Help Please ARE OVERSTAYERS BEING REFUSED spouse VISAS NOW?

[Docterror]

Your position can be either that people can become "illegal immigrants" without breaking the law or that they can't.

Hmmm..."You are either with us or against us."

You can't sit on the fence.

Actually, I can! I do not want the luxury of seeing everything as being either black or white. SOME can quite accidentally become illegal and as already pointed out in the past, I believe such cases should be seen on a case by case basis.

And... I did not mean my earlier post to mean you alone. Who knows, when all the chips are down, you might be one of the cases I support.

[OL7MAX]

Can people become illegal immigrants without breaking the law? You can believe the answer to be either Yes or No or don't know. But anyone saying they believe it and don't believe it ends up looking silly.

Actually, I can!

Nope, you can't. But if you cut and chop and reword my sentence to leave most of it out, then voila, you can! Otherwise, both ears to the ground is a physical impossibility. For normal people.

I'm waiting for this law you're digging up to prove your point i.e. when your stand was that I couldn't have been an illegal immigrant without breaking at least one law. I'll reproduce it for your convenience:

For many years I was an "illegal immigrant" who had never broken UK law.

The right way to state it is "For many years I was an "illegal immigrant" who had never broken any other UK law. "

While there are many ways I can think of in which one can become illegal, I will have a hard time believing that, that particular group is in majority. When the term is used, I do not have the blanket assumption that all broke the law, but rather the deliberate overstayers and illegal entrants that is being targetted.
_________________
Jabi

[tinux]

I am sorry but I disagree. We are talking about seperating families here, many with children involved. What harm does it do to let these people be together? None! In fact, this action is counter productive, as it will simply encourage people to stay here illegally instead of going home to get regularised, and then coming back legally, and possibly working and contributing to the economy. The government are forcing a large number of UK national children to be brought up without knoing one of their parents, and it is despicable. In some cases, people have been together for ten years and are being refused. In other cases, they have only overstayed by a matter of a few months. There is no need for the government to be so harsh, and it is purely evil of them to do this.

Victoria

Totally agree with you. there is no real data to prove the opposite. none whatsoever

[OL7MAX]

he government are forcing a large number of UK national children to be brought up without knoing one of their parents

That does sound a bit stupid, I'll admit, and not joined up government.

[Docterror]

Can people become illegal immigrants without breaking the law? You can believe the answer to be either Yes or No or don't know. But anyone saying they believe it and don't believe it ends up looking silly.

People could also become illegal accidentally and not all cases would present itself with ribbon tied up on it. To believe that it should, or give an ultimatum that someone should believe so, 'silly' would be mild way of putting such a notion. The question would be- Did they knowingly partake in such an action that would make them in breach of the law and was it due to circumstances beyond their control?

And fence does not disappear just because you do not see it.

Oh! And associating a physical impossibilty to a physical possibility in a sentence to obtain a negative response to both is just a debating technique that ran out of style decades ago. It will be like asking you "Do you still hold the Indian Passport that you had to kill you best mate for?" You are better than that!

[OL7MAX]

People could also become illegal accidentally

Good, I agree. But, using me as an example, you state that they can also not become illegal accidentally.

Feel free to change your mind and accept that I could have become "illegal" "accidentally". That, however slim the possibility, the possibility is there.

Then suddenly you'll start making sense. Possibly

[paulp]

I do not wish to add to the controversy. However, we have seen on the board and I know some people in real life for whom overstaying is a trivial matter that bears no second thought.

They rely on the discretion of caseworkers (for wp extensions, etc.) or the fact that overstay is not the sole reason for refusal of spouse visas (i.e. they can always get married to a brit).

Personally, I think the home office is shifting between extremes.

[sally12345]

I am sorry but I disagree. We are talking about seperating families here, many with children involved. What harm does it do to let these people be together? None! In fact, this action is counter productive, as it will simply encourage people to stay here illegally instead of going home to get regularised, and then coming back legally, and possibly working and contributing to the economy. The government are forcing a large number of UK national children to be brought up without knoing one of their parents, and it is despicable. In some cases, people have been together for ten years and are being refused. In other cases, they have only overstayed by a matter of a few months. There is no need for the government to be so harsh, and it is purely evil of them to do this.

Victoria

Thanks Victoria well said!! some people are just heartless! and have no idea of the pain and Gulit overstayers go through!

x

[vin123]

I agree. Overstaying used to be considered as a trivial matter especially with young immigrants below 30 and the HO/BIA had a very laidback attitude in tackling them. I think the situation is changing and of lately, there is a sense of urgency.

I will be really surprised to know if there is anyone out there overstayed without knowing his/her visa was expired - oh but then, how or why did he/she not forget to find a spouse and have kids, been living together for 3 years in the mean time - to make it easy for his immigration lawyer ?
In my view, this doesn't deserve to be justified unless there is a genuine reason and having family/kids for these touts should not become a "powwow joke" later after they gain a legal status for their stay.

The problem is, when you see the exceedingly high overstaying numbers, it generates vested interest in 3rd parties and commercial businesses to provide a "packaged solution" to people who exhibit this pattern in their "overstaying problem".
Hence we have people speaking in their favour, though the forum is faceless over surface, this is quiet understandable if it wins your own bread for the day!

[OL7MAX]

I will be really surprised to know if there is anyone out there overstayed without knowing his/her had visa expired

It happens to people all the time - from s*x slaves to cockle pickers to widows of soldiers to minor children of failed asylum seekers to people working in embassies whose government applies for visa extensions on their behalf.

Are you suggesting that people get married, have kids and live three years together just to help their case? You may not believe this but young people meet, fall in love and get married all the time - irrespective of their immigration status. Overstayers, whether accidental or intentional, are human - contrary to some opinions here - and not immune from feeling the need to form relationships/start a family. And, whatever you feel about what they've done, many of their kids are British citizens and these kids could face hardship, deprivation and a broken family - adding to Britain overall social costs.

I'm hoping someone takes this to a judicial review ...

[jimquk]

You do not have to have a "vested interest" in such cases to feel that the human consequences of such decisions are insupportable. If the government wants to stop overstaying, it needs to do so by intercepting them at a much earlier stage, not once they've got a family here. Stable door, anyone?

[VictoriaS]

The problem is, when you see the exceedingly high overstaying numbers, it generates vested interest in 3rd parties and commercial businesses to provide a "packaged solution" to people who exhibit this pattern in their "overstaying problem".
Hence we have people speaking in their favour, though the forum is faceless over surface, this is quiet understandable if it wins your own bread for the day!

If you are suggesting that I only have sympathy for overtsayers because of my job then you are very much mistaken. I think I have shown through the free advice I provide on this forum, and by the pro bono work I do, that this is not the case.

Victoria

[vin123]

I will be really surprised to know if there is anyone out there overstayed without knowing his/her had visa expired

It happens to people all the time - from s*x slaves to cockle pickers to widows of soldiers to minor children of failed asylum seekers to people working in embassies whose government applies for visa extensions on their behalf.

You trying to generalise my comments where there could be even a criminal aspect in abusing immigration system. My comments are not aimed one section or at a separate section or "such" communities who need support in general. I'm talking about "soul traders" coming here on a visa knowing that it "will expire" so as to exploit the system, get through and eventually beat the system being an overstayer. Those who need support, they are out of the equation anyway inside or outside the scope of immigration irrespective of their stay validity.

Are you suggesting that people get married, have kids and live three years together just to help their case? You may not believe this but young people meet, fall in love and get married all the time - irrespective of their immigration status. Overstayers, whether accidental or intentional, are human - contrary to some opinions here - and not immune from feeling the need to form relationships/start a family. And, whatever you feel about what they've done, many of their kids are British citizens and these kids could face hardship, deprivation and a broken family - adding to Britain overall social costs.
I'm hoping someone takes this to a judicial review ...

Once again, if you are deviating from the topic pointing at various humanitarian aspects of any civilian society. My point is, abusing a system and then "proving" (with the help of a solution) is like saying, hey Mr Govt, "I'm entitled to equal protection righst, so give me mine - get me my stay or make me legally here" does not hold any good. Those who abuse or intending to abuse, knowing that there is a "buyable solution" once you create this problem, sold by fantastic immigration law businesses and consultants should be plucked out and eliminated so that deserving ones get the right treatment. This is my point, Peace.

[OL7MAX]

You trying to generalise my comments where there could be even a criminal aspect in abusing immigration system. My comments are not aimed one section or at a separate section or "such" communities who need support in general. I

Er, when you say you'll be surprised if anyone overstayed unknowingly you are generalising. You are suggesting that everyone who overstayed did so knowingly.

If your comments are aimed at one section then don't look ignorant by wording it to look like it covers everybody. Which you keep doing again and again. Which you did with your assertion about all overstayers getting married to help their case.

When you have even a vague idea of what generalising means feel free to come back and attempt to give us all lessons in it.

[tinux]

overstayers are 100% better than us.
we work and pay taxes and we recieve help .
they work and pay taxes and in constant fear and recieve nothing whatsoever. even a basic thing like medical is taken away from them.
I have a great admiration for them.

[paulp]

overstayers are 100% better than us.
we work and pay taxes and we recieve help .
they work and pay taxes and in constant fear and recieve nothing whatsoever. even a basic thing like medical is taken away from them.
I have a great admiration for them.

I'm sure many overstayers pay their taxes. But there are also a lot of overstayers in the black economy who don't pay taxes.

[sally12345]

overstayers are 100% better than us.
we work and pay taxes and we recieve help .
they work and pay taxes and in constant fear and recieve nothing whatsoever. even a basic thing like medical is taken away from them.
I have a great admiration for them.

What people fail to realise is that overstayers are humans! For god sake! Not all overstayers intentionally do so to then marry to then get there visa’s what’s sense would there be in that?

From experience its nothing but pain and worry to be in this position! You want to do the right thing but the law prevents you on doing so. I.e. retuning to your homeland and then coming back.

If we are to label, overstayers have lives some work some don’t. however, in my case my husband to be is studying for a degree. He has worked as a mentor for young people engaged in crime voluntarily at our local youth centre. He is a committed church member never engaged in any form of criminal activity……

So not all overstayers are bad people I cant speak for all only myself! But all we want to do is legalise his status and if that means retuning home to marry where’s the harm in that?

[SYH]

What people fail to realise is that overstayers are humans! For god sake! Not all overstayers intentionally do so to then marry to then get there visa’s what’s sense would there be in that?
It just seems that happens a lot and the HO is tired of it.
From experience its nothing but pain and worry to be in this position! You want to do the right thing but the law prevents you on doing so. I.e. retuning to your homeland and then coming back.
What law prevents you from returning to your homeland. I don't see that.

If we are to label, overstayers have lives some work some don’t. however, in my case my husband to be is studying for a degree. He has worked as a mentor for young people engaged in crime voluntarily at our local youth centre. He is a committed church member never engaged in any form of criminal activity……
That's wonderful but the bottom line is he does not have permission to be in the country to do these great things.

So not all overstayers are bad people I cant speak for all only myself! But all we want to do is legalise his status and if that means retuning home to marry where’s the harm in that?

[paulp]

What people fail to realise is that overstayers are humans! For god sake! Not all overstayers intentionally do so to then marry to then get there visa’s what’s sense would there be in that?

……

So not all overstayers are bad people I cant speak for all only myself! But all we want to do is legalise his status and if that means retuning home to marry where’s the harm in that?

Sally, like I said before, I'm sure there are many decent overstayers like your husband. But there are also many who use spouse visas as a way of playing the system.

Actually, the way spouse visas used to disregard overstaying, it could be seen as offering a get-out-of-jail-free card to overtayers, however long they have overstayed, and actually encouraging it.

It's a shame that you and your husband are caught up in all the politics going on at the moment, specially the way all the policies are being tightened so much, so quickly.

[sally12345]

What people fail to realise is that overstayers are humans! For god sake! Not all overstayers intentionally do so to then marry to then get there visa’s what’s sense would there be in that?
It just seems that happens a lot and the HO is tired of it.
From experience its nothing but pain and worry to be in this position! You want to do the right thing but the law prevents you on doing so. I.e. retuning to your homeland and then coming back.
What law prevents you from returning to your homeland. I don't see that.

If we are to label, overstayers have lives some work some don’t. however, in my case my husband to be is studying for a degree. He has worked as a mentor for young people engaged in crime voluntarily at our local youth centre. He is a committed church member never engaged in any form of criminal activity……
That's wonderful but the bottom line is he does not have permission to be in the country to do these great things.

So not all overstayers are bad people I cant speak for all only myself! But all we want to do is legalise his status and if that means retuning home to marry where’s the harm in that?

Ok so here it goes the Home office are tired of overstayers yes! Are hey not tired of Traffickers murders rapists, drug dealers shootings etc….. The Home office are not tried they just want to exploit people and there families would it not make sense to legalises someone’s stay who can make an contribution to the economy system such as my husband to be? Who is on his way to gaining a Degree? And will have a good income.

There’s no real Law. When he is leaving I mean if he returns there are laws that will prevent him from coming back to join his family.

He may not be legal but throughout all this does it not show people that he is trying to better himself. With having qualifications to secure himself a good paid job? So he does to have t rely on Public funds! that’s what this country is about money!

I not trying to be funny I just want to share my experiences

“ you have to be in it to feel itâ€

[SYH]

[quote="sally12345"]
Ok so here it goes the Home office are tired of overstayers yes! Are hey not tired of Traffickers murders rapists, drug dealers shootings etc….. The Home office are not tried they just want to exploit people and there families would it not make sense to legalises someone’s stay who can make an contribution to the economy system such as my husband to be? Who is on his way to gaining a Degree? And will have a good income.

There’s no real Law. When he is leaving I mean if he returns there are laws that will prevent him from coming back to join his family.

He may not be legal but throughout all this does it not show people that he is trying to better himself. With having qualifications to secure himself a good paid job? So he does to have t rely on Public funds! that’s what this country is about money!

I not trying to be funny I just want to share my experiences

“ you have to be in it to feel itâ€

[sally12345]

[quote="SYH"][quote="sally12345"]
Ok so here it goes the Home office are tired of overstayers yes! Are hey not tired of Traffickers murders rapists, drug dealers shootings etc….. The Home office are not tried they just want to exploit people and there families would it not make sense to legalises someone’s stay who can make an contribution to the economy system such as my husband to be? Who is on his way to gaining a Degree? And will have a good income.

There’s no real Law. When he is leaving I mean if he returns there are laws that will prevent him from coming back to join his family.

He may not be legal but throughout all this does it not show people that he is trying to better himself. With having qualifications to secure himself a good paid job? So he does to have t rely on Public funds! that’s what this country is about money!

I not trying to be funny I just want to share my experiences

“ you have to be in it to feel itâ€

[sally12345]

[quote="sally12345"][quote="SYH"][quote="sally12345"]
Ok so here it goes the Home office are tired of overstayers yes! Are hey not tired of Traffickers murders rapists, drug dealers shootings etc….. The Home office are not tried they just want to exploit people and there families would it not make sense to legalises someone’s stay who can make an contribution to the economy system such as my husband to be? Who is on his way to gaining a Degree? And will have a good income.

There’s no real Law. When he is leaving I mean if he returns there are laws that will prevent him from coming back to join his family.

He may not be legal but throughout all this does it not show people that he is trying to better himself. With having qualifications to secure himself a good paid job? So he does to have t rely on Public funds! that’s what this country is about money!

I not trying to be funny I just want to share my experiences

“ you have to be in it to feel itâ€

[SYH]

I am not about to tell my life on this post! but in short we wanted to get married back in 2004 but my mum had a stoke and that prevented things of course! and then in 2005 you had the COA and of course we could not get married. And overstayers don’t rush to get married for a visa!
Well I don't want to know the details and I am sure there could be extenuating circumstances but it is what it is and you really can't complain if those are the rules, you just have to play the game
well that’s not our plan our pan is to be strong and love each other fight the case, and work hard! my partner has GNVQ NVQ AND city and Guilds etc all this was done whilst legal! the degree he is doing now as that was his wish to educate himself. So what?

what must he do sit down and do nothing or commit senseless crimes! or work hard to achieve a better life! I do understand your point and thank you but life is hard as a overstayer and everyone has, there reasons for such actions. I just wish I can turn back the clock but we cant so we move on and try and fight. We the strength I receive from God all will be ok.

I might add I am not taking anything away from you nor is my partner he dont claim or abuse the system! Well actually you have just not maybe to the point others have

[/quote]

In any case, I am not directing the point just at you specifically so you need not get overexcited by my point of view. Its just my observation that people all sudden feel the need to legitimize themselves after they get married or when they are ready to get married.
You kind of missed the point of what I was saying. I don't mean people get married in order to legitimize their status. Its just too late to think oh I want to be legal just at the point you want to get married. You waited too long to get your act together which is really what I am going with that observation.
You sound nice enough so I really don't have anything against you or think any less of you than others

[sally12345]

I am not about to tell my life on this post! but in short we wanted to get married back in 2004 but my mum had a stoke and that prevented things of course! and then in 2005 you had the COA and of course we could not get married. And overstayers don’t rush to get married for a visa!
Well I don't want to know the details and I am sure there could be extenuating circumstances but it is what it is and you really can't complain if those are the rules, you just have to play the game
well that’s not our plan our pan is to be strong and love each other fight the case, and work hard! my partner has GNVQ NVQ AND city and Guilds etc all this was done whilst legal! the degree he is doing now as that was his wish to educate himself. So what?

what must he do sit down and do nothing or commit senseless crimes! or work hard to achieve a better life! I do understand your point and thank you but life is hard as a overstayer and everyone has, there reasons for such actions. I just wish I can turn back the clock but we cant so we move on and try and fight. We the strength I receive from God all will be ok.

I might add I am not taking anything away from you nor is my partner he dont claim or abuse the system! Well actually you have just not maybe to the point others have

In any case, I am not directing the point just at you specifically so you need not get overexcited by my point of view. Its just my observation that people all sudden feel the need to legitimize themselves after they get married or when they are ready to get married.
You kind of missed the point of what I was saying. I don't mean people get married in order to legitimize their status. Its just too late to think oh I want to be legal just at the point you want to get married. You waited too long to get your act together which is really what I am going with that observation.
You sound nice enough so I really don't have anything against you or think any less of you than others
[/quote]
Thank you I must have misunderstood your point. My worry is what to do now! not what we should have done.. as that’s over and done with now! there is nothing we can do to turn back the clock. I am sure you would agree!

As I said before I wont go into detail about my case as that’s personal But what I will say is I will fight the case and go to court if I have to.

I don’t think that you have a personal attack on every overstayer your are stating your point and you are free to do so.

As I keep saying I just want to make things right for my family, I cant say anymore than I just want to live life, The right way and not having to watch our backs for years and years!