I used and said I will be going to a Solicitor and going to Court if needed be if they at least don't assist me as it was their mistake. They have screwed up my application, when I should be expecting the big day of a Citizenship ceremony, instead I'm left bitter and not even angry anymore, just sad that they claim to be able to check over your application and say whether it will be granted approval or refusal. In this case, they said it would definitely get approved, but the latter happened.Torex wrote:When I went for my NCS appointment, for every single question I had they called HO to confirm.
The lady at NCS said she doesn't deal with EEA applications too often.
I don't think you have high chances of winning the case against NCS. They don't take responsibility for any application they provide help.
I would try reconsideration. It is only £80 anyway.
However, HO may not accept the fact that NCS made a mistake as enough to approve your application, as it is your responsibility to fill the application in a right way.