permanent residence card yes or no? please help

[soslana]

Hi all

I have recently applied for PR and unsure of outcome. I am a non eeu national living in the UK for 14 years criminal free, my ,,wife,, (we are not merried yet) who is EEU citizen live here just over 10 years. She has been employed since beginning 2005-2013. From 2013 April till now full time mom. Have two children. She also become a British citizen in July 2013 and still holds her EEU country citizenship. My son who was born in 2011 got British passport in 2011. No passport taken yet for my daughter who was born January this year. I hold residence card as a family member which expires end of September in few days. We live together just over 9 years. I have been in employment continues past 5 years and got every single wage slip. She also has all from previous job. Problem is we did not know thing about sickness insurance otherwise would have bought it. Since 2013 we are claiming child tax credits working tax credits on joint names. She has over 2000 pounds on her account I have just over 1000. We are fully self sufficient apart from sickness cover. We pay mortgage 275 a month. She also was studying since 2012(sep) -2014(July) we sent one full box of papers to home office, but I fear they can refuse. What are my chances and is there anything I can do to succeed? One thing to mention she did not stop working because she wished to but company stopped giving her part time which she was doing from 2012-2013 and i am doing 4-4 off so not much options was for her as i was gone all day from 10am to 10pm on my working days. Sorry about for this long write up and maybe I am all over the place but wanted to give you as much information as possible.
My lawyer said if she was claiming child tax credits and working tax credits then she was exercising treaty rights? I am unsure on this one.
Could you please tell me what are my chances and if refusal will happen what options I will have? Is there anything I can do to help application succeed?

I look forward to hear from you
Many thanks

[noajthan]

Hi all

I have recently applied for PR and unsure of outcome. I am a non eeu national living in the UK for 14 years criminal free, my ,,wife,, (we are not merried yet) who is EEU citizen live here just over 10 years. She has been employed since beginning 2005-2013. From 2013 April till now full time mom. Have two children. She also become a British citizen in July 2013 and still holds her EEU country citizenship. My son who was born in 2011 got British passport in 2011. No passport taken yet for my daughter who was born January this year. I hold residence card as a family member which expires end of September in few days. We live together just over 9 years. I have been in employment continues past 5 years and got every single wage slip. She also has all from previous job. Problem is we did not know thing about sickness insurance otherwise would have bought it. Since 2013 we are claiming child tax credits working tax credits on joint names. She has over 2000 pounds on her account I have just over 1000. We are fully self sufficient apart from sickness cover. We pay mortgage 275 a month. She also was studying since 2012(sep) -2014(July) we sent one full box of papers to home office, but I fear they can refuse. What are my chances and is there anything I can do to succeed? One thing to mention she did not stop working because she wished to but company stopped giving her part time which she was doing from 2012-2013 and i am doing 4-4 off so not much options was for her as i was gone all day from 10am to 10pm on my working days. Sorry about for this long write up and maybe I am all over the place but wanted to give you as much information as possible.
My lawyer said if she was claiming child tax credits and working tax credits then she was exercising treaty rights? I am unsure on this one.
Could you please tell me what are my chances and if refusal will happen what options I will have? Is there anything I can do to help application succeed?

I look forward to hear from you
Many thanks

HO won't consider wife to be EEA anymore as she has now naturalised.
Hopefully wife acquired PR by 2013, ie from 2008 or earler.

As unmarried you will have to have proved you have a durable relationship.

On that basis, with adequate evidence you could have acquired PR too, by 2013.

If all requirements can be met you can think about naturalising with no futher delay as you have had settled status for over 12 months.

Don't understand what that lawyer meant about CB/CTC its nothing to do with treaty rights.
Benefits after 2013 don't matter as wife was BC; you need to prove PR before then.

Your activity doesn't matter in PR terms as it's wife's activity exercising treaty rights continuously as qualified person that counts.

btw what nationality is your wife? If A8 national was she registered in WRS on/before 2011?

Good luck.

[soslana]

Hi, thank you very much for the replay. She is from Latvia and yes mortgage bills which we have just over 7 years got both names: gas, electric, counsil, water et etc which we sent to HO but only for the last 5 years rest is at home. Our both children has my surname if thats helps. My wife did not took PR but i think its outomated or no? She applied BC straight after 8 year full emploiment. My son got BC 2 years befor my wife become as she could proof to HO that she could have been BC if she wanted to and on that bases my son got the British passport without a problem.
I now can see light in the long dark tunnel.
Thank you so much for reading all that and giving replay.
My lawyer was saying we should not mention to HO that she is also BC as I will get refusal on that bases. Of course we did mentioned and sent both her passport including my sons, they have all the records and to lie its a big NOOO

Could you please tell me whats WRS is?

Thank you again

[soslana]

Will bills on both names kids on my names and over 5000 pictures with family and friends on holiday and everywere proof durable relationship?

[noajthan]

Hi, thank you very much for the replay. She is from Latvia and yes mortgage bills which we have just over 7 years got both names: gas, electric, counsil, water et etc which we sent to HO but only for the last 5 years rest is at home. Our both children has my surname if thats helps. My wife did not took PR but i think its outomated or no? She applied BC straight after 8 year full emploiment. My son got BC 2 years befor my wife become as she could proof to HO that she could have been BC if she wanted to and on that bases my son got the British passport without a problem.
I now can see light in the long dark tunnel.
Thank you so much for reading all that and giving replay.
My lawyer was saying we should not mention to HO that she is also BC as I will get refusal on that bases. Of course we did mentioned and sent both her passport including my sons, they have all the records and to lie its a big NOOO

Could you please tell me whats WRS is?

Thank you again

WRS is the worker registration scheme & it will apply to your wife as Latvia is an 'A8' country.

It means for work to be considered to be exercising treaty rights your wife had to be registered under WRS.
This is for work in UK from 2004 and up to 2011 (WRS was abolished in 2011).

Yes, PR is acquired automatically by exercising treaty rights as a qualified person.
As you mentioned, your wife must have acquired PR because she needed that settled status for 12 months before she could naturalise.
As she has acquired PR then so must you have done, as her dependent.
It's just a case of proving it.
You should collect together the evidence you used previously to start with.

This guidance shows what is required to demonstrate a durable unmarried relationship:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... s_v2_0.pdf
- see page 13
It includes evidence such as housing documents, joint bills, (joint) bank account/s, details of children, some photos (not 5000!), etc

You could have thought about applying to naturalise directly as you are likely to have PR, however some of your documents will now be with HO as you have applied for confirmation of PR.

Anyway getting confirmation of PR is helpful as, if confirmed, it confirms your settled status.
And a lower fee is at risk if any problem is identified & it is refused.
The PR application enjoys a right of appeal too (whereas an application for naturalisation does not).

Not sure what the lawyer was doing by advising to suppress evidence of wife as a BC. Sounds dodgy to me.

Best of British luck.

[noajthan]

Will bills on both names kids on my names and over 5000 pictures with family and friends on holiday and everywere proof durable relationship?

Yes it will all help but be selective over photos - no need for all 5000 .

See other details of evidence required in the document I posted above.

The evidence over the last 2 years is not so relevant as wife has been a BC since 2013;
HO won't treat her as an EEA national exercising treaty rights any more (even if she is still a dual-national).

So some lawyer talking about suppressing facts over past 2 years was talking nonsense as well as misadvising you;
good that you saw through that.

Note from your stated facts & timeline, the relevant period in which PR was acquired seems to be something like 2007/2008 --> 2013.
That's probably the period to focus on showing evidence for in connection with treaty rights; (ie work details of wife).
Of course no harm in showing evidence about your relationship up to the current date.

[soslana]

Hi, I can not thank you enough, maybe you should be my lawyer. As for WSR yes she has it from 2005 when she arrived in UK as without it she could not carry on working. So thats covered and yes this document is in HO as well already. My lawyer is deff dodgy for few reasons which I am not going to mention here. Now fingers crossed they wont refuse but if so at least I know which direction to head.

One quick question please, as we anly send all the documents for only last 5 years(lawyers idea) will British passport of my wife and son be enough proof of her PR? Or I shell contact lawyer and we send to HO additional proof (wage slips, bills, banks statments) from 2008 to 2010?

Many thanks
Soslana

[noajthan]

Hi, I can not thank you enough, maybe you should be my lawyer. As for WSR yes she has it from 2005 when she arrived in UK as without it she could not carry on working. So thats covered and yes this document is in HO as well already. My lawyer is deff dodgy for few reasons which I am not going to mention here. Now fingers crossed they wont refuse but if so at least I know which direction to head.

One quick question please, as we anly send all the documents for only last 5 years(lawyers idea) will British passport of my wife and son be enough proof of her PR? Or I shell contact lawyer and we send to HO additional proof (wage slips, bills, banks statments) from 2008 to 2010?

Many thanks
Soslana

Good that you have the WRS certificates.

A British passport is not really direct proof of PR (except that someone who has naturalised must have been settled &, for an EEA national, that means having PR).
It is actually a proof of a right of abode in UK but that is a different animal.

As PR appears to have been acquired over the earlier period then, yes, you should have supplied documentary evidence to support that period.

It has to be from a period when your wife was 'just' an EEA national as you are her dependent family member under EU rules.
That all ended at the time she was naturalised as a BC;
HO won't treat her as an EEA national anymore (ie since 2013) so you are no longer the dependent family member of an EEA national.

If lawyer insisted you sent evidence for only the past 5 years that includes 2 years when your wife was no longer an EEA national!
Your son's citizenship is not a factor here; you are applying on the basis of your wife's exercise of treaty rights in UK (as a qualified person) & that is the basis on which you have residency;
ie through her.
In your case, focusing on the past 5 years doesn't make sense for a confirmation of PR under EU rules.

You were the dependent family member of an EEA national up to 2013 - suggest that is the period to provide evidence for, (starting sometime in 2007 or 2008).

Hope it makes sense.

[soslana]

Hi again, yes it makes sense absolutly. Also just remembered that to get my residence card We had to proof to HO that we were together for at least 2 years so the HO has the records of us from 2007 to 2010 inc her working history, so will it be still nessesery? If yes I am going to see my lawyer immedietly.

Kind regards
Soslana

[noajthan]

Hi again, yes it makes sense absolutly. Also just remembered that to get my residence card We had to proof to HO that we were together for at least 2 years so the HO has the records of us from 2007 to 2010 inc her working history, so will it be still nessesery? If yes I am going to see my lawyer immedietly.

Kind regards
Soslana

Yes, HO have a 2-year rule in connection with unmarried relationships & checking they are 'durable'.
All that type of evidence (that you had before) will still apply & should obviously be part of this application as it will really help.

HO may or may not have your complete previous details on record (I don't know how efficiently they are stored or how long they may be kept).

They will almost certainly assess the application & evidence placed in front of them, case by case.
They will not piece it all together from past applications & figure out what it all means.

It is up to the applicant to provide the evidence to support their current application.
And if it is complicated it is advisable to include a cover letter to explain the situation & how it all fits together.

Good luck.

[soslana]

Thank you so much. I shell let you know the results which can take some time.

Kind regards

[soslana]

Good afternoon, quick update

Spoke with my lawyer and she said we just wait from HO to answer if they need additional papers or not.
When filling application she put my reference with HO which is how I got my RC. My wife also has naturalised first July 2013 and then Sep 2013 got the passport and both documents are sent to HO. Now its matter if person who will be dealing with application be looking to it more deeper or just as the evidence they have on table. I finaly got a hope

Many many thanks

[soslana]

Hi again, yes it makes sense absolutly. Also just remembered that to get my residence card We had to proof to HO that we were together for at least 2 years so the HO has the records of us from 2007 to 2010 inc her working history, so will it be still nessesery? If yes I am going to see my lawyer immedietly.

Kind regards
Soslana

Yes, HO have a 2-year rule in connection with unmarried relationships & checking they are 'durable'.
All that type of evidence (that you had before) will still apply & should obviously be part of this application as it will really help.

HO may or may not have your complete previous details on record (I don't know how efficiently they are stored or how long they may be kept).

They will almost certainly assess the application & evidence placed in front of them, case by case.
They will not piece it all together from past applications & figure out what it all means.

It is up to the applicant to provide the evidence to support their current application.
And if it is complicated it is advisable to include a cover letter to explain the situation & how it all fits together.

Good luck.

Good evening, the HO requested biometric checks at post office which I think is a positive start?

many thanks