English language test for UK settlement

[noajthan]

Someone/anyone applying to come to UK needs to get with the (Home Office) programme.

Be aware, in my experience at least, HO is not overly concerned about people's happiness nor too willing to make exceptions for 'special' cases that aren't actually that out of the ordinary.

The immigration rules are a reflection of current legislation and are publicised;
so it's just a case of comply & apply.

At the end of the day noone is forced to settle nor to take on the privilege of citizenship.

If you do wish to have a degree of freedom then shift your centre of life to EU, do Surinder Singh;
If you did return to UK later on it would then be as a proxy EEA national & not as a mere BC like the rest of us.

Your choice, it's horses for courses, but EU rules are somewhat less restrictive than UK immigration framework.

[noajthan]

I see an issue here as she will be effectively using a visit visa to reside, not visit.

Good catch.
I sense HO may spot that too.

[Casa]

@noajthan I've struggled over the last few days to explain the difference between a visitor visa and spouse settlement visa. I'll leave it to you to explain 'Surinder Singh' if asked. Good luck

[CR001]

@noajthan I've struggled over the last few days to explain the difference between a visitor visa and spouse settlement visa. I'll leave it to you to explain 'Surinder Singh' if asked. Good luck

+1

[ukthesis]

I heard about the Surinder Singh route but when I asked if it still operated, I was told the Home Office had closed that particular "loophole." I know there was a lot in the media about it, and the government was saying then that they were going to address the issue. If it's still available, I would be a little surprised.

If she can come here without being subject to the 90 days a year rule, that's great. But because this whole immigration rule issue is so complicated, I always make it a practice of trying to check out information.

I understand if people argue that she more or less wants it all, but I am simply trying to get the information to pass on. I'm not making a judgement abnout the UK immigration rules on residency, whether they are right or wrong. She simply wants the same information.

[Casa]

I heard about the Surinder Singh route but when I asked if it still operated, I was told the Home Office had closed that particular "loophole." I know there was a lot in the media about it, and the government was saying then that they were going to address the issue. If it's still available, I would be a little surprised.

If she can come here without being subject to the 90 days a year rule, that's great. But because this whole immigration rule issue is so complicated, I always make it a practice of trying to check out information.

I understand if people argue that she more or less wants it all, but I am simply trying to get the information to pass on. I'm not making a judgement abnout the UK immigration rules on residency, whether they are right or wrong. She simply wants the same information.

Prepare to be surprised! Surinder Singh route is still active. https://www.gov.uk/family-permit/surinder-singh
I think you may be approaching the wrong people for advice. As you now know, the '90 day absence rule' doesn't apply for Limited Leave to Remain or ILR.

[vinny]

If she can come here without being subject to the 90 days a year rule, that's great. But because this whole immigration rule issue is so complicated, I always make it a practice of trying to check out information.

Apart from this forum, the Government website should be your first port of call.

[ukthesis]

To cut to the chase. Do the replies I received refer to these two visas, that allow her to reside here without being subject to the 90 days residency rule?

Apply to join family living permanently in the UK (to get her into the UK in the first place)

https://www.gov.uk/join-family-in-uk/extend-your-visa

https://www.gov.uk/remain-in-uk-family/overview
(To have her stay here)

I always thought that if she applied for TLR and later for ILR (settlement) the 90 days rule will apply (ie that she could not be absent over 450 days from the UK over the 5 years period making, on average, 90 days a year).

So she can also apply for TLR and not be so limited?

Thanks again.

[vinny]

I always thought that if she applied for TLR and later for ILR (settlement) the 90 days rule will apply (ie that she could not be absent over 450 days from the UK over the 5 years period).

You are mixing up naturalisation requirements with ILR requirements.

However, note that naturalisation requires ILR in this case.

[CR001]

There is no '90 day residency rule' for limited leave to remain or ILR, in any visa category that I am aware of.

The 450 days is relevant for British citizenship applications. It can be 450 days in one go or 200 days in 2 different years.

I don't understand why you keep saying about the 90 day rule. It does not apply to the 'join family in the UK' or the subsequent extensions.

[ukthesis]

Thank you but can you lead me to websites that explain this difference between residency only visas and visas leading to citizenship, where the 90 days rule comes in. How the difference between just residing here (not subject to the 90 days rule) and the naturalisation route differ. I need to understand it through, in particular, UK government websites that I can read. Best.

[vinny]

I have already given you some links.

[Casa]

I have already given you some links.

@ukthesis perhaps you don't understand that you need to click on the underlined links in blue, as at present we just appear to be repeating information.

[ukthesis]

Apologies, I am just getting used to this technology.

So this is the situation, am I right?

She can come here initially on a joining a family member in the UK visa.

Later she applies for the staying with the family member visa. There are no UK residency rules attached to these two visas.

After that, if she wants to stay here longer, she applies for ultimate settlement status (TLR and later for ILR)? According to the rules you showed, at these two stages, while there are no hard and fast UK residency rules attached to them, immigration officials may query a case where the non-EEA citizen keeps returning to their home country for let's say 5 months in a year. In this situation, the rule that she must be living "permanantly" with me as my wife might be open to challenge.

If she specifically wants, at the end of the ILR and 5 years UK residency, to apply for UK citizenship, that 90 days rule then kicks in.

Is this correct please?

[Casa]

Apologies, I am just getting used to this technology.

So this is the situation, am I right?

She can come here initially on a joining a family member in the UK visa. Yes if you meet all the rules

Later she applies for the staying with the family member visa. There are no UK residency rules attached to these two visas. 2.5 years later - Further Leave to Remain = FLR(M). Evidence of finance and co-habitation required.

After that, if she wants to stay here longer, she applies for ultimate settlement status (TLR and later for ILR)? According to the rules you showed, at these two stages, while there are no hard and fast UK residency rules attached to them, immigration officials may query a case where the non-EEA citizen keeps returning to their home country for let's say 5 months in a year. In this situation, the rule that she must be living "permanantly" with me as my wife might be open to challenge. There is no category 'TLR. 2.5 years Limited Leave to Remain is what she applies for initially from Moldova. Further Leave to Remain after 2.5 years and ILR after 5 years.

If she specifically wants, at the end of the ILR and 5 years UK residency, to apply for UK citizenship, that 90 days rule then kicks in. Yes

Is this correct please?

[ukthesis]

Much thanks guys.

The "fixed" UK residence issue (90 days a year), as was stated, would only be a problem for citizenship. To a degree it may also be an issue in the settlement procedure if the immigration officers considered that she was away from the UK for an unreasonable period, their judgement depending on the circumstances as they were explained to them. But there is no fixed (90 days a year) residence criterion aside from for citizenship applications.

While I was researching this I came across references to the EEA Family Permit. What's this and would it be a good alternative to her going through the settlement procedure we've discussed? There is no fee for this permit, it says, and although it is valid for 6 months' stay in the UK, even in the event of overstaying there is normally no problem apparently.

Best again.

[CR001]

The EEA Family Permit is not relevant or applicable to a spouse of a British Citizen living in the UK as you cannot be 'exercising treaty rights' in your home country.

If you did the Surinder Singh route in another other EU state, then it would be applicable to return to the UK under the EEA route.

[ukthesis]

Much thanks for all the sage advice. Best wishes. Dave.

[ukthesis]

I just spoke on Skype to my wife in Moldova. This one is a very simple question but she is worried about giving them the wrong answer.

The Standard Visitor Visa online form. It asks her "Country of Nationality."

Now she was born in the Ukraine and she Ukrainian nationality. However the only passport she has is Moldovan. She also has Moldovan nationality. She she has dual Ukrainian and Moldovan nationality.

Which does she put down? Ukraine or Moldova? On the front page there is no space to write she has dual nationality. (Later in the form she can tell them that.) She can only choose one nationality on the front page of the form.

My own guess is she writes Moldova for her nationality, because she only has the Moldovan passport. And that happens to be where she now lives and it applying from. Is that your opinion?

Best.

[Casa]

I just spoke on Skype to my wife in Moldova. This one is a very simple question but she is worried about giving them the wrong answer.

The Standard Visitor Visa online form. It asks her "Country of Nationality."

Now she was born in the Ukraine and she Ukrainian nationality. However the only passport she has is Moldovan. She also has Moldovan nationality. She she has dual Ukrainian and Moldovan nationality.

Which does she put down? Ukraine or Moldova? On the front page there is no space to write she has dual nationality. (Later in the form she can tell them that.) She can only choose one nationality on the front page of the form.

My own guess is she writes Moldova for her nationality, because she only has the Moldovan passport. And that happens to be where she now lives and it applying from. Is that your opinion?

Best.

Moldovan, but she can mention the dual Ukraine/Moldova nationality later in the form. Do make sure that in the visa application she submits very strong documented evidence showing reasons to return to Moldova. When an applicant has a spouse living in the UK visitor visas come under a great deal of scrutiny.

[ukthesis]

I understand and as always thanks for getting the info so quickly to me. Because she has a full time job and a few other commiments in Moldova, this issue of her coming here on a visa has been trundling on since the summer.

I have explained t oher that if we need to be together here in the UK on some sort of temporary basis (ie in the case where she would need to later return to Moldova) she should initially come here by applying for the "join family living permanently in the UK Visa. How long does this last for?

Then if she still wants to remain for more time, she applies under the "applies to remain in the UK with family visa." How long can she use this for?

Then the Further Leave to Remain.

[Wanderer]

I just spoke on Skype to my wife in Moldova. This one is a very simple question but she is worried about giving them the wrong answer.

The Standard Visitor Visa online form. It asks her "Country of Nationality."

Now she was born in the Ukraine and she Ukrainian nationality. However the only passport she has is Moldovan. She also has Moldovan nationality. She she has dual Ukrainian and Moldovan nationality.

Which does she put down? Ukraine or Moldova? On the front page there is no space to write she has dual nationality. (Later in the form she can tell them that.) She can only choose one nationality on the front page of the form.

My own guess is she writes Moldova for her nationality, because she only has the Moldovan passport. And that happens to be where she now lives and it applying from. Is that your opinion?

Best.

AIUI, Ukraine does not permit dual nationality, so she'd have lost it on gaining Moldovan nationality..

[Casa]

I understand and as always thanks for getting the info so quickly to me. Because she has a full time job and a few other commiments in Moldova, this issue of her coming here on a visa has been trundling on since the summer.

I have explained t oher that if we need to be together here in the UK on some sort of temporary basis (ie in the case where she would need to later return to Moldova) she should initially come here by applying for the "join family living permanently in the UK Visa. How long does this last for?

Then if she still wants to remain for more time, she applies under the "applies to remain in the UK with family visa." How long can she use this for?

Then the Further Leave to Remain.

We've covered this so many times now!
If she wants to stay longer than 6 months she needs to apply for a Spouse settlement visa (join family). This will grant her an initial 2.5 year limited leave visa. After which she would apply for a further leave to remain on a 2.5 year extension - FLR(M) from within the UK.
At the end of the 5 year period she could apply for permanent residence - ILR.
Is that clear now?
At present I assumed you were asking for advice on a visitor visa application.

[Casa]

I just spoke on Skype to my wife in Moldova. This one is a very simple question but she is worried about giving them the wrong answer.

The Standard Visitor Visa online form. It asks her "Country of Nationality."

Now she was born in the Ukraine and she Ukrainian nationality. However the only passport she has is Moldovan. She also has Moldovan nationality. She she has dual Ukrainian and Moldovan nationality.

Which does she put down? Ukraine or Moldova? On the front page there is no space to write she has dual nationality. (Later in the form she can tell them that.) She can only choose one nationality on the front page of the form.

My own guess is she writes Moldova for her nationality, because she only has the Moldovan passport. And that happens to be where she now lives and it applying from. Is that your opinion?

Best.

AIUI, Ukraine does not permit dual nationality, so she'd have lost it on gaining Moldovan nationality..

Well spotted Wanderer +1

[ukthesis]

Can you please tell me where you got the information about her dual (or not dual) nationality? Best.