EU and NON EU registered NOT SAME SEX civil partners

[Perinaz]

Hi there.

I am hoping to find some info here as 2 solicitors said 2 very different thing.

I am a hungarian EU citizen and my partner is an Iranian national. We live in Hungary where he has a valid working permit until end of Dec 2015.
We have been in a relationship since May 2013 and we have been living together since July 2013. We have moved to a new place in 2014 Feb where we have been living until now and we can prove that with a flat contract. Unfortunately, the flat owner where we lived in from July 2013 until Feb 2014 had never ever given us a contract as she paid no tax on the rental,so we can not prove that however, we have an evidence as in July 2013 we made a comment and a timeline event on Facebook that we moved in together and we had regular messages between us on Facebook, where we were referring to our flat as a home, and when we need to pay the rent, etc.

I was offered a job in the UK what I would love to accept and he still has a valid tourist visa to UK till 1st of Dec and I am just wondering as I read it on the internet that with his visitor visa he would fly in with me and we would be able to change that visitor visa into a partner visa. Would Home Office accept for that period July 2013 to Feb 2014 copies of Facebook or letters from friends who can prove we were living together without a contract that time?

How seriously is Home Office regarding this 2 years living together period? We passed the 20th months, would we have a chance?
As this is a genuine relationship and we are planning to get married next summer, leaving him behind is not an option, but same time I was offered a position what would mean the top of my carrier.
We are a straight couple, and we are registered civil partners in Hungary since Feb 2015.

Any suggestions please?
Thank you!

[noajthan]

Hi there.

I am hoping to find some info here as 2 solicitors said 2 very different thing.

I am a hungarian EU citizen and my partner is an Iranian national. We live in Hungary where he has a valid working permit until end of Dec 2015.

...

We are a straight couple, and we are registered civil partners in Hungary since Feb 2015.

Any suggestions please?
Thank you!

Inadvisable to use a UK visit visa for such a purpose.
(Visitors are expected to visit then return 'home').

You should be operating under EU rules based on free movement & exercising treaty rights.

The appropriate route into UK is on a Family Permit (FP) - civil partners are included.
See https://www.gov.uk/family-permit/overview
- ref. eligibility link

Fees

An EEA family permit is free.

What it does

An EEA family permit makes it easier and quicker to enter the UK. You might not get a boarding pass and could experience major delays without one.

You may be refused entry into the UK if you don’t have an EEA family permit.

How long you can stay

An EEA family permit is valid for 6 months. You can leave and enter the UK as many times as you need within that time.

Stay after your EEA family permit expires

You can stay in the UK after your permit expires if you:

• are the family member of an EEA national

Documents you must provide (translated if not in English)

You must provide:

• a valid passport
  1 passport-sized colour photograph
  evidence of your relationship to your EEA family member, eg marriage certificate, civil partnership certificate, birth certificate (or proof that you’ve lived together for 2 years if unmarried)

& etc etc

After the initial 6 months, the non-EEA national (the dependent family member of an EEA national exercising treaty rights in UK) simply applies for a RC;
ie to confirm their right to live, work, study in UK for a period of 5 years.

Viva free movement.

[vinny]

They appear to be quite serious (23.5) about the 2 years cohabitation for unmarried partners.

[Obie]

But are they right to be strict on 2 year?

Is it the national law of the UK as interpreted by the courts?

[vinny]

Whereas the definition in Article 2.2 includes a spouse, it does not include an unmarried partner. The Directive provides that Member States by their own national legislation shall facilitate entry by a partner with whom the Union citizen has a durable relationship.

[Obie]

Whereas the definition in Article 2.2 includes a spouse, it does not include an unmarried partner. The Directive provides that Member States by their own national legislation shall facilitate entry by a partner with whom the Union citizen has a durable relationship.

That statements does not appear to contradict anything i said above, and my statement above is backed by YB and many other authority from the Upper Tribunal, which has found that 2 years requirement is not consistent with EU law.

Memberstates are required to undertake an extensive examination of the personal circumstances of a durable partner, this will not be possible, if the UK can refuse purely on the basis that a relationship has not endured for 2 years.

[Perinaz]

Guys thank you so much for the quick answer.

I understand the 2 years living together rule - we have been living together officially, what we can prove since Feb 2014 however we started living together since July 2013 but as I stated I can not prove that with a flat contract as the flat owner where we lived from July 2013 till Feb 2014 never ever gave a contract to us. However we have plenty friends who were in that property, close to us and can prove it with a letter. We might be able to show old phone bills that we used that address both as the phone bills came to that address. We can prove that our relationship is stable and genuine with tons of comments, pictures. Would Home Office consider that? Would they accept letters from friends who would be happy to state that we lived together?

He has a valid visitor visa to UK up to early Dec as my family lives in UK we go there for regular visits.
This is what I found on the visa site:

-Making your EEA Family Permit application
Non-EU family members must apply to a British Diplomatic Post overseas prior to travelling to the UK. Note that if you are already in the UK it is not necessary to return home to your country of lawful residence in order to obtain an EEA family permit. -

Am I wrong to believe that he can enter to UK using his visitor visa what is valid till 1st of Dec and applying for an unmarried partner visa in the UK?

[noajthan]

Guys thank you so much for the quick answer.

I understand the 2 years living together rule
...

He has a valid visitor visa to UK up to early Dec as my family lives in UK we go there for regular visits.
This is what I found on the visa site:

-Making your EEA Family Permit application
Non-EU family members must apply to a British Diplomatic Post overseas prior to travelling to the UK. Note that if you are already in the UK it is not necessary to return home to your country of lawful residence in order to obtain an EEA family permit. -

Am I wrong to believe that he can enter to UK using his visitor visa what is valid till 1st of Dec and applying for an unmarried partner visa in the UK?

You are missing the point about the FP.

By considering an immigration route based on getting an unmarried visa you are switching to the relatively restrictive UK Immigration Regulations; (pun not intended).

As an EEA national it makes more sense to stick to the EU route & manage your immigration journey under EU rules;
ie a path based on free movement & exercising treaty rights.

To do this, forget about the existing visitor visa you hold;
firstly shoot for a FP for your dependent family member (partner) to enter the UK.

As posted above, documents accepted by HO to process a FP application include a civil partnership document OR evidence of living together for 2 years, etc.
Take note of the 'or' clause.

So if, as you have stated, you already have a civil partnership registration document issued in Hungary, simply get it translated into English and submit the same as part of your FP application.

Then as Robert is your father's brother, Bob's your uncle! <-- obscure English humour;
(you will have to get used to that once in UK).

Once in UK, you exercise treaty rights (by simply working) & partner applies for a RC as a dependent family member of yours.

[noajthan]

Similar case about facilitating entry to UK:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... 96283.html

[Perinaz]

Thank you!

Yesterday I managed to talk to the Embassy here and I was told that even though we are registered as civil partners in Hungary it will not help as in UK only same sex can be registered.

Seems so hard but you guys are right, better to be on the safe side.

[vinny]

We are a straight couple, and we are registered civil partners in Hungary since Feb 2015.

Did you mean a civil marriage?

[Perinaz]

Hi Vinnie,

No, it is not a civil marriage it a registered civil partnership. In Hungary it is fully allowed to do that between a man and a woman. This form is registering the relationship is done by a notary who write a document which states that these 2 people are living under a roof, sharing their income, etc. When this paper is ready he needs to send this letter to the government for a registration. As a registered civil partner we have almost same rights as we would be married although we can not inherit. Weirdly, as I heard from an other couple who did that, in Ireland it is accepted and equal to a marriage.
We have done ours in Feb 2015.
I am not sure if UK would accept it tho.

[noajthan]

Thank you!

Yesterday I managed to talk to the Embassy here and I was told that even though we are registered as civil partners in Hungary it will not help as in UK only same sex can be registered.

Seems so hard but you guys are right, better to be on the safe side.

My understanding is it is the EU who fundamentally defines what is a 'civil partner'.

The Free Movement of Persons Directive (2004/38/EC) defines direct family members of an EEA national as their spouse, civil partner, child ...

For more information on direct family members, refer to Regulation 7 of the Immigration (EEA) Regulations 2006.

Ref HO guidance on EEA Family Permits:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 7_0ext.pdf
- it is an archive copy from 2014 but I cannot find a later version

A FP application is free of charge so where's the harm in applying on basis of a Hungarian civil partner.

The outcome will inform your next steps:
If issued then all good;
if refused, it will 'inform' you what further supporting information is required

[noajthan]

From http://www.eearegulations.co.uk/Archive/V20150406

Civil partner has the meaning given by Schedule 1 to the Interpretation Act 1978 (c. 30) as amended by paragraph 59 of Schedule 27 to the Civil Partnership Act 2004 (c. 33).

- See more at:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1978/30/contents

[PutiniEEA]

Hi there.

I am hoping to find some info here as 2 solicitors said 2 very different thing.

I am a hungarian EU citizen and my partner is an Iranian national. We live in Hungary where he has a valid working permit until end of Dec 2015.
We have been in a relationship since May 2013 and we have been living together since July 2013. We have moved to a new place in 2014 Feb where we have been living until now and we can prove that with a flat contract. Unfortunately, the flat owner where we lived in from July 2013 until Feb 2014 had never ever given us a contract as she paid no tax on the rental,so we can not prove that however, we have an evidence as in July 2013 we made a comment and a timeline event on Facebook that we moved in together and we had regular messages between us on Facebook, where we were referring to our flat as a home, and when we need to pay the rent, etc.

I was offered a job in the UK what I would love to accept and he still has a valid tourist visa to UK till 1st of Dec and I am just wondering as I read it on the internet that with his visitor visa he would fly in with me and we would be able to change that visitor visa into a partner visa. Would Home Office accept for that period July 2013 to Feb 2014 copies of Facebook or letters from friends who can prove we were living together without a contract that time?

How seriously is Home Office regarding this 2 years living together period? We passed the 20th months, would we have a chance?
As this is a genuine relationship and we are planning to get married next summer, leaving him behind is not an option, but same time I was offered a position what would mean the top of my carrier.
We are a straight couple, and we are registered civil partners in Hungary since Feb 2015.

Any suggestions please?
Thank you!

Two year cohabitation is not important

I will suggest you to apply

You will get it but try to provide strong evidence

Good luck

[noajthan]

Bingo - I think this is what you need...

From wikipedia, ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Par ... p_Act_2004

Schedule 20

Schedule 20 recognises certain overseas unions as equivalent to civil partnerships under the laws of the United Kingdom.

...

Schedule 20 is subject to adjustment, and additional overseas relationships may be added as more jurisdictions across the world bring in civil partnership or same-sex marriage legislation. On 5 December 2005, the original schedule of the 2004 act was amended to include several other countries and states.[5] On 31 January 2013, a further 50 types of overseas relationship were added to the schedule.[6][7]

Relationships not specified in the schedule may also recognised as civil partnerships if they meet the conditions of Section 214 of the Act, therefore many of the unions listed below as not listed in Schedule 20 may nonetheless be recognised.

Hungary: bejegyzett élettársi kapcsolat (registered partnership)

Hope it helps.

[Perinaz]

Guys,

Thank you so so much for all your help and support!
The best news ever!

Would that take 6 weeks or 15 working days for them to make a decision?

We are going for the family permit. Thank you!

[noajthan]

Guys,

Thank you so so much for all your help and support!
The best news ever!

Would that take 6 weeks or 15 working days for them to make a decision?

We are going for the family permit. Thank you!

Not sure how long it takes these days.
There's probably a timeline thread in the forum you could subscribe to to track other people's applications.

It will probably help the caseworker processing your FP application if you include a cover letter explaining your application in the context of Schedule 20 of the UK Civil Partnership Act, 2004

Suggest in immigration matters, as with other aspects of life, it's always prudent to take a 'belt & braces' approach.
So, to reduce the HO's wriggle room, submit any/all other relevant supporting evidence you have too.

[Perinaz]

Guys, would you mind please to take a look on this paper? This is what we have. Thank you
I just want to makes sure this is the right paper so next week we can apply for him for a family permit.

This writ is in full force and effect:
Budapest, on 20th February, 2015.

xxxxx notary
address

file number: xxxxxx

The acting notarysubstituate - in the registering process of common-law marriage declaration of XY and ZZ as Applicants into the common-low marriage declarations' registry - has issued the following -
WRIT
The notarysubstitute hereby registers the Applicants' declaration on the their common-law marriage under file number yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy with the Applicants' data into the Common - law Marriage Declarations' Registry, and registers the date data of common-law marriage under 12345 Registry Number, simultaneously to this writ on the 20th day of February, 2015.


Personal details of both:

Family name:
Maiden Family and given name:
Date of Place of Birth:
Mother's maiden family and given name:
Citizenship:
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Actual status of the common-law marriage: Common-law marriage exists

Registering the common-law marriage:
Date of Registry: on the 20th February 2015
Name and address of the registering notary: xxxxxxxxxxxx
Registry number of the registering write: xxx
Appeal against the writ can be filed within 15 days.
Appeal shall be address to the Metropolitan Tribunal and shall be filed to the acting notary in 3 copies.
Appeal is dutiable, appeal duty is 10.000 HUF.
Appeal has no suspensory effect to the registration into the Common-law Marriage Declaration's Registry.

JUSTIFICATION

Applicants requested mutually to register the data mentioned in the operative part to the Common-law Marriage Declaration's Registry. The request made by the applicants mutually complies to section 36/E paragraf (1) a, of Act XLV of 2008 on certain non-litigous notarial procedures (hereinafter: Kjnp) thus noratrysubstitute issued the writ in accordance with the operative part and the section 36/f

Dated in Budapest, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

More details and stamp of the notory.

[noajthan]

Guys, would you mind please to take a look on this paper? This is what we have. Thank you
I just want to makes sure this is the right paper so next week we can apply for him for a family permit.

This writ is in full force and effect:
Budapest, on 20th February, 2015.

xxxxx notary
address

file number: xxxxxx

The acting notarysubstituate - in the registering process of common-law marriage declaration of XY and ZZ as Applicants into the common-low marriage declarations' registry - has issued the following -
WRIT
The notarysubstitute hereby registers the Applicants' declaration on the their common-law marriage under file
...

What is the name of this type of document?

Is it a 'bejegyzett élettársi kapcsolat' (registered partnership)? (as that is what is recognised in Schedule 20 of the UK's CP Act)

[Perinaz]

Hi,
Thank you for your answer.
What you mentioned bejegyzett élettársi kapcsolat means registered civil partnership.
I believe what we have is that as it is stating in the letter:

The notarysubstitute hereby registers the Applicants' declaration on the their common-law marriage under file number yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy with the Applicants' data into the Common - law Marriage Declarations' Registry, and registers the date data of common-law marriage under 12345 Registry Number, simultaneously to this writ on the 20th day of February, 2015.

This document has no title, it is written as WRIT.

[Perinaz]

Guys, thank you again!

[noajthan]

Hi there, thank you so much for your quick reply.

The document has no name it is stated only as WRIT.

I believe it is a registered civil partners as it is written in it:

The notarysubstitute hereby registers the Applicants' declaration on the their common-law marriage under file number yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy with the Applicants' data into the Common - law Marriage Declarations' Registry, and registers the date data of common-law marriage under 12345 Registry Number, simultaneously to this writ on the 20th day of February, 2015.

It's going to be important to find out under which Hungarian law this writ was issued.

What you have seems to be a registration of a common law marriage.
It may not be the same as a civil partnership.

It might not be what is called a 'bejegyzett élettársi kapcsolat' because (again according to wikipedia) a proposal for such a law in Hungary (for any/all types of couples) was apparently declared unconstitutional.
It seems there is now only a law covering same-sex civil partnerships in Hungary.

The new registered partnership act took effect on 1 July 2009. Registered partnerships are only open to same-sex couples.

On 23 March 2010, the Constitutional Court ruled that the law is constitutional

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recogniti ... in_Hungary

Even if not accepted by HO as a 'civil partnerhip certificate' it is still useful evidence of your relationship.

[Perinaz]

Just read the law In Hungary for registering a relationship there are two ways:

1., for same - sex (bejegyzett elettarsi kapcsolat) - done by a registrar. It is a kind of marriage only for same sex couples. When they want to separate, court will separate them. Place: local registry office.

2., for opposite sex - common law marriage done by a notary. It is not as strong as a marriage and when they want to separate the notary will do the paperwork.

So basically what the link I was provided is for same-sex so based on our common law marriage we can not apply for a family permit for my Iranian partner.
What are the chances getting a family permit for him if we have this common law marriage and we have been living together for 20 months and we can prove that?

[noajthan]

Just read the law In Hungary for registering a relationship there are two ways:

1., for same - sex (bejegyzett elettarsi kapcsolat) - done by a registrar. It is a kind of marriage only for same sex couples. When they want to separate, court will separate them. Place: local registry office.

2., for opposite sex - common law marriage done by a notary. It is not as strong as a marriage and when they want to separate the notary will do the paperwork.

So basically what the link I was provided is for same-sex so based on our common law marriage we can not apply for a family permit for my Iranian partner.
What are the chances getting a family permit for him if we have this common law marriage and we have been living together for 20 months and we can prove that?

It's obviously disappointing but you have not really lost anything.

In the eyes of UK authorities you are not married so you are back on the path of demonstrating a durable relationship akin to marriage.
(Unless you can find a UK regulation that specifically recognises your Hungarian common-law document).

Anyway, the Hungarian common-law registration can only help your case.

You will need all the other supporting evidence too, financial & as much tenancy as possible.
How about utility bills, national &/or local tax documents, voter registration, doctor/medical registration, library membership & etc;
any/all papers & proofs that demonstrate living together over time, (preferably in the same place).

If you have 20 months of evidence then by the time your application is filed & processed it could be nearer 24 months.
Make as good a case as you can & apply.